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The Problem of Islam
Posted: 15 August 2008 10:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 121 ]  
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lindajean - 16 August 2008 12:26 AM
Jack Shooter - 16 August 2008 12:08 AM

So what?  Is your babbling trying to suggest that it was not possible for a female to menstruate by age 9 years old?  That assertion is contrary to the evidence.  Moron.

Jack, whether one 9 year old or 10,000 nine year olds began to menstruate at that age is irrelevant. The point being (once again) is that condoning such an act (sex with her) by today’s standard is barbaric and will land you in prison.  Unless of course you live in antiquated tribal community that is dictated by Sharia law. Because we know through the work of science, neurology and psychology that a 9 year old girl is not developmentally able to make consensual decisions and reason as adults do.  Just as she is not developmentally able to make decisions about driving a car safely, entering into a legal contract or voting. A nine year old child is exactly that and even on the rare occasion one might be menstruating, we would not call her a 9 year old “woman.”  Because, you see Jack, there is a BIG difference between a “girl” and a “woman” and quite obviously, you have no idea what that actually is.

Don’t you ever get tired of convincing yourself of such BS?  Seriously, what scientific or medical journal have you read that has shown that “9 year old girl is not developmentally able to make consensual decisions and reason as adults do.”

If you want to say that something is wrong according to today’s standards (loose standards I might add), thats fine, but don’t try to support your baseless assumptions with the force of science.  That’s dishonest.

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Posted: 15 August 2008 10:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 122 ]  
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lindajean - 16 August 2008 12:33 AM
Jack Shooter - 16 August 2008 12:12 AM

Your definition of a civilized world is confused.  You have no sense of the way things ought to be with respect to morality, and you even admit this yourself.  So please spare me the talk about what constitutes civilization.

My definition is no different than the dictionary’s

which includes:

... cultured, cultivated, refined, polished, sophisticated; enlightened, educated, advanced, developed.

Any culture that condones raping a 9 year old (through marriage) is not any of these.

Cornered by solid arguments against you, like an animal with no way out, you resort to hostile behavior, more accurately, hostile words.  Were you to have the breadth of reasoning, you wouldn’t fall back on your cry of rape, seeing how a 9 year old is biologically ready to have sex, and there is no reason in nature or otherwise, in which she should be deemed incapable of giving consent.  Your argument is finished.

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Posted: 16 August 2008 05:02 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 123 ]  
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It’s fascinatingly scary to see a post
written by a grown man in the year 2008,
defending the “right” to fuck 9 year old children.

The mere fact that Old Man Mo up in the sky,
was sexually turned on by a small child,
sufficiently to get an erection
sort of tells what kind of guy he was.

Does it turn you on Jack?
After all; Mo in his infallible wisdom
gives you the guidance on how to live
you life in every detail.

[ Edited: 16 August 2008 05:13 AM by Bongobongo Smith]
 Signature 

Christian psychopaty:

Bruce Burleson
“.Tell me why it is wrong to rape, steal and kill….
…If I am a slaveholder in Alabama in 1860, why shouldn’t I enslave the niggers, fuck their women, and whip their children when they disobey me????
I’ll tell you why, and it is the ONLY reason why
..”

..he fears gods punishment.

Christians per definition has no moral.
They are governed by fear and fear only.

..and they don’t mind using the N-word.

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Posted: 16 August 2008 10:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 124 ]  
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Jack Shooter - 16 August 2008 12:25 AM
arildno - 01 August 2008 07:13 PM

Since unbelievers are, per definition, WORSE than murderers in Islam, it follows that in Islamic thinking, unbelievers are not innocent, and hence up for chops.
Again, Jack is practicing taqiyyah.

Liar.  If what you say is true, show us any such ruling from any book of jurisprudence from any school of Islamic thought.  It’s easy to misquote the Qur’an based on your ignorance, but show us where your ignorant claims are supported by Islamic law itself.

Well, as one example, the simple fact that, within sharia, polytheists under the domination of Muslims are faced with the choice either to be converted or killed brings this out quite clearly..

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Posted: 16 August 2008 10:31 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 125 ]  
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bongobongo - 16 August 2008 09:02 AM

It’s fascinatingly scary to see a post
written by a grown man in the year 2008,
defending the “right” to fuck 9 year old children.

The mere fact that Old Man Mo up in the sky,
was sexually turned on by a small child,
sufficiently to get an erection
sort of tells what kind of guy he was.

Does it turn you on Jack?
After all; Mo in his infallible wisdom
gives you the guidance on how to live
you life in every detail.

Unfortunately, our society has not yet morally progressed to the point that Jack Shooter’s vile self-condemnations automatically resulted in his castration and life incarceration.

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Posted: 16 August 2008 12:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 126 ]  
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Jackshooter
Don’t you ever get tired of convincing yourself…..


No, never.  I never get tired of taking ignorance down a notch..

Seriously, what scientific or medical journal have you read that has shown that “9 year old girl is not developmentally able to make consensual decisions and reason as adults do.”

If you want to say that something is wrong according to today’s standards (loose standards I might add), thats fine, but don’t try to support your baseless assumptions with the force of science.  That’s dishonest.

There is nothing dishonest about this….

http://www.choices-az.org/resources/brain_development/


Teen Brain Development

Dr. Jay Giedd, chief of brain imaging in the child psychiatry branch at the National Institute of Mental Health, has spent more than 13 years performing MRIs and studying the brains of more than 1,800 kids. Through high-powered MRI technology, he has discovered that the adolescent brain, while fully grown in size, is still a long way from maturity.

Long after the size of the brain is established, it continues to undergo major stages of development. One of the last regions of the brain to mature is the pre-frontal cortex—home of the so-called “executive” functions—planning, setting priorities, organizing thoughts, suppressing impulses and weighing the consequences of one’s actions. This means the part of the brain young people need the most to develop good judgment and decision-making develops last!

This “under construction” nature of the adolescent brain helps explain why teenagers act they way they do, and why their behavior can be idealistic, energetic or enthusiastic at one moment, and cynical, lethargic and bored the next. At age 16, their bodies may look fully developed, but the minds are very much still in the development phase.

According to new studies, the pre-frontal cortex usually does not reach a level of genuine maturity until someone reaches their mid-twenties! “It’s sort of unfair to expect [teens] to have adult levels of organizational skills or decision-making before their brains are finished being built,” says Giedd.

Imagine that, Jack. Your brain was not fully developed until you were in your 20’s.  We can conclude from brain research that NO 9 year old girl has a fully developed and functioning, mature brain.  Having sex with a 9 year old is no different than having sex with a 7 year old.

So much for trying to support my “baseless assumptions with the force of science.”

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“Every war is a war against children.”
Howard Zinn

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Posted: 17 August 2008 04:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 127 ]  
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bongobongo - 16 August 2008 09:02 AM

It’s fascinatingly scary to see a post
written by a grown man in the year 2008,
defending the “right” to fuck 9 year old children.

The mere fact that Old Man Mo up in the sky,
was sexually turned on by a small child,
sufficiently to get an erection
sort of tells what kind of guy he was.

Does it turn you on Jack?
After all; Mo in his infallible wisdom
gives you the guidance on how to live
you life in every detail.


...and does it turn you on
to cause physical harm to a 9 year old child.
Well, old Mo did just that,
just before he raped her:


Hadish Book 004, Number 2126/2127:

  ‘A’isha reported (that whenever it was her turn for Allah’s Messenger [may peace be upon him] to spend the night with her) he would blah blah blah….
.....He said: Was it the darkness (of your shadow) that I saw in front of me? I said: Yes. He struck me on the chest which caused me pain, and then said: Did you think that Allah and His Apostle would deal unjustly with you?
...”

 Signature 

Christian psychopaty:

Bruce Burleson
“.Tell me why it is wrong to rape, steal and kill….
…If I am a slaveholder in Alabama in 1860, why shouldn’t I enslave the niggers, fuck their women, and whip their children when they disobey me????
I’ll tell you why, and it is the ONLY reason why
..”

..he fears gods punishment.

Christians per definition has no moral.
They are governed by fear and fear only.

..and they don’t mind using the N-word.

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Posted: 17 August 2008 10:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 128 ]  
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The quran does implicit say it’s OK to
marry (and therefore have sex with) girls
who haven’t yet reached puberty:

Quran 65:4 (instructing on the duration a Muslim female has to wait before marrying again)

“...And (as for) those of your women who have despaired of menstruation, if you have a doubt, their prescribed time shall be three months, and of those too who have not had their courses(*); and (as for) the pregnant women, their prescribed time is that they lay down their burden; and whoever is careful of (his duty to) Allah He will make easy for him his affair...”


(*)“Not menstruated yet” ( ???? ???????? ).


.

[ Edited: 17 August 2008 10:23 AM by Bongobongo Smith]
 Signature 

Christian psychopaty:

Bruce Burleson
“.Tell me why it is wrong to rape, steal and kill….
…If I am a slaveholder in Alabama in 1860, why shouldn’t I enslave the niggers, fuck their women, and whip their children when they disobey me????
I’ll tell you why, and it is the ONLY reason why
..”

..he fears gods punishment.

Christians per definition has no moral.
They are governed by fear and fear only.

..and they don’t mind using the N-word.

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Posted: 17 August 2008 05:16 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 129 ]  
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arildno - 16 August 2008 02:30 PM
Jack Shooter - 16 August 2008 12:25 AM
arildno - 01 August 2008 07:13 PM

Since unbelievers are, per definition, WORSE than murderers in Islam, it follows that in Islamic thinking, unbelievers are not innocent, and hence up for chops.
Again, Jack is practicing taqiyyah.

Liar.  If what you say is true, show us any such ruling from any book of jurisprudence from any school of Islamic thought.  It’s easy to misquote the Qur’an based on your ignorance, but show us where your ignorant claims are supported by Islamic law itself.

Well, as one example, the simple fact that, within sharia, polytheists under the domination of Muslims are faced with the choice either to be converted or killed brings this out quite clearly..

Again, I say:

Liar.  If what you say is true, show us any such ruling from any book of jurisprudence from any school of Islamic thought.  It’s easy to misquote the Qur’an based on your ignorance, but show us where your ignorant claims are supported by Islamic law itself.

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Posted: 17 August 2008 07:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 130 ]  
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lindajean - 16 August 2008 04:03 PM

Jackshooter
Don’t you ever get tired of convincing yourself…..


No, never.  I never get tired of taking ignorance down a notch..

Seriously, what scientific or medical journal have you read that has shown that “9 year old girl is not developmentally able to make consensual decisions and reason as adults do.”

If you want to say that something is wrong according to today’s standards (loose standards I might add), thats fine, but don’t try to support your baseless assumptions with the force of science.  That’s dishonest.

There is nothing dishonest about this….

http://www.choices-az.org/resources/brain_development/


Teen Brain Development

Dr. Jay Giedd, chief of brain imaging in the child psychiatry branch at the National Institute of Mental Health, has spent more than 13 years performing MRIs and studying the brains of more than 1,800 kids. Through high-powered MRI technology, he has discovered that the adolescent brain, while fully grown in size, is still a long way from maturity.

Long after the size of the brain is established, it continues to undergo major stages of development. One of the last regions of the brain to mature is the pre-frontal cortex—home of the so-called “executive” functions—planning, setting priorities, organizing thoughts, suppressing impulses and weighing the consequences of one’s actions. This means the part of the brain young people need the most to develop good judgment and decision-making develops last!

This “under construction” nature of the adolescent brain helps explain why teenagers act they way they do, and why their behavior can be idealistic, energetic or enthusiastic at one moment, and cynical, lethargic and bored the next. At age 16, their bodies may look fully developed, but the minds are very much still in the development phase.

According to new studies, the pre-frontal cortex usually does not reach a level of genuine maturity until someone reaches their mid-twenties! “It’s sort of unfair to expect [teens] to have adult levels of organizational skills or decision-making before their brains are finished being built,” says Giedd.

Imagine that, Jack. Your brain was not fully developed until you were in your 20’s.  We can conclude from brain research that NO 9 year old girl has a fully developed and functioning, mature brain.  Having sex with a 9 year old is no different than having sex with a 7 year old.

So much for trying to support my “baseless assumptions with the force of science.”

Actually, you can’t conclude any such thing because, regrettably, even according to the researcher you site, we cannot say that the differences in brain structure cause differences in brain function.

Hence, again, all you are doing is trying to use the force of science, unsuccessfully I might add, to support the myth or BS you try to convince yourself of - that adolescents are somehow incapable of responsibility and accountability.

Simple observation tells us that adolescents (which are actually adults according to Islam) can be as capable if not more capable than adults.  Hence, the lack of distinction.  If only you knew the mind of Aisha (may God be pleased with her).  Indeed, you will be hard pressed to find any female in all of human history enjoying the same level of scholarship that Aisha (may God be pleased with her) had, if you only cared to study her life.  I challenge you to.

Anyway, please review the following article that also takes into consideration Giedd’s work. 

http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:NVsCSp-XBOcJ:drrobertepstein.com/pdf/Epstein - THE MYTH OF THE TEEN BRAIN - Scientific American Mind - 4-8-07.pdf+myth+of+teenage+brain&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=ca

From the article,

Research I conducted with Dumas shows, for example, that teens are as competent or virtually as competent as adults across a wide range of adult abilities. And long-standing studies of intelligence, perceptual abilities and memory function show that teens are in many instances far superior to adults.

Fortunately, we also know from extensive research both in the U.S. and elsewhere that when we treat teens like adults, they almost immediately rise to the challenge. We need to replace the myth of the immature teen brain with a frank look at capable and savvy teens in history, at teens in other cultures and at the truly extraordinary potential of our own
young people today.

And, taken from, http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/teenbrain/work/adolescent.html

Cautionary Words

Jay Giedd and his colleagues have given us a new window into understanding how the pre-adolescent brain develops. It confirms what other neuroscientists have outlined over the past 25 years—that different parts of the brain mature at different times. In particular, it corroborates the work of neuroscientists like Peter Huttenlocher who have shown that the frontal cortex of human beings matures relatively late in a child’s life.

However, knowing more about the structure of the brain does not necessarily tell us more about the function of the brain. It is a good hypothesis that if a particular structure is still immature, the functions it governs will show immaturity. Thus, there is fairly widespread agreement that adolescents take more risks at least partly because they have an immature frontal cortex, because this is the area of the brain that takes a second look at something and reasons about a particular behavior. However, moving from structure to function, deciding what behavior is caused by what part of the brain is much more complicated.

Jack Shonkoff, professor of child development at Brandeis University and author of From Neurons to Neighborhoods, warns policymakers to be careful about interpreting the findings of neuroscientists too simplistically. In his interview with FRONTLINE, Shonkoff says, “The caution is really to be careful about what’s not quite ready for prime time yet in terms of application.”

John Bruer, the author of The Myth of the First Three Years and the president of the James S. McDonnell Foundation, is more blunt. Says Bruer: “This simple, popular, newsweekly-magazine idea that adolescents are difficult because their frontal lobes aren’t mature is one we should be very cautious of. Yes, there are adolescents that are hard to get along with. There are adults that are hard to get along with for the same reason. Presumably, the adults have mature frontal areas. There are very young children who seem to have no problem with this. Very immature brain structure, yet results in very sophisticated behavior. So this notion there’s going to be some easy connection between counting synapses or measuring white matter and the kinds of behaviors people display or we want them to display is one we’re going to have to do a lot more work on before it’s science.”

Despite the caveats about how much we can know about brain function and how readily any of this work can be translated into policy, it is clear from the research that the brain is a good deal more plastic or changeable than we once thought. Important structural changes are taking place well into adolescence and beyond. Except for a few well-defined sensitive periods for certain types of vision, hearing, and first-language learning, the brain is capable of growth well beyond the first few years of life. An important part of the growth is happening just before puberty and well into adolescence. The brain research adds new dimensions to our understanding of adolescence—a time of both heightened opportunity and risk.

So again, your conclusions about adolescence are premature, if you will, from a scientific perspective.  In other words, your understanding of age, like gender and other social constructs I am sure, is superfically and artifically constructed.  But nice try though.

[ Edited: 17 August 2008 08:23 PM by Jack Shooter]
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Posted: 18 August 2008 09:13 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 131 ]  
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bongobongo - 17 August 2008 02:18 PM

The quran does implicit say it’s OK to
marry (and therefore have sex with) girls
who haven’t yet reached puberty:

Quran 65:4 (instructing on the duration a Muslim female has to wait before marrying again)

“...And (as for) those of your women who have despaired of menstruation, if you have a doubt, their prescribed time shall be three months, and of those too who have not had their courses(*); and (as for) the pregnant women, their prescribed time is that they lay down their burden; and whoever is careful of (his duty to) Allah He will make easy for him his affair...”


(*)“Not menstruated yet” ( ???? ???????? ).


.

So I take it that Jack agree with his friend up in the sky
that it’s OK to have sex with a pre-puberty child.
...well; anything at any age as long as it had a vagina.

 Signature 

Christian psychopaty:

Bruce Burleson
“.Tell me why it is wrong to rape, steal and kill….
…If I am a slaveholder in Alabama in 1860, why shouldn’t I enslave the niggers, fuck their women, and whip their children when they disobey me????
I’ll tell you why, and it is the ONLY reason why
..”

..he fears gods punishment.

Christians per definition has no moral.
They are governed by fear and fear only.

..and they don’t mind using the N-word.

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Posted: 18 August 2008 08:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 132 ]  
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bongobongo - 17 August 2008 08:49 AM
bongobongo - 16 August 2008 09:02 AM

It’s fascinatingly scary to see a post
written by a grown man in the year 2008,
defending the “right” to fuck 9 year old children.

The mere fact that Old Man Mo up in the sky,
was sexually turned on by a small child,
sufficiently to get an erection
sort of tells what kind of guy he was.

Does it turn you on Jack?
After all; Mo in his infallible wisdom
gives you the guidance on how to live
you life in every detail.


...and does it turn you on
to cause physical harm to a 9 year old child.
Well, old Mo did just that,
just before he raped her:


Hadish Book 004, Number 2126/2127:

  ‘A’isha reported (that whenever it was her turn for Allah’s Messenger [may peace be upon him] to spend the night with her) he would blah blah blah….
.....He said: Was it the darkness (of your shadow) that I saw in front of me? I said: Yes. He struck me on the chest which caused me pain, and then said: Did you think that Allah and His Apostle would deal unjustly with you?
...”

What?  What exactly are you trying to quote here?  Please cite the entire hadith, its context.  Idiot.

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Posted: 18 August 2008 08:19 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 133 ]  
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bongobongo - 17 August 2008 02:18 PM

The quran does implicit say it’s OK to
marry (and therefore have sex with) girls
who haven’t yet reached puberty:

Quran 65:4 (instructing on the duration a Muslim female has to wait before marrying again)

“...And (as for) those of your women who have despaired of menstruation, if you have a doubt, their prescribed time shall be three months, and of those too who have not had their courses(*); and (as for) the pregnant women, their prescribed time is that they lay down their burden; and whoever is careful of (his duty to) Allah He will make easy for him his affair...”


(*)“Not menstruated yet” ( ???? ???????? ).


.

“The quran does implicit say it’s OK to
marry (and therefore have sex with) girls
who haven’t yet reached puberty:”

What?  What are you smoking now?  Come again please.  Please tell me how the Qur’an “implicit say it’s OK to marry (and therefore have sex with) girls who haven’t yet reached puberty”.

What do you have against the waiting period before remarrying?

Let me close by saying that, given the nonsense you have posted here yet again, you’re (spelt it right just for you this time) proving to be a first class idiot.  And that’s putting it kindly.

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Posted: 19 August 2008 03:53 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 134 ]  
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Jack Shooter - 19 August 2008 12:19 AM
bongobongo - 17 August 2008 02:18 PM

The quran does implicit say it’s OK to
marry (and therefore have sex with) girls
who haven’t yet reached puberty:

Quran 65:4 (instructing on the duration a Muslim female has to wait before marrying again)

“...And (as for) those of your women who have despaired of menstruation, if you have a doubt, their prescribed time shall be three months, and of those too who have not had their courses(*); and (as for) the pregnant women, their prescribed time is that they lay down their burden; and whoever is careful of (his duty to) Allah He will make easy for him his affair...”


(*)“Not menstruated yet” ( ???? ???????? ).


.

“The quran does implicit say it’s OK to
marry (and therefore have sex with) girls
who haven’t yet reached puberty:”

What?  What are you smoking now?  Come again please.  Please tell me how the Qur’an “implicit say it’s OK to marry (and therefore have sex with) girls who haven’t yet reached puberty”.

What do you have against the waiting period before remarrying?

Let me close by saying that, given the nonsense you have posted here yet again, you’re (spelt it right just for you this time) proving to be a first class idiot.

First class ?...geez, thanks!

And that’s putting it kindly.

Thank you for your kindness.


As the quran gives instructions on
the rules for re-marrying pre-puberty girls
it’s not that hard to understand that
marriage is allowed for pre-puberty girls.
(Girls that have not menstruated yet” ( ???? ???????? )

..is it?

OK let me help you then.
Sahih hadith explains the verse by Muhammad himself:


??????? ?? ???? , ???? ????? ????? ???? ??? ?????? ) ? ??? ??? ??? ?? ?????? ??? ?????? ????


“and those who never had menses, their prescribed period is three months before puberty, which indicates that giving her into marriage before puberty is permissible.”

From: Hadith in arabic

[ Edited: 19 August 2008 03:59 AM by Bongobongo Smith]
 Signature 

Christian psychopaty:

Bruce Burleson
“.Tell me why it is wrong to rape, steal and kill….
…If I am a slaveholder in Alabama in 1860, why shouldn’t I enslave the niggers, fuck their women, and whip their children when they disobey me????
I’ll tell you why, and it is the ONLY reason why
..”

..he fears gods punishment.

Christians per definition has no moral.
They are governed by fear and fear only.

..and they don’t mind using the N-word.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 20 August 2008 03:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 135 ]  
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bongobongo - 19 August 2008 07:53 AM
Jack Shooter - 19 August 2008 12:19 AM
bongobongo - 17 August 2008 02:18 PM

The quran does implicit say it’s OK to
marry (and therefore have sex with) girls
who haven’t yet reached puberty:

Quran 65:4 (instructing on the duration a Muslim female has to wait before marrying again)

“...And (as for) those of your women who have despaired of menstruation, if you have a doubt, their prescribed time shall be three months, and of those too who have not had their courses(*); and (as for) the pregnant women, their prescribed time is that they lay down their burden; and whoever is careful of (his duty to) Allah He will make easy for him his affair...”


(*)“Not menstruated yet” ( ???? ???????? ).


.

“The quran does implicit say it’s OK to
marry (and therefore have sex with) girls
who haven’t yet reached puberty:”

What?  What are you smoking now?  Come again please.  Please tell me how the Qur’an “implicit say it’s OK to marry (and therefore have sex with) girls who haven’t yet reached puberty”.

What do you have against the waiting period before remarrying?

Let me close by saying that, given the nonsense you have posted here yet again, you’re (spelt it right just for you this time) proving to be a first class idiot.

First class ?...geez, thanks!

And that’s putting it kindly.

Thank you for your kindness.


As the quran gives instructions on
the rules for re-marrying pre-puberty girls
it’s not that hard to understand that
marriage is allowed for pre-puberty girls.
(Girls that have not menstruated yet” ( ???? ???????? )

..is it?

OK let me help you then.
Sahih hadith explains the verse by Muhammad himself:


??????? ?? ???? , ???? ????? ????? ???? ??? ?????? ) ? ??? ??? ??? ?? ?????? ??? ?????? ????


“and those who never had menses, their prescribed period is three months before puberty, which indicates that giving her into marriage before puberty is permissible.”

From: Hadith in arabic

I have no idea how you are interpreting those verses about menstruation, and I don’t think you do either.

Now, there is no debate about whether a prebuscent girl can be given by her guardian for marriage, moron.  Everyone knows the Prophet (peace be upon him) married Aisha (may God be pleased with her) when she was six years old.  But the marriage was not consumated until she was nine years old, when she had reached puberty.  The question is why wait 3 years?

Again, my idiot friend, the question is about having sex with a prebuscent girl.  You can’t find any evidence suggesting that Islam allows this.

Carry on.

[ Edited: 20 August 2008 03:15 PM by Jack Shooter]
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