Help Me Help My Homeschooled Children
Posted: 08 November 2005 12:47 PM   [ Ignore ]  
Newbie
Rank
Total Posts:  2
Joined  2005-11-07

I found this forum last night; this is the first time I've posted anywhere…I am a divorced father of two teenagers. They are being homeschooled by their fundie Mom and stepdad. Tonight, they had a "science" book purporting to support creationism by examining the salinity of the oceans and postulating a "young-earth" (<1 million yrs.) The "science" book was written by a Dr. Jay Wile.

My fifteen year-old and I got into an argument and she is upset. Can any teachers out there give me a few pointers on where to begin deprogramming? And who the hell is Dr. Jay Wile?

Thanks.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 08 November 2005 04:47 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]  
Member
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  300
Joined  2005-07-05

Try the NCSE or National Center for Science Education.  Just Google it.  It will get you started with debunking all that creationist bullshit.  They also have lots of great links that will help you spread the word of reason and rational thought!

 Signature 

Can an omnipotent God create a rock that even he can’t lift?

Profile
 
 
Posted: 08 November 2005 05:22 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]  
Member
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  300
Joined  2005-07-05

I just googled Dr. Jay Wile’s name and he comes up a few times as the author of the homeschool curriculum Apologia.  I checked out one of his biology text books and it appears, at first, to be a simple sciednce textbook, except when you keep reading, he just inserts God as the creator of all things and warns of the dangers of trusting in science alone to explain the universe.  Same old creationist crapola.  How does one prove via the scientific method that there is a God and how the hell does one claim to know what this entity wants for us if we can’t prove it exists in the first place.  There is no way science can prove or disprove the existence of God.  What science can tell us is how the universe seems to work.  Sometimes in very general ways and other times, more specifically.  For instance, we don’t know every detail of how gravity works, but we know that everything that goes up must come down, eventually!

 Signature 

Can an omnipotent God create a rock that even he can’t lift?

Profile
 
 
Posted: 08 November 2005 07:26 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]  
Member
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  901
Joined  2005-02-23

This link should help with the salinity issue.

Talkorigins.org is, in general, a great resource for anyone who is going to be going up against fundamentalist creation claims.

Welcome to the forum, and good luck.

-Matt

Profile
 
 
Posted: 09 November 2005 01:54 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]  
Member
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  635
Joined  2005-02-06

Please sit down with your kids and watch the Idea City 05 video that is under Appearances on this web site. It’s a great place to start in an appeal to reason, and even a great conversation starter for friends who may be inclined to think about the impact of their beliefs on today’s world.

Good luck, Rod

Profile
 
 
Posted: 10 November 2005 04:03 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]  
Member
Avatar
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  707
Joined  2005-05-16

I was raised a Fundamentalist Christian and half of my family still is.  Two things fundies will hear in church most, how they (and all of humanity) deserves to go to hell, and that they are moral superior and smarter then everyone who disagrees with them.  They believe they are humble when they are really arrogant and elitist.  Arguing about creationism won’t be enough; you must attack fundamentalism by attacking morals the Bible, its writers and the actions of their god.  Reading the works of the great agnostic Robert Ingersoll would be a good start.  He was a civil war hero, anti-slavery activist and a believer in gender and racial equity.  He saw rightly, that the bible supported racism, slavery, mistreatment of women and ethnic cleansing.  Just read Numbers 31:1-18 where god orders ethnic cleansing, the murder of young boys and turning virgin girls into war booty. (And how did god’s chosen people know who the virgins were? Fingerbanging?) To here a fundie justify this, is like listening to a western communist justify the actions of Stalin, or Nazi officers during the Nuremberg trails claim they were not reasonable, since they were just following orders.  When a person can except it’s was morally right at one time to kill young boys and to rape young girls, they have no right to claim moral superiority.  You must knock the fundie off his pedestal by kicking him between the testaments.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 10 November 2005 12:19 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]  
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  3166
Joined  2005-04-25

unhumble, I mean, why not allow the children to make up their own mind. They have you as an influence and they have other influences. As long as those influences are not destructive, you should all those little minds to percolate and see what they want to believe.

You risk them not wanting to spend time with you if you force your believe on them. So do yourself a favor, give em a break!

 Signature 

Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light. Matt 11:28-29

Profile
 
 
Posted: 10 November 2005 06:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]  
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1229
Joined  2004-12-22

you might try gentle awakening…

instead of going head to head with a teenager, which is useless, I remember when I was one….

Go with Biblical Scholarship…something fundies avoid….

I would suggest to Make up with your daughter you buy here National Geographics series….The Science of the Bible..

This series doesnt not argue against Christianity in any way or form, however it asks questions, questions that would probably make fundies uncomfortable but not totally enraged.  Questions that if they take root, would at the very least move her from fundie to more liberal Christian.

Another series you might find helpful to start her thinking would be the History’s channel recent Crusaders series….again, not at all anti-Christian, but very interesting for all that.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 11 November 2005 05:05 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]  
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  3166
Joined  2005-04-25

Iisbliss, I have no problem with Bible Scholarship, rather I encourage it! However, I think there are better “series” out there than National Geographic. Unhumble’s kids might catch wind of the fact that NG is neither for or against.

Unhumble, simply go to your local Christian bookstore and tell them your dilemma. They should be able to point out a good series suited to their age. I think they will admire your courage. Believe me, they know where you stand and they know how difficult it will be for you to do this. But they will love you for it and that is what you want.

As to their future, I can only say that with the state of the church being so lukewarm and so into prosperity and everything else besides evanglelism and personal sacrifice, with the state of television so perverse, with the state of the movie and entertainment business so gratitutiously sexual, with societal moral values being what they are, chances are real good your kids will reject God and be atheists.

(we Christians have our work cut out for us but most of us are not even doing the work, we’re emulating the world and are beset with the cares of this world, how can we reach the lost and shine the light of Christ if we do not step out in faith and try?????)

 Signature 

Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light. Matt 11:28-29

Profile
 
 
Posted: 11 November 2005 12:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]  
Newbie
Rank
Total Posts:  25
Joined  2005-11-05

See, this so called “SIN” is one of many replacement words that the church uses, only this one is for human nature!!!

Look up Hypothalmus smile

Anyways, I love these words!!!

as quoted from TheChampion:

“As to their future, I can only say that with the state of the church being so lukewarm and so into prosperity and everything else besides evanglelism and personal sacrifice, with the state of television so perverse, with the state of the movie and entertainment business so gratitutiously sexual, with societal moral values being what they are, chances are real good your kids will reject God and be atheists. “

BEAUTIFUL!!!!!!

The End of Faith is NIGH!!!!

People are seeing threw the churches BS.  With our new pope we will see him cave more to us as well, because that’s what popes do.  THEY ONLY DO WHAT KEEPS THE CHURCH GOING!!!!  Every other church soon follows suit, including yours my delusional friend.

BTW, unhumble, great name.  Also, that huge run-on sentence should bring you a lot of comfort.

I too use to be a member of a Xtian church, HUMBLE to the most holy Liar.  I soon realized that the demons my mom talked of I could not see.  That she just associated whatever SHE didn’t like demons.  It’s called demonizing.

In all truth, TheChampion was made to fill uncomfortable with this world by the church and the church tells him how he can do his small part to make the world more comfortable for him.  TILL THERE IS NO INDIVIDUALITY!!!  NO CREATIVITY!!!  ONLY ONE TRUTH!!!

matt

BTW, uhhhhh, look at my signature.  Find a nifty way of bringing up tithing and tell them that instead of giving your 10 percent to the church, you’ve decided to give it to them cause they are real and you can hug them.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 11 November 2005 05:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]  
Newbie
Rank
Total Posts:  2
Joined  2005-11-07

Champion,

You replied to my distress call:


[quote author=“TheChampion”]unhumble, I mean, why not allow the children to make up their own mind. They have you as an influence and they have other influences. As long as those influences are not destructive, you should all those little minds to percolate and see what they want to believe.

You risk them not wanting to spend time with you if you force your believe on them. So do yourself a favor, give em a break!

I consider “fundie” influence to be destructive. I want my kids to practice critical thinking and be able to make wise choices. Choices that won’t let them drive planes into buildings. World views that promise eternal paradise such as those practiced by your kind frighten me. Those sorts of views tend, in my view, to encourage “ends justify means” types of ethics. My reward is not in heaven.

To all others in who responded to my original post, thank you. Every suggestion has been taken, or is in the process thereof. Sam’s book is on order. (I found him excerpted in Buzzflash.com)

Enjoying the forum…

Profile
 
 
Posted: 02 December 2005 10:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]  
Jr. Member
RankRank
Total Posts:  64
Joined  2005-12-02

Do you have an European or Canadian grandparent? Is there any way for you to legally move to another country and take your kids with you? Maybe the solution is getting your kids away from their mom, for good… The kind of brainwashing fundies put children through is downright damaging psychologically and often hard to undo. Make no mistake, fundamentalist Christianity is a cult! A dangerous cult, Jim Jones was Christian fundamentalist and he received awards in California for sponsoring racial harmony and helping the poor, look where it ended up: Jonestown massacre. I can’t suggest you kidnap your kids and move to another country, but try doing it legally and soon. There are some countries outside of Canada and Europe you could go to like New Zealand, Australia, Singapore, Japan that have similar standards of living as the US. Others that have high standards of living include Costa Rica and South Korea and Chile.
I have dual citizenship and if my wife pulled a prank on me like that, I know exactly where I’d go. Good luck my fried.

Profile
 
 
   
 
 
RSS 2.0     Atom Feed