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Objective and verifiable proof of the divine origin of Quran
 Posted: 29 March 2009 06:24 AM [ Ignore ]
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89:1   By the Dawn
89:2   And the Ten Nights
89:3   And the Even and the Odd
89:4   And the night when it departs
89:5   Is there not in it strong evidence for one possessed of understanding?

The Quran has 114 Chapters (or Sura’s). Two numbers can be associated with each Sura, S and V.

S = Serial number of the Sura
V = Number of verses in the Sura

Sum of all S = 1+2+3+...+114 = 6555   (We call this T1 )

Sum of all V = Number of verses in the Quran = 6236 (We call this T2)

No. of Sura’s with an even serial no.  = 57
(We call this SE group)

No. of Sura’s with an odd serial no. = 57
(We call this SO group)

No of Sura’s with even number of verses = 60
(We call this the VE group)

No of Sura’s with odd number of verses = 54
(We call this the VO group)

A Sura having S and V both even or both odd is a homogeneous sura ( We call this HM group)

A Sura having S even but V odd or vice versa is a hetrogeneous sura (We call this HT group)

AMAZING FACTS
==================

1. Both HM and HT contain exactly 57 suras!

2. Sum of all serial numbers (S) and verse count (V) of HM sura’s = 6555 = T1 !!

3. Sum of all serial numbers (S) and verse count (V) of HT sura’s = 6236 = T2 !!

Nothing in maths dictate that above three should be true.
For example, if the first Sura contained 8 or 6 verses instead of 7 none of the above 3 would be true.

T1 has nothing to do with number of verses (V) and T2 has nothing to do with order of the Sura’s (S)

We can further divide the VE group (Sura’s having even number of verses) depending on whether their serial no
is even ( VE_SE group ) or odd (VE_SO group )

and similarly the VO group depending on whether their serial no is even
(VO_SE) or odd (VO_SO)

AMAZING FACTS
==================

1.  Both VE_SE and VE_SO contain exactly 30 Sura’s !!

in other words no. of sura’s with even no. of verses and even serials are equal to the no. of sura’s with even verses but odd serials. They didn’t have to be but they are!

2. Both VO_SE and VO_SO contain exactly 27 Sura’s !!

They didn’t have to be but they are!

Lets divide the Qur’anic Suras with regard to numbers into two equal halves:
1 to 57 and 58 to 114. There would be obviously 28 even serial-numbered Suras in the first half of the Holy Qur’an and thus 29 odd serial-numbered ones.
In the second half there are 28 odd serial-numbered Suras and thus 29 even serial-numbered ones.

AMAZING FACTS
==================

1. There are 28 HM Suras in the first half and 29 HT ones !!
2. There are 29 HM Suras in the second half and 28 HT ones !!

They didn’t have to be but they are!

There are 27 VE Sura’s in the first half of the Quran so the remaining 33 (since they are 60 ) are in the second half
The sum of the number of verses in the first 27 VE Sura’s = 2690

AMAZING FACT
==================

The sum of the serial numbers of the 33 VE Sura’s in the second half is also 2690 !!

It didn’t have to be but it is!

Sura 57 is Al-Hadid (Iron), which marks the end of the first half of the Qur’anic Suras. It has 29 verses. If we multiply the serial number of the Sura by the number of verses it contains, the result is 29×57=1653

AMAZING FACT
=========================
The total number of the serial number of Suras 1-57, i.e. 1+2+3+...+57 = 1653 !!

It didn’t have to be but it is!

CONCLUSIONS
==============

1. It is absurd to assert that this mathematical configuration occurred by chance.

2. It is equally absurd to state that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) either alone or along with his companions painstakingly created this configuration for the following reasons.

a. No Muslim knew of this until the twentieth century. It is not mentioned
anywhere, any time and in any book whatsoever. And if the Prophet did it
then why did he hide it?

b. Quran is a literary masterpiece and challanges the Arabs to match it in style, eloquence etc. Humans dont write poetry with Math in mind!

c. In 23 years Muhammad (pbuh) and his companions brought the greatest revolution in human history. Where would they get the time for this?

From 1 and 2 the only reasonable conclution is that this Book IS the divine revelation as claimed by the Book itself and the person who presented it to the world

Other conclusions drawn from this

1. The Quran is perfectly preserved. Nothing is added, removed or its order changed.

2. The number of verses in each Sura is also a revelation.

3. The issues under discussion are contemporary discoveries and thus the Qur’anic miracle appears in a new form. We should note that the world of numbers is the world of facts and that its language is of greater clarity and decisiveness.

4.  These findings destroy the attempts of the orientalists to doubt the serial order of the Scripture

5.  Such research might serve as a key to studies that deal with Qur’anic text far from merely its historical aspect, which is utilized by people of falsehood for distortion and disturbance. Of course, we do not intend to
overlook the historical aspect, but we add it as a separate proof.

6.  The reader will note that the matter is based on investigation rather than independent judgement. Therefore, there is no room for rejecting or denying it unless more accurate calculation proves the error of the results.

Here is the data for any one to verify

S   V
=============
1   7
2   286
3   200
4   176
5   120
6   165
7   206
8   75
9   129
10   109
11   123
12   111
13   43
14   52
15   99
16   128
17   111
18   110
19   98
20   135
21   112
22   78
23   118
24   64
25   77
26   227
27   93
28   88
29   69
30   60
31   34
32   30
33   73
34   54
35   45
36   83
37   182
38   88
39   75
40   85
41   54
42   53
43   89
44   59
45   37
46   35
47   38
48   29
49   18
50   45
51   60
52   49
53   62
54   55
55   78
56   96
57   29
58   22
59   24
60   13
61   14
62   11
63   11
64   18
65   12
66   12
67   30
68   52
69   52
70   44
71   28
72   28
73   20
74   56
75   40
76   31
77   50
78   40
79   46
80   42
81   29
82   19
83   36
84   25
85   22
86   17
87   19
88   26
89   30
90   20
91   15
92   21
93   11
94   8
95   8
96   19
97   5
98   8
99   8
100   11
101   11
102   8
103   3
104   9
105   5
106   4
107   7
108   3
109   6
110   3
111   5
112   4
113   5
114   6

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 Posted: 29 March 2009 07:03 AM [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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I think you have an interesting theory here, Zit Boy.

I am trying, in my own inept way, to do something similar.

I live on a farm and my family has for generations been pig-breeders.
One of our sows had a litter of piglets who all behaved very differently from the others that I have seen, so I became curious.

On a whim, I took it upon myself to paint the image of Mohammed on one of the piglets rear-end, in such a fashion that His mouth was exactly located where the piglet’s anus was and, lo and behold, now, when the cute little piglet defecates, the sound it makes is remarkably similar to the first 3 Suras in the Quran, when recited by an inebriated Scotsman with a lisp speaking French.

Isn’t that amazing!

And very scientific too.

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 Posted: 29 March 2009 07:35 AM [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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Have you dicky-sticked your promised 9-year old yet, zit boy?

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 Posted: 29 March 2009 07:48 AM [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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ZB, you need to read ‘Why I Am Not A Muslim’ by ex-Muslim scholar Ibn Warraq. Especially his very long section on the Koran.

You will understand in short order why this book, possibly above all others, is not divine.

It is a complete sham.

Good luck.

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‘Every reflecting mind must acknowledge that there is no proof of the existence of a Deity’

‘If ignorance of nature gave birth to gods, knowledge of nature destroys them’

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 Posted: 29 March 2009 06:45 PM [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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McCreason - 29 March 2009 11:48 AM

ZB, you need to read ‘Why I Am Not A Muslim’ by ex-Muslim scholar Ibn Warraq. Especially his very long section on the Koran.

You will understand in short order why this book, possibly above all others, is not divine.

It is a complete sham.

Good luck.

Leave aside subjective issues/arguments and try of focus on the evidence I’ve posted and the proof I’ve constructed which is objective, easily verifiable and logical. There are three possibilities for this mathematical configuration

1. Chance
2. Human work
3. Super human (or divine) work.

I’ve shown that 1 and 2 are not possible which only leaves us with 3.

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 Posted: 29 March 2009 07:08 PM [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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Zit Boy - 29 March 2009 10:45 PM
McCreason - 29 March 2009 11:48 AM

ZB, you need to read ‘Why I Am Not A Muslim’ by ex-Muslim scholar Ibn Warraq. Especially his very long section on the Koran.

You will understand in short order why this book, possibly above all others, is not divine.

It is a complete sham.

Good luck.

Leave aside subjective issues/arguments and try of focus on the evidence I’ve posted and the proof I’ve constructed which is objective, easily verifiable and logical. There are three possibilities for this mathematical configuration

1. Chance
2. Human work
3. Super human (or divine) work.

I’ve shown that 1 and 2 are not possible which only leaves us with 3.

All you’ve shown is that your a fool!

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Why is there Something instead of Nothing: No reason or ever knowable reason.

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 Posted: 30 March 2009 06:38 AM [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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The first thing to understand is that there is no such thing as THE Quran or Koran.

There are 7 versions and scholars even break those down into 14 versions because each of the 7 have 2 different transmitters.

These books are all different and all terribly flawed.

ZB, your mathematics means nothing. You are being duped dude.

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‘Every reflecting mind must acknowledge that there is no proof of the existence of a Deity’

‘If ignorance of nature gave birth to gods, knowledge of nature destroys them’

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 Posted: 30 March 2009 07:48 AM [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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McCreason - 30 March 2009 10:38 AM

The first thing to understand is that there is no such thing as THE Quran or Koran.

There are 7 versions and scholars even break those down into 14 versions because each of the 7 have 2 different transmitters.

These books are all different and all terribly flawed.

ZB, your mathematics means nothing. You are being duped dude.

Your being generous by calling it mathematics….... What are the statics of odd and even e.g. heads and tails, equal. 114 = 57 odd and 57 even, what are the odds, pretty fucking good!!

Here is one reply I found on the web:

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 Posted: 30 March 2009 08:23 AM [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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Thanks Gad. Lies, statistics and damned lies, or however the phrase goes.

I am waiting to here how Edgar Cayce and Nostradamus predicted this!

Some people are just always looking for miracles.

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‘Every reflecting mind must acknowledge that there is no proof of the existence of a Deity’

‘If ignorance of nature gave birth to gods, knowledge of nature destroys them’

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 Posted: 30 March 2009 08:43 AM [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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It’s not surprising that a person who wants to believe in something would welcome the common coincidences of numerology. If one has the time to look, one can find mathematical coincidences in nearly anything. Pharmaceuticals have experts who glean studies to find the right slant for their positions and products. The above math coincidences are not even particularly surprising or interesting unless you are trying to find a way to convince yourself that your cherished beliefs have some validity despite your nagging doubts. This is nothing but confirmation bias.

Why does an almighty creator (peas be upon her) need to rely on cheap math tricks to “prove” its existence? Why does a deity need people to do its bidding? Why doesn’t he (or she, or they) just appear in the clouds and juggle cats or something like that?

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Real honesty is accepting the theories that best explain the actual data even if those explanations contradict our cherished beliefs.-Scotty

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 Posted: 30 March 2009 09:48 AM [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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Yeah, I think thats the main point Beam. It always has to be some kind of an easter egg hunt. The Korans, with it’s derivatives, (ooh, bad word these days ) has so many obvious flaws and contradictions and absurdities that people have sunk to new lows to try and prove it’s authenticity and divinity. It’s beyond ridiculous.

Michael Shermer disproved one of those hidden bible codes in his book ‘How We Believe’, but this nonsense never ends. Those who have chosen to believe will always find ways to believe. It seems beyond them to understand the simple psychology of this. They choose numbers, miracles, prophecies as priori, and then look for ways to explain them and justify them. Skepticism and critical thinking is yet beyond them. Perhaps zit boy is young and has time to recover, but many never figure it out, sadly.

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‘Every reflecting mind must acknowledge that there is no proof of the existence of a Deity’

‘If ignorance of nature gave birth to gods, knowledge of nature destroys them’

Percy Bysshe Shelley

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 Posted: 30 March 2009 11:51 AM [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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“1. It is absurd to assert that this mathematical configuration occurred by chance.

Nope.

The probability that any particular text will show SOME sort of “mathematical” configuration is close to 100%
Which particular configuration happens to occur in a particular work is devoid of interest.

So, what was your point again?

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 Posted: 30 March 2009 12:39 PM [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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Beam - 30 March 2009 12:43 PM

Why doesn’t he (or she, or they) just appear in the clouds and juggle cats or something like that?

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 Posted: 30 March 2009 01:24 PM [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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LOL Aaron. I worship all cat/dog jugglers!!!!

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‘Every reflecting mind must acknowledge that there is no proof of the existence of a Deity’

‘If ignorance of nature gave birth to gods, knowledge of nature destroys them’

Percy Bysshe Shelley

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 Posted: 30 March 2009 02:13 PM [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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Aaron, you are an evil infidel! I love it! I never considered the possibility that god was a preteen girl. Btw, aren’t those Boston terriers?

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Real honesty is accepting the theories that best explain the actual data even if those explanations contradict our cherished beliefs.-Scotty

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 Posted: 30 March 2009 05:43 PM [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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McC - I didn’t even realize those were dogs until I looked again. I was in a rush, and the pic came up on a google search for juggling cats.

Beam, thanks! They may be Boston terriers. I’m not sure. I had a dream when I was kid that God was a plump pre-teen girl in a plaid dress who hovered against the low ceiling of a refurbished basement (“rumpus room”) like a helium balloon. A very 70s and very boring God.

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