Sam Harris

Carstonio - 06 December 2007 12:46 PM

mcalpine - 06 December 2007 06:14 AM

So despite what Carstonio says about “reasonable” atheists, there are indeed modern objections.

I assumed Eaton Shirdlu’s “publicly sanctioned” comment was about symbols on government property, involving a specific First Amendment issue, and not about symbols in general. Eaton, was that the case?

Precisely.

mcalpine - 06 December 2007 05:55 AM

“People who have grown used to the perks of cultural hegemony will find it difficult to give them up.”

Why would they have to give them up?

Evolution. Consider for a moment the historical examples of Soviet Russia (and before them, the Tsars), South African whites, slave owners of the American Confederacy. Consider the Incas, Imperial Rome, the French monarchy,  and, of course, the trilobites, who ruled the sea floor for tens of millions of years.

The commandment against erecting graven images (i.e., substituting “false gods”) indicates only that Yahweh is jealous. Most of the ill fortune that befell “His” people is a result of “His” wrath against them for violating that commandment.

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Carstonio - 06 December 2007 12:43 PM

The Nativity does not resemble anything offensive. Plus, the idea behind large-scale crucifixes is troubling - the idea that people should feel guilty over the suffering of Jesus.

I agree.  Tonight, I drove past some homes with impressive and beautiful light displays.  I slowed down to view one, and as my eyes beheld different colored lights in she shape of stars and a nativity scene, I noticed the THREE RED CROSSES in the middle of it all.  WTF???  Do they have to push their faith in suffering and death being the way to life?  As if people would see the nativity scene and think, “Huh, I wonder whatever happened to that baby Jesus when he grew up.”  *sigh*

Most of the Christmas symbols here are very generic, so it’s not much of an issue.  Of course, my house is full of statues and pictures of the “Holy Family” and various saints.  Funny how well Catholics can rationalize the whole statue thing, saint worship, etc.  “I’m not worshiping Mary!  Sure, I kneel before her statue, light candles before her statues, pray to ask her intersession with her son, and call her the Mediatrix of all graces, and Co-Redemptrix - but I don’t consider her a goddess!”  Me thinks she doth protest too much.  (Speaking of myself, of course, in the days when I was so defensive of idolatry accusations.)  Even though Catholicism is more predominant in the Southern US now, you still won’t see any Catholic statues in the front yard like you do in areas of the North.  I think so many years of vandalism and violence as a result of people finding out you were Catholic just put a damper on that practice.

i’ve had enough of seeing shitty litle plastic nativity scenes in my local shopping centres.

I went through several public, supposedly secular primary schools where i was expected to sing christian songs (not just at christmas)Christmas usually involved a christian pagant and dress ups. Failture parcipate would result in someone getting chastised and labelled ‘naughty’ or obstructive, ruining it for everyone else etc….. The worst thing is, most of us didn’t even know they were religous songs. We just sung them like the obedient hitler youth types we were.

this is outrageous!

Joel Armstrong - 07 December 2007 03:09 AM

I don’t like the religious symbols because I don’t like the terrible effect that religion has had upon the world, therefore I see no reason to be tolerant of the symbols in public.  They should be condemned, like many things related to religion. 

People have a right to put the symbols in their businesses or on their property, but I also have the right to be critical the irrational ideas that these symbols represent.  Confronting religious expression in public is essential to the The War on Religion, though I try to do it politely.

Joel :

I usually agree with what you say but not so much this time. As I see it,people aren’t likely to give up thier religion Maybe that may happen in the distant future, but not anytime soon. Sooo- if sybols of a religion ARE displayed , let that religion be christianity !

DEE

why not put monuments of great community leaders, philosophers and humanitarians up instead? Everybody loves a good buddha statue, stick a red hat with a pom pom on if you must.

Christianity can blow me, I’m tired of seeing images which represent human torture ie the crucifix Its not healthy for a society whose aim should be non-violence

Bill Hicks said Christians totally missed the point by wearing crosses to remember Jesus.

RIP Bill Hicks. We could do with him around these days.

Occam’s Razor writes:
Bill Hicks said Christians totally missed the point by wearing crosses to remember Jesus.
RIP Bill Hicks. We could do with him around these days.

So true.  Hicks, comic genus that he was, continued: “it’s like wearing a rifle pendent around your neck to remember JFK… Do you think if Jesus ever did come back he’d want to see another cross again?!?!”

I sure miss him too Occam.  …Bill Hicks that is.

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