We are all very similar genetically.
Posted: 19 August 2008 08:14 PM   [ Ignore ]  
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I found the following to be very enlightening. Although similar research articles have been published over the last two decades the level of detail is increasing. The evidence still indicates that humans are incredibly similar and that “race” and ethnicity are mostly social constructs. The person who persecutes someone because they are “Jewish” may very well be persecuting someone whose genetic code is actually more indicative of someone whose ancestors hail from Europe or Central Asia.

“Behar believed that among Ashkenazi Jews, R1a1 was essentially restricted to Levites. However, we know from subsequent research that R1a1 comprises nearly 12% of Ashkenazi results, while the Levites only make up about 4-5 % of the Jewish people (Nebel et al. 2005). Thus, these results extend well beyond the Levite priestly class to approximately 5-8% of the Cohanim and Israelites (the non-priestly Jewish population) as well.


Haplogroup R1a1 is relatively rare within Middle Eastern populations, but very common among Eastern European and Scandinavian populations (Behar et al. 2003). It is found at a frequency of 7% in some Near Eastern groups (Behar et al. 2004b). However, given that Sephardic groups did not share R1a1 frequencies with the Ashkenazim, it was apparent that Jewish R1a1 was probably not of ancient Israelite origin. “


“The presence of Haplogroup Q among all Ashkenazi groups indicates the founders of this group either mixed with a number of separate Ashkenazi populations or, more likely, entered to the Ashkenazi population in western Europe in a similar fashion to Haplogroup R1a1, before the Ashkenazi migrated in large numbers eastward in the 13th-14th centuries.”


“The frequency of Haplogroup Q among Scandinavians is comparable to that found in Ashkenazim (Faux, private correspondence). It appears that Norwegians/Shetlanders and Ashkenazi Jews possess the highest percentages of haplogroup Q of any populations in Europe – a rare link between two very different populations who may share a common ancestor from Central Asia or Eastern Europe. Interestingly, Scandinavians and Shetlanders also possess high levels of haplogroup R1a1 as well, perhaps some of it originating from Central Asian sources (Faux, private correspondence).”

“Patai’s ultimate conclusion regarding admixture is particularly intriguing given the lack of DNA data available when he wrote his book. He relied heavily on other genetic data, including blood groups, fingerprint patterns, and genetic diseases, to reach his conclusions. Despite these limitations, Patai (1989, p. 294) concluded that while Jewish populations retain evidence of their Mediterranean and Middle Eastern origins, they have clearly experienced extensive admixture with their European neighbors. He cites various authors, including Cavalli-Sforza and Carmelli, who estimate such admixture rates to be approximately 40% for Ashkenazi Jews.”

 

“But Jewish DNA presents a picture that is far more complex than just the Cohanim results. This picture is also far more diverse than what many genetic studies on Ashkenazi Jews would suggest. Instead, many of those studies have focused heavily on the Israelite DNA results, often downplaying the significant contribution of European and Khazarian ancestors. The examination of only a single component of Jewish ancestry has resulted in an incomplete and, to a certain extent, distorted presentation of the Jewish genetic picture.

 

Diversity was present from Jewish beginnings, when various Semitic and Mediterranean peoples came together to form the Israelites of long ago. The genetic picture was clearly enriched during the Diaspora, when Jews spread far and wide across Europe, attracting converts and intermarrying over time with their European hosts. The most recent DNA evidence indicates that from this blending of Middle Eastern and European ancestors, the diverse DNA ancestry of the Ashkenazi Jews emerged.

 

Although the debate over the fate of the Khazars is far from over, DNA research suggests that remnants of these mysterious people continue to exist within the genetic makeup of Ashkenazi Jews. In fact, the Levite results indicate that the Khazars became fully integrated into the Ashkenazi communities and came to play an important role within the Jewish priesthood.


The Cohanim results do not disprove the genetic contribution of the Khazars. Rather, the DNA studies indicate that Jews are not entirely Khazarian, Israelite or European in genetic makeup, but a complex and unique mixture of all these peoples.”

http://www.jogg.info/11/coffman.htm

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Posted: 20 August 2008 10:13 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]  
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Nice find madam Sessions.  cool smile
Perhaps the delightful and always fabulous Rami will show it to his partner who believes he’s 100% Jew!

Ethnic labels suck!... everybody… well you know.

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Posted: 20 August 2008 10:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]  
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Sarah Sessions - 20 August 2008 12:14 AM

The evidence still indicates that humans are incredibly similar and that “race” and ethnicity are mostly social constructs.

I saw an interesting video in a course called “Scientific Racism” that came to the same conclusion.  I hope I’m getting this right -

Genetic comparisons of two people from opposite ends the globe often yielded more similarities than those of two people from the same place whose appearances are very similar.

I think that race is indeed a social construct, and yes, labels can suck.

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Posted: 20 August 2008 02:26 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]  
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I know this is unlikely, but, I have hope that someday people will judge others on their strength of character and their contributions to society rather than on their appearance, birthplace, beliefs, or sexual preferences… Then someone pinched me and I woke up just in time to watch the nukes start dropping from the sky.

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Posted: 20 August 2008 03:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]  
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Beam_Me_Up - 20 August 2008 06:26 PM

I know this is unlikely, but, I have hope that someday people will judge others on their strength of character and their contributions to society rather than on their appearance, birthplace, beliefs, or sexual preferences… Then someone pinched me and I woke up just in time to watch the nukes start dropping from the sky.

Evolve or perish.

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Posted: 27 August 2008 12:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]  
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isocratic infidel - 20 August 2008 02:13 PM

Nice find madam Sessions.  cool smile
Perhaps the delightful and always fabulous Rami will show it to his partner who believes he’s 100% Jew!

Ethnic labels suck!... everybody… well you know.

You better believe I’m always fabulous!  Delightful?  Well, not as often…

I’ve already expounded on this topic, but why the hell not do it all over again…

A Hawaiian man looks very different from a Nigerian man, who look very different from an Estonian, who looks very different from a Mongolian…  There is a reason for that.  They are the products of different gene pools.  And because for many thousands of years these gene pools have been isolated from each other because of simple geographical location, these groups have also developed distinct cultures.  Yes, of course under our skin we are basically all the same.  No one is arguing differently.  But let’s not pretend that we are all the product of the same gene pool.  We are not.  The Armenians, for example, have had a taboo against marrying non-Armenians for a long time.  This is why Armenians have a very distinct look.  They kept the gene pool very small and limited for many years.  I, rebel that I am, am the offspring of an Armenian father and a Bulgarian mother.  And frankly, sometimes people mistake me for being Jewish.  I have “that look”.  So, yes, genetically we are all much more the same than our ethnic divisions would suggest.  I mean, look at the Croations, Serbians, Macedonians, Bosnians…  They are all the descendants of the Southern Slavs.  The distinctions between them are largely cultural and religious.  So I get what you are saying.  But at the same time, let us not pretend that there are no genetic differences between us.  I am not saying that there are sharp genetic distinctions between ethnicities, but there are some traits that predominate in certain populations because of the isolation (natural or deliberate) of the gene pool.  And yes, I understand that more often than not, populations have not been able to “preserve” their ethnic “purity” over the millennia.  So, in that respect I agree that genetically speaking Arabs, Jews, Armenians, Syrians, etc are much more closely related than their cultures would suggest.

I am not suggesting that we should judge each other according to our labels.  I, of all people, know that.  But I think it is silly to object to ethnic labels.  There is nothing wrong with saying that so-and-so is Latvian.  It provides basic information about that person’s race, look, culture, language and perhaps even religion.  S/he is “Latvian” because s/he is, to whatever degree, the product of the Latvian gene pool, the Latvian culture, etc.  This is why when I tell people on a message board that I am “Bulgarian” nobody expects my photo to be of a black man.

Again, we are merely talking about basic facts and what criteria are used to define a person’s ethnicity.  Please do not presume an agenda or ideology from this discussion.  Be rationalists.

Delightful enough for ya?

Rami

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Posted: 28 August 2008 02:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]  
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Again, we are merely talking about basic facts and what criteria are used to define a person’s ethnicity.  Please do not presume an agenda or ideology from this discussion.  Be rationalists.

There is a tendency among some acamedians to deny that “race” exists biologically, and that is merely a social construct.

Their view seems to be this If we can make racism disappear, racism will surely follow. A noble ideal, but one that defies biology. If by “race” we mean variations in physical type, hair and skin color and texture, among different isolated populations, then yes, race does exist among humans. We note such differences among animal subspecies, such as wolves for example, so why not the same among humans?

The problem is that when it comes to human subspecies, we very often read our own tribalistic prejudices into such differences. The eugenecists of the early twentiath century were white, so of course they saw their own physical charactistics as somehow “superior” to the others.

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