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Update on Dover ID trial
Posted: 03 October 2005 12:38 AM   [ Ignore ]  
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It is going well so far!

Sorry, clicked the wrong button.

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Posted: 03 October 2005 02:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]  
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Your link doesn’t work as a link. I think it would work if you take it out of the quote box.

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Posted: 03 October 2005 07:26 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]  
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You folks on the left and particularly in the science community are very “intolerant” of theories and ideas that are different than yours.

I mean, you folks like the idea of being able to kill a baby two minutes before it’s poor little head emerges from the womb. Another idea you folks like is to block any religious ideas, make that-Christian ideas, to enter the heads, minds, hearts, and souls of children. This even though it is well shown that children need the spiritual part in order to be a well rounded person while growing up. Matter of fact, that spiritual part is the only part that fully affects all areas of life for the duration of your life on this planet.

Therefore, I must speak out in boldness and proclaim from the highest mountain and the lowest valley that Jesus Christ is Lord and he will wash away your sins by acceptance of his work on the cross for you and for all mankind. I say, lets do the children right and teach them the tenats of Christianity so they might know at an early age that the wages of sin is death, but belief in Christ leads to life, and that more abundantly.

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Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light. Matt 11:28-29

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Posted: 03 October 2005 09:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]  
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[quote author=“TheChampion”]You folks on the left and particularly in the science community are very “intolerant” of theories and ideas that are different than yours.

As things stand, there are no bars to you and yours practicing any religion you choose. There are only barriers to injecting it into the common governmental entities that all Americans share, regardless of their religion or nonreligion. We only require that those institutions remain secular and not proselytize in spiritual matters.

Why do you feel it necessary to inject your own brand of religion into every corner of society and government? Why are you unwilling to accept secularism in any aspect of public life?

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Posted: 03 October 2005 10:21 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]  
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Correct, we still do have freedom of religion in this country. However, you folks on the left scare us Bulldog. We are fighting now because we believe the ultimate goal of your side is the elimination of the Almighty from the public square. Therefore, it is not so much as us interjecting our beliefs on the rest of society. It is us fighting tool and nail to keep what we got now, lest we lose it (talking things like 10 commandment recognition, and so forth).

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Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light. Matt 11:28-29

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Posted: 03 October 2005 11:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]  
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elimination of the Almighty from the public square


Damn right!!  Your invisable friend has absolutly no business in the public square!  If he belongs anywhere, it is in your churches.  Keep him there!

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Posted: 03 October 2005 11:28 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]  
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[quote author=“TC”]Good question Bulldog

Someone once told me that when someone says “That’s a good question”, it usually means they don’t have a good answer and this is no exception. You haven’t answered my question. Instead, you spout a bunch of BS about you being under attack, as though your religious views don’t permeate every aspect of our society. As though we don’t hear about your religio-political views every time we turn on the television. Eliminating god from the public square, my ass.

Television, radio, the internet and other media are the public square, not the government. Let me repeat that. The government is not the public square. The government is a public servant, not an echo chamber to validate your personal religious views or anyone else’s. Noone has suggested eliminating your god from the radio, the internet, television, newspapers or anything else that is in the public square. Furthermore, if anyone did attempt to do so, the very same people that you revile so much will be the first ones to come to your defense.

You aren’t being attacked by anyone. You are trying to usurp the people’s government for your god.

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Posted: 03 October 2005 03:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]  
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Yes, I mis-spoke after jumping to a conclusion that was not warranted.  The government is the public square, not the media, etc..

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Posted: 03 October 2005 04:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]  
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Sorry we secularists have made it so difficult for you to practice your religion.  Must be a real bitch going to church whenever you want, to any denomination you want, any day of the week you want, with all the barriers being thrown in your way. It must be really tough to help the poor without government funding your religious charity/program.  It must be really hard for you to remember the true meaning of Christmas without a nativity scene on the lawn of city hall or be law abiding without the ten commandments in the courthouse.  Oh yeah, if you have to find out about them there, it’s a little late; don’t you think.  As for killing babies with two minutes to go, that can only happen if the life of the mother is in danger.  Quit acting like there are a bunch of bloodthirsty liberals out there just waiting to kill children.  We’re trying to strike a difficult balance between two tough calls.  You give all the rights to the unborn, and the consequences be damned.  Again, show me where Jesus says a thing about this.  Sometimes life is grey.  Get used to it.  And quit complaining about abortions.  Don’t like it, don’t have one.  Don’t like gay marriage, don’t marry one.  If you really follow the ten commandments, then you should be willing to pay the biblical penalty; which is death to every one of them.  Post that in your fucking courthouse!  I’ve got to go and keep some Christians from going to church, helping the poor, and turning off their TVs.  It’s the only way to win the culture war!

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Can an omnipotent God create a rock that even he can’t lift?

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Posted: 03 October 2005 04:58 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]  
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HEE HEEEEEEE   LOL

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Posted: 03 October 2005 10:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]  
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good post bulldog…

we should frame that

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Posted: 04 October 2005 01:47 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]  
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[quote author=“TheChampion”]You folks on the left.

I’m not on the left, but I’m also against teaching “the talking snake theory” in science classes.

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Posted: 05 October 2005 02:31 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]  
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The PA ACLU has set up a blog for the trial.  You can even download transcripts.

 

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Posted: 14 October 2005 08:37 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]  
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This online reprint of an article from Natural History magazine (April, 2002) seems a good starting point for those interested in the debate.

 

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Posted: 17 October 2005 10:39 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]  
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[quote author=“pcrane”]This online reprint of an article from Natural History magazine (April, 2002) seems a good starting point for those interested in the debate.

Welcome pcrane.

I read on a previous post that you are a former prof.

Perhaps you can answer a question that has fascinated me about academic honesty and the power that dogma has over a mind.  I’m sure that you have heard about the 400 scientist who have signed the Discovery Institutes’ manifesto entitled “Scientific Dissent From Darwinism.” Most of the names on the list are not life scientists, but there are about four dozen notable exceptions who certainly have a deep understanding of biology and evolution.

I understand that there is no such thing as a sound argument from authority, but some of the names on the list are notable for their accomplishments in biochemistry and biology. I have difficulty parsing this apparent conflict between obvious facts and the education of the person making the claim. I realize that the declaration is basically a vapid political manifesto, but many of these scientist are staking their academic reputation on this treatise. I disagree with them on rational grounds, but I certainly respect them for having the courage to stand up to the establishment. We in the secular world could all learn a lesson.

These scientist are truly frightening to me. My horror is that education may not be the answer. In fact, academic and political freedom may eventually lose to religion. Many of these scientist are intellectually committed to toppling evolution. Have you ever run into colleagues who really believe this stuff on an intellectual level?

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Posted: 17 October 2005 11:03 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]  
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[quote author=“Salerio”][quote author=“pcrane”]This online reprint of an article from Natural History magazine (April, 2002) seems a good starting point for those interested in the debate.

Welcome pcrane.

I read on a previous post that you are a former prof.

Perhaps you can answer a question that has fascinated me about academic honesty and the power that dogma has over a mind.  I’m sure that you have heard about the 400 scientist who have signed the Discovery Institutes’ manifesto entitled “Scientific Dissent From Darwinism.” Most of the names on the list are not life scientists, but there are about four dozen notable exceptions who certainly have a deep understanding of biology and evolution.

I understand that there is no such thing as a sound argument from authority, but some of the names on the list are notable for their accomplishments in biochemistry and biology. I have difficulty parsing this apparent conflict between obvious facts and the education of the person making the claim. I realize that the declaration is basically a vapid political manifesto, but many of these scientist are staking their academic reputation on this treatise. I disagree with them on rational grounds, but I certainly respect them for having the courage to stand up to the establishment. We in the secular world could all learn a lesson.

These scientist are truly frightening to me. My horror is that education may not be the answer. In fact, academic and political freedom may eventually lose to religion. Many of these scientist are intellectually committed to toppling evolution. Have you ever run into colleagues who really believe this stuff on an intellectual level?

Salerio -

I am not now and never have been an academic of any kind.  Which I regret.  I am a lawyer, and regret that also.

I know only what little I have so far read about the Evolution/Intelligent Design issue, but I am trying to catch up quickly.

This article looks interesting and it appears to address some of the issues you raise.

http://www.aaup.org/publications/Academe/2005/05jf/05jfforr.htm

We should both read it and then compare notes.

Paul Crane

P.S.—Where can I get the list of 400?

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