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6
The Problem of Islam
Posted: 06 July 2008 04:54 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 76 ]  
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Jack Shooter - 04 July 2008 10:17 PM
arildno - 04 July 2008 07:10 PM

Since the goal of defending, and spreading, Islam is MANDATORY for all Muslims within the traditional, and still dominant theology, it follows it is permissible for Muslims to lie whenever the “interests of Islam” is threatened, for example if the image of Islam among unbelievers is deemed “too negative” by Muslims.

Some such as yourself and Wot clearly deem the image of the Prophet’s (peace be upon him) marriage to Aisha (God be pleased with her) and his various battles as ‘too negative’, and yet no Muslim denies these.  Instead, we just point out the absurdities of your mindset.

Jack
Would you care to make a direct and definitive response to arildno’s statement?

Again:

Islam is MANDATORY for all Muslims within the traditional, and still dominant theology, it follows it is permissible for Muslims to lie whenever the “interests of Islam” is threatened, for example if the image of Islam among unbelievers is deemed “too negative” by Muslims.

Since Islam is mandatory for all Muslims, is it permissible for Muslims to lie whenever the interests and image of Islam is threatened? Yes or no please, and give credible support.

Wassail
Wot

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Posted: 06 July 2008 09:45 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 77 ]  
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Wotansson - 06 July 2008 08:54 PM
Jack Shooter - 04 July 2008 10:17 PM
arildno - 04 July 2008 07:10 PM

Since the goal of defending, and spreading, Islam is MANDATORY for all Muslims within the traditional, and still dominant theology, it follows it is permissible for Muslims to lie whenever the “interests of Islam” is threatened, for example if the image of Islam among unbelievers is deemed “too negative” by Muslims.

Some such as yourself and Wot clearly deem the image of the Prophet’s (peace be upon him) marriage to Aisha (God be pleased with her) and his various battles as ‘too negative’, and yet no Muslim denies these.  Instead, we just point out the absurdities of your mindset.

Jack
Would you care to make a direct and definitive response to arildno’s statement?

Again:

Islam is MANDATORY for all Muslims within the traditional, and still dominant theology, it follows it is permissible for Muslims to lie whenever the “interests of Islam” is threatened, for example if the image of Islam among unbelievers is deemed “too negative” by Muslims.

Since Islam is mandatory for all Muslims, is it permissible for Muslims to lie whenever the interests and image of Islam is threatened? Yes or no please, and give credible support.

Wassail
Wot

No.  Anyway, I don’t know what you mean exactly by ‘interests and image of Islam’.  I already told you that Islam has nothing to hide about its teachings, you should know that by now if you have been following my posts.  http://www.livingislam.org/fiqhi/fiqha_e86.html

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Posted: 07 July 2008 04:05 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 78 ]  
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Jack Shooter - 07 July 2008 01:45 AM
Wotansson - 06 July 2008 08:54 PM
Jack Shooter - 04 July 2008 10:17 PM
arildno - 04 July 2008 07:10 PM

Since the goal of defending, and spreading, Islam is MANDATORY for all Muslims within the traditional, and still dominant theology, it follows it is permissible for Muslims to lie whenever the “interests of Islam” is threatened, for example if the image of Islam among unbelievers is deemed “too negative” by Muslims.

Some such as yourself and Wot clearly deem the image of the Prophet’s (peace be upon him) marriage to Aisha (God be pleased with her) and his various battles as ‘too negative’, and yet no Muslim denies these.  Instead, we just point out the absurdities of your mindset.

Jack
Would you care to make a direct and definitive response to arildno’s statement?

Again:

Islam is MANDATORY for all Muslims within the traditional, and still dominant theology, it follows it is permissible for Muslims to lie whenever the “interests of Islam” is threatened, for example if the image of Islam among unbelievers is deemed “too negative” by Muslims.

Since Islam is mandatory for all Muslims, is it permissible for Muslims to lie whenever the interests and image of Islam is threatened? Yes or no please, and give credible support.

Wassail
Wot

No.  Anyway, I don’t know what you mean exactly by ‘interests and image of Islam’.  I already told you that Islam has nothing to hide about its teachings, you should know that by now if you have been following my posts.  http://www.livingislam.org/fiqhi/fiqha_e86.html


No? I think you have a very keen sense of the image and interests of Islam since this is the topic of virtually all your posts. I am afraid that your refusal places you in the category of…well..Taqiyyah-practicing liars.


Wassail
Wot

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Posted: 08 July 2008 12:52 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 79 ]  
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The problem with Islam is that it’s nuttier than a PAYDAY candy bar.

Don’t let it gain strength in the world ! It is a killer of all things the free world holds dear. Free societies should be aware of it’s movement and agression.

And why make a complicated thing of it ? It’s simple : Sane people should wake up to the force and reality of Islam—-and be prepared to deal with it . Wake up ! A monster is preying -don’t let it eat Democracy !

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Posted: 08 July 2008 05:53 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 80 ]  
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Dee - 08 July 2008 04:52 AM

The problem with Islam is that it’s nuttier than a PAYDAY candy bar.

Don’t let it gain strength in the world ! It is a killer of all things the free world holds dear. Free societies should be aware of it’s movement and agression.

And why make a complicated thing of it ? It’s simple : Sane people should wake up to the force and reality of Islam—-and be prepared to deal with it . Wake up ! A monster is preying -don’t let it eat Democracy !

Haha.  You sound pretty pathetic.  Unfortunately, I think most sane people would recognize that your plea for them to ‘wake up’ is actually a desparate call to ignorance.  Good luck with that anyway.

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Posted: 08 July 2008 05:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 81 ]  
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Wotansson - 07 July 2008 08:05 AM
Jack Shooter - 07 July 2008 01:45 AM
Wotansson - 06 July 2008 08:54 PM
Jack Shooter - 04 July 2008 10:17 PM
arildno - 04 July 2008 07:10 PM

Since the goal of defending, and spreading, Islam is MANDATORY for all Muslims within the traditional, and still dominant theology, it follows it is permissible for Muslims to lie whenever the “interests of Islam” is threatened, for example if the image of Islam among unbelievers is deemed “too negative” by Muslims.

Some such as yourself and Wot clearly deem the image of the Prophet’s (peace be upon him) marriage to Aisha (God be pleased with her) and his various battles as ‘too negative’, and yet no Muslim denies these.  Instead, we just point out the absurdities of your mindset.

Jack
Would you care to make a direct and definitive response to arildno’s statement?

Again:

Islam is MANDATORY for all Muslims within the traditional, and still dominant theology, it follows it is permissible for Muslims to lie whenever the “interests of Islam” is threatened, for example if the image of Islam among unbelievers is deemed “too negative” by Muslims.

Since Islam is mandatory for all Muslims, is it permissible for Muslims to lie whenever the interests and image of Islam is threatened? Yes or no please, and give credible support.

Wassail
Wot

No.  Anyway, I don’t know what you mean exactly by ‘interests and image of Islam’.  I already told you that Islam has nothing to hide about its teachings, you should know that by now if you have been following my posts.  http://www.livingislam.org/fiqhi/fiqha_e86.html


No? I think you have a very keen sense of the image and interests of Islam since this is the topic of virtually all your posts. I am afraid that your refusal places you in the category of…well..Taqiyyah-practicing liars.


Wassail
Wot

When and where have I lied about Islam?  Please tell me.  Incidentally, you suggesting that I have been lying to make Islam ‘look good’ shows that you find something good about what I have been saying concerning Islam.  All that is left is for you to find out whether I have been lying as you say I have, so please go ahead an advise me once you find out.

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Posted: 09 July 2008 01:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 82 ]  
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Jack Shooter - 08 July 2008 09:53 PM
Dee - 08 July 2008 04:52 AM

The problem with Islam is that it’s nuttier than a PAYDAY candy bar.

Don’t let it gain strength in the world ! It is a killer of all things the free world holds dear. Free societies should be aware of it’s movement and agression.

And why make a complicated thing of it ? It’s simple : Sane people should wake up to the force and reality of Islam—-and be prepared to deal with it . Wake up ! A monster is preying -don’t let it eat Democracy !

Haha.  You sound pretty pathetic.  Unfortunately, I think most sane people would recognize that your plea for them to ‘wake up’ is actually a desparate call to ignorance.  Good luck with that anyway.

I meant sane compared to Islam and Islamists . Let me reword that there are many sane people who are ignorant about Islam; it’s religious principles, rules, and unified efforts to impose them. This is 2008; a modern advanced society compared to Islam. Islam still wallows in the past , and hasn’t changed to a better and more humane religion as most of the other religions of the past have. They have gained perspective with and time has brought them some wisdom. Islam and Islamic societies maintain themselves by instilling fear in the hearts and minds of it’s people. It controls people with threats. It is not only a brutal and tyranical religion , but a goofy nutcase religion .  , and if you are a young man you can’t even do what a young man with natural hormones is meant to do.  It is a fantasy that’s got you hanging by your genitals. You are’nt even allowed to be a natural man, and if you have sex with a young woman she will get lashed or disgraced. She’s even more of a sucker than you .

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Posted: 18 July 2008 09:38 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 83 ]  
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Dee - 09 July 2008 05:20 AM
Jack Shooter - 08 July 2008 09:53 PM
Dee - 08 July 2008 04:52 AM

The problem with Islam is that it’s nuttier than a PAYDAY candy bar.

Don’t let it gain strength in the world ! It is a killer of all things the free world holds dear. Free societies should be aware of it’s movement and agression.

And why make a complicated thing of it ? It’s simple : Sane people should wake up to the force and reality of Islam—-and be prepared to deal with it . Wake up ! A monster is preying -don’t let it eat Democracy !

Haha.  You sound pretty pathetic.  Unfortunately, I think most sane people would recognize that your plea for them to ‘wake up’ is actually a desparate call to ignorance.  Good luck with that anyway.

I meant sane compared to Islam and Islamists . Let me reword that there are many sane people who are ignorant about Islam; it’s religious principles, rules, and unified efforts to impose them. This is 2008; a modern advanced society compared to Islam. Islam still wallows in the past , and hasn’t changed to a better and more humane religion as most of the other religions of the past have. They have gained perspective with and time has brought them some wisdom. Islam and Islamic societies maintain themselves by instilling fear in the hearts and minds of it’s people. It controls people with threats. It is not only a brutal and tyranical religion , but a goofy nutcase religion .  , and if you are a young man you can’t even do what a young man with natural hormones is meant to do.  It is a fantasy that’s got you hanging by your genitals. You are’nt even allowed to be a natural man, and if you have sex with a young woman she will get lashed or disgraced. She’s even more of a sucker than you .

Dee, seriously, are you that fearful of Islam?  I would check my defense mechanism radar if I were you.

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Posted: 23 July 2008 05:45 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 84 ]  
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Jack Shooter - 08 July 2008 09:57 PM
Wotansson - 07 July 2008 08:05 AM
Jack Shooter - 07 July 2008 01:45 AM
Wotansson - 06 July 2008 08:54 PM
Jack Shooter - 04 July 2008 10:17 PM
arildno - 04 July 2008 07:10 PM

Since the goal of defending, and spreading, Islam is MANDATORY for all Muslims within the traditional, and still dominant theology, it follows it is permissible for Muslims to lie whenever the “interests of Islam” is threatened, for example if the image of Islam among unbelievers is deemed “too negative” by Muslims.

Some such as yourself and Wot clearly deem the image of the Prophet’s (peace be upon him) marriage to Aisha (God be pleased with her) and his various battles as ‘too negative’, and yet no Muslim denies these.  Instead, we just point out the absurdities of your mindset.

Jack
Would you care to make a direct and definitive response to arildno’s statement?

Again:

Islam is MANDATORY for all Muslims within the traditional, and still dominant theology, it follows it is permissible for Muslims to lie whenever the “interests of Islam” is threatened, for example if the image of Islam among unbelievers is deemed “too negative” by Muslims.

Since Islam is mandatory for all Muslims, is it permissible for Muslims to lie whenever the interests and image of Islam is threatened? Yes or no please, and give credible support.

Wassail
Wot

No.  Anyway, I don’t know what you mean exactly by ‘interests and image of Islam’.  I already told you that Islam has nothing to hide about its teachings, you should know that by now if you have been following my posts.  http://www.livingislam.org/fiqhi/fiqha_e86.html


No? I think you have a very keen sense of the image and interests of Islam since this is the topic of virtually all your posts. I am afraid that your refusal places you in the category of…well..Taqiyyah-practicing liars.


Wassail
Wot

When and where have I lied about Islam?  Please tell me.  Incidentally, you suggesting that I have been lying to make Islam ‘look good’ shows that you find something good about what I have been saying concerning Islam.  All that is left is for you to find out whether I have been lying as you say I have, so please go ahead an advise me once you find out.

From the link provided by Jack:
http://www.livingislam.org/fiqhi/fiqha_e86.html

Question (2) Under what circumstances is telling a lie permitted?

Answer: Settling disagreements to bring about good between people, especially in war or between a husband and wife; or simply saying something commendable.

Question: I have heard a hadith that it is permitted in :wartime, making peace between people, and some issues pertaining to a husband and wife (I can’t remember exactly). Can this permission be extended by analogy to other situations, or is it restricted to just these?

Answer: The permission (rukhsa) of lying / misleading definitely extends to any other situations where “telling the whole truth and nothing but the truth” unjustly causes harm or injustice or impedes the carriage of justice or the performance of something obligatory (in which case lying is obligatory) or recommended or even permissible, although the way of strictness (`azima) is “to forgo lying in every case where it is not legally obligatory.”

So lying to a spouse or lying to simply say something commendable is permissible. Is not the propagation of Islam a commendable activity?

And if harm or injustice is perceived by the speaker (whatever that might be), the permission for lying/misleading is extended and might be obligatory.

How can one expect to be regarded with any credibility under these ground rules?

Stay Well
Wot

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Posted: 23 July 2008 09:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 85 ]  
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Wotansson - 23 July 2008 09:45 AM
Jack Shooter - 08 July 2008 09:57 PM
Wotansson - 07 July 2008 08:05 AM
Jack Shooter - 07 July 2008 01:45 AM
Wotansson - 06 July 2008 08:54 PM
Jack Shooter - 04 July 2008 10:17 PM
arildno - 04 July 2008 07:10 PM

Since the goal of defending, and spreading, Islam is MANDATORY for all Muslims within the traditional, and still dominant theology, it follows it is permissible for Muslims to lie whenever the “interests of Islam” is threatened, for example if the image of Islam among unbelievers is deemed “too negative” by Muslims.

Some such as yourself and Wot clearly deem the image of the Prophet’s (peace be upon him) marriage to Aisha (God be pleased with her) and his various battles as ‘too negative’, and yet no Muslim denies these.  Instead, we just point out the absurdities of your mindset.

Jack
Would you care to make a direct and definitive response to arildno’s statement?

Again:

Islam is MANDATORY for all Muslims within the traditional, and still dominant theology, it follows it is permissible for Muslims to lie whenever the “interests of Islam” is threatened, for example if the image of Islam among unbelievers is deemed “too negative” by Muslims.

Since Islam is mandatory for all Muslims, is it permissible for Muslims to lie whenever the interests and image of Islam is threatened? Yes or no please, and give credible support.

Wassail
Wot

No.  Anyway, I don’t know what you mean exactly by ‘interests and image of Islam’.  I already told you that Islam has nothing to hide about its teachings, you should know that by now if you have been following my posts.  http://www.livingislam.org/fiqhi/fiqha_e86.html


No? I think you have a very keen sense of the image and interests of Islam since this is the topic of virtually all your posts. I am afraid that your refusal places you in the category of…well..Taqiyyah-practicing liars.


Wassail
Wot

When and where have I lied about Islam?  Please tell me.  Incidentally, you suggesting that I have been lying to make Islam ‘look good’ shows that you find something good about what I have been saying concerning Islam.  All that is left is for you to find out whether I have been lying as you say I have, so please go ahead an advise me once you find out.

From the link provided by Jack:
http://www.livingislam.org/fiqhi/fiqha_e86.html

Question (2) Under what circumstances is telling a lie permitted?

Answer: Settling disagreements to bring about good between people, especially in war or between a husband and wife; or simply saying something commendable.

Question: I have heard a hadith that it is permitted in :wartime, making peace between people, and some issues pertaining to a husband and wife (I can’t remember exactly). Can this permission be extended by analogy to other situations, or is it restricted to just these?

Answer: The permission (rukhsa) of lying / misleading definitely extends to any other situations where “telling the whole truth and nothing but the truth” unjustly causes harm or injustice or impedes the carriage of justice or the performance of something obligatory (in which case lying is obligatory) or recommended or even permissible, although the way of strictness (`azima) is “to forgo lying in every case where it is not legally obligatory.”

So lying to a spouse or lying to simply say something commendable is permissible. Is not the propagation of Islam a commendable activity?

And if harm or injustice is perceived by the speaker (whatever that might be), the permission for lying/misleading is extended and might be obligatory.

How can one expect to be regarded with any credibility under these ground rules?

Stay Well
Wot

You are confused, again.  Look.  The propagation of Islam is a commendable activity, but why would lying be required in spreading it?  I said this before and I’ll say it again.  You can’t have it both ways.  You either feel that Islam is a terrible religion, as you claim to, but I think your lying to yourself, or you say it is not so bad, but only because what you know about Islam is not the truth, but lies made by Muslims to make Islam seem more palatable, to propagate Islam.  Which one is it?

For example, have you ever heard a Muslim deny the fact that the Prophet (peace be upon him) married Ayesha when she was six years old and consumated the marriage when she was nine years old?  If Muslims were permitted to lie about Islam to make it seem more suitable to people like you, surely this fact would be denied.

Amazingly, you cite the issue of the Prophet’s (peace be upon him) marriage to Ayesha with disgust, yet you deny the validity of other aspects of the Prophet’s (peace be upon him) life at the same time, including his marriage to widows, old women, Jewish women, and Christian women.  Either you believe these things happened or you don’t.  If the former is true for you, then why not believe in the other aspects of his (peace be upon him) life.  If the latter, then you have a lot more to explain to yourself as to how and why these tales came about, a much more difficult task in light of historical facts.

As to harm and injustice, these concepts are not so flimsy.  Of course, you have to understand what constitutes injustice, and having no idea about this, you will obviously run up against some major difficulties.  However, I would argue that most people have a sense of justice and know when something is unjust.  To lie in order to prevent injustice is a perfectly just allowance.  If you think otherwise, please provide an example so we can apply this principle and see if it makes sense.

In the end, it seems to me that you like to cherry pick your arguments to suit your biases.  And it doesn’t work for people that come to conclusions after all things are considered.

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Posted: 24 July 2008 05:03 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 86 ]  
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Jack shooter

Amazingly, you cite the issue of the Prophet’s (peace be upon him) marriage to Ayesha with disgust, yet you deny the validity of other aspects of the Prophet’s (peace be upon him) life at the same time, including his marriage to widows, old women, Jewish women, and Christian women.

Jack:

A simple yes or no answer is in order here:

You are saying it is OK—it is acceptable for a man to marry a 6 year old girl and have sex with her as long as he balances this out with a “virtuous” act of marrying widows, old woman, Jews, Christians?

Is this what you are saying?

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“Every war is a war against children.”
Howard Zinn

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Posted: 24 July 2008 08:08 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 87 ]  
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Jack Shooter - 24 July 2008 01:18 AM
Wotansson - 23 July 2008 09:45 AM
Jack Shooter - 08 July 2008 09:57 PM
Wotansson - 07 July 2008 08:05 AM
Jack Shooter - 07 July 2008 01:45 AM
Wotansson - 06 July 2008 08:54 PM
Jack Shooter - 04 July 2008 10:17 PM
arildno - 04 July 2008 07:10 PM

Since the goal of defending, and spreading, Islam is MANDATORY for all Muslims within the traditional, and still dominant theology, it follows it is permissible for Muslims to lie whenever the “interests of Islam” is threatened, for example if the image of Islam among unbelievers is deemed “too negative” by Muslims.

Some such as yourself and Wot clearly deem the image of the Prophet’s (peace be upon him) marriage to Aisha (God be pleased with her) and his various battles as ‘too negative’, and yet no Muslim denies these.  Instead, we just point out the absurdities of your mindset.

Jack
Would you care to make a direct and definitive response to arildno’s statement?

Again:

Islam is MANDATORY for all Muslims within the traditional, and still dominant theology, it follows it is permissible for Muslims to lie whenever the “interests of Islam” is threatened, for example if the image of Islam among unbelievers is deemed “too negative” by Muslims.

Since Islam is mandatory for all Muslims, is it permissible for Muslims to lie whenever the interests and image of Islam is threatened? Yes or no please, and give credible support.

Wassail
Wot

No.  Anyway, I don’t know what you mean exactly by ‘interests and image of Islam’.  I already told you that Islam has nothing to hide about its teachings, you should know that by now if you have been following my posts.  http://www.livingislam.org/fiqhi/fiqha_e86.html


No? I think you have a very keen sense of the image and interests of Islam since this is the topic of virtually all your posts. I am afraid that your refusal places you in the category of…well..Taqiyyah-practicing liars.


Wassail
Wot

When and where have I lied about Islam?  Please tell me.  Incidentally, you suggesting that I have been lying to make Islam ‘look good’ shows that you find something good about what I have been saying concerning Islam.  All that is left is for you to find out whether I have been lying as you say I have, so please go ahead an advise me once you find out.

From the link provided by Jack:
http://www.livingislam.org/fiqhi/fiqha_e86.html

Question (2) Under what circumstances is telling a lie permitted?

Answer: Settling disagreements to bring about good between people, especially in war or between a husband and wife; or simply saying something commendable.

Question: I have heard a hadith that it is permitted in :wartime, making peace between people, and some issues pertaining to a husband and wife (I can’t remember exactly). Can this permission be extended by analogy to other situations, or is it restricted to just these?

Answer: The permission (rukhsa) of lying / misleading definitely extends to any other situations where “telling the whole truth and nothing but the truth” unjustly causes harm or injustice or impedes the carriage of justice or the performance of something obligatory (in which case lying is obligatory) or recommended or even permissible, although the way of strictness (`azima) is “to forgo lying in every case where it is not legally obligatory.”

So lying to a spouse or lying to simply say something commendable is permissible. Is not the propagation of Islam a commendable activity?

And if harm or injustice is perceived by the speaker (whatever that might be), the permission for lying/misleading is extended and might be obligatory.

How can one expect to be regarded with any credibility under these ground rules?

Stay Well
Wot

You are confused, again.  Look.  The propagation of Islam is a commendable activity, but why would lying be required in spreading it?

Evasive action on your part, Jack.
We have never asserted that lying is “required” to spread Islam, but that it is an ALLOWED tool, if that propagates Islam.


For example, have you ever heard a Muslim deny the fact that the Prophet (peace be upon him) married Ayesha when she was six years old and consumated the marriage when she was nine years old?  If Muslims were permitted to lie about Islam to make it seem more suitable to people like you, surely this fact would be denied.

Muslims DO deny this, towards people who don’t haver ACTUAL knowledge of Islamic doctrine as we do (for example by using a flimsy, unreliable hadith from a non-Sahih source).
You would have denied it, too, were it not for the fact that we had proofs of it.
Thus, since a lie wouldn’t benefit Islam in this case, you don’t deny it.


The fact of the matter is that every Muslim’s individual credibility must be given the NULL VALUE, whether he speaks the truth or lies is to be established on independent evidence for every utterance he makes.

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Posted: 28 July 2008 06:32 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 88 ]  
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Jack Shooter - 08 July 2008 09:57 PM
Wotansson - 07 July 2008 08:05 AM
Jack Shooter - 07 July 2008 01:45 AM
Wotansson - 06 July 2008 08:54 PM
Jack Shooter - 04 July 2008 10:17 PM
arildno - 04 July 2008 07:10 PM

Since the goal of defending, and spreading, Islam is MANDATORY for all Muslims within the traditional, and still dominant theology, it follows it is permissible for Muslims to lie whenever the “interests of Islam” is threatened, for example if the image of Islam among unbelievers is deemed “too negative” by Muslims.

Some such as yourself and Wot clearly deem the image of the Prophet’s (peace be upon him) marriage to Aisha (God be pleased with her) and his various battles as ‘too negative’, and yet no Muslim denies these.  Instead, we just point out the absurdities of your mindset.

Jack
Would you care to make a direct and definitive response to arildno’s statement?

Again:

Islam is MANDATORY for all Muslims within the traditional, and still dominant theology, it follows it is permissible for Muslims to lie whenever the “interests of Islam” is threatened, for example if the image of Islam among unbelievers is deemed “too negative” by Muslims.

Since Islam is mandatory for all Muslims, is it permissible for Muslims to lie whenever the interests and image of Islam is threatened? Yes or no please, and give credible support.

Wassail
Wot

No.  Anyway, I don’t know what you mean exactly by ‘interests and image of Islam’.  I already told you that Islam has nothing to hide about its teachings, you should know that by now if you have been following my posts.  http://www.livingislam.org/fiqhi/fiqha_e86.html


No? I think you have a very keen sense of the image and interests of Islam since this is the topic of virtually all your posts. I am afraid that your refusal places you in the category of…well..Taqiyyah-practicing liars.


Wassail
Wot

When and where have I lied about Islam?  Please tell me.  Incidentally, you suggesting that I have been lying to make Islam ‘look good’ shows that you find something good about what I have been saying concerning Islam.  All that is left is for you to find out whether I have been lying as you say I have, so please go ahead an advise me once you find out.


From:
http://www.allaahuakbar.net/shiites/shia_belief_concerning_taqiyyah.htm

“A believer who does not dissimulate is like a body without a head.” (Tafseer al-Askari)

Since as a non-dissimulating believer, are you like a body without a head, are you asking me to prove you are a headless body or a non-believer?

He who does not act upon Taqiyyah is void of faith. [Tafseere Safi, part1, Faiz Kashani, page 253, New TehranEdition].

Are you asking that I prove that you do not act on taqiyyah or that you are void of faith?

Stay Well

Wotansson

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Posted: 29 July 2008 03:48 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 89 ]  
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mansoor531 - 06 May 2008 12:23 PM

...Sunnis and Shias have been living peacefully in Pakistan and other Islamic world….

Two words: Iran-Iraq.

Sunnis killing shias.
Shias killing sunnis.
Result:
1-2.000.000 killed by fellow believers of this
‘religion of peace’.

jonecc - 06 May 2008 07:41 PM

...
He also addresses problem verses generally by arguing that all verses have to be understood in the context of the Qur’an as a a whole. In practice, he always says that unpleasant verses are to be reinterpreted in the light of more benign verses, and never the other way round…

Which of cause is false.

The thing is that the quran does not
present the surahs in chronological order.

But when looking at the chronological order
one will see that all the
‘live in peace together blahblah’-surahs
comes first (early Mecca period, when M. was starting up)
and all the
horrific ‘boil all infidels’-surahs comes
in the later (Medina) period, after he was kicked out of Mecca.

..and the quran clearly states that
whatever text comes latest, is the one
that’s most valid.(Sounds stupid…naa..it IS stupid)

(2:106 Nothing of our revelation (even a single verse) do we abrogate or cause be forgotten, but we bring (in place) one better or the like thereof. Knowest thou not that allah is able to do all things?)
Oh yes; allah is able contradict himself. Does it all the time

Jack Shooter - 27 June 2008 02:32 PM

...
And now, here is the truth about what Muslim attitudes towards terrorism: Around 7 % of Muslims condone terrorist acts, and for political reasons only, not religious ones.

BS!

Here are the real numbers:

Percentage of muslims that find it ‘justifiable’
to use suicide bombing and other forms of violence
to target civilians (commit actions of terror)
in order to ‘defend islam’:

Lebanon 73
Jordan 43
Nigeria 47
Bangladesh 44…and the list goes on.

and if we include the number that
answered yes about ‘Is it ever justifiable’

Lebanon 82
Ivory Coast 73
Jordan 65…..you get the picture.

...and one can only fear what the figures
are in other arab muslim countries, ruled
by this ‘peaceful’ religion.

[ Edited: 29 July 2008 04:03 AM by Bongobongo Smith]
 Signature 

Christian psychopaty:

Bruce Burleson
“.Tell me why it is wrong to rape, steal and kill….
…If I am a slaveholder in Alabama in 1860, why shouldn’t I enslave the niggers, fuck their women, and whip their children when they disobey me????
I’ll tell you why, and it is the ONLY reason why
..”

..he fears gods punishment.

Christians per definition has no moral.
They are governed by fear and fear only.

..and they don’t mind using the N-word.

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Posted: 29 July 2008 04:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 90 ]  
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lindajean - 24 July 2008 09:03 AM

Jack shooter

Amazingly, you cite the issue of the Prophet’s (peace be upon him) marriage to Ayesha with disgust, yet you deny the validity of other aspects of the Prophet’s (peace be upon him) life at the same time, including his marriage to widows, old women, Jewish women, and Christian women.

Jack:

A simple yes or no answer is in order here:

You are saying it is OK—it is acceptable for a man to marry a 6 year old girl and have sex with her as long as he balances this out with a “virtuous” act of marrying widows, old woman, Jews, Christians?

Is this what you are saying?

Please read the posts in their entirity.  The prophet (peace be upon him) consumated the marriage with Aisha (may God be pleased with her) when she was 9 years old, when she had reached puberty according to the consensus of Muslim scholars, that is, she was an adolescent, a teenager, an adult.  Of course, no reasonable person would have a problem with this.

Hope that clears things up for you.

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