Sam Harris

Amazing! I liked this from the article:

Ellison: Right. And science fiction fans will go for any goddamm thing. They’ll believe anything, man, they will believe in the abominable snowman and the Bermuda Triangle, in Pyramid Power, in EST, in Scientology, in the Second Coming, they’ll believe in any goddamm thing, they don’t give a shit. They go to see “Star Wars”; they think it is for real!

So science fiction fans picked it up, they began proselytizing, he started making money, when he had made enough money he was able to spread out a little more, then he got more cuckoos, you know, pre-Charlie Manson assholes that had no place else to go, and he began talking to these loons as if “Dianetics” really meant something. Then he wanted to get tax-exempt status, so he called it “The Church of Scientology”.

They’ll believe in any goddamned thing…

Hi Noggers!

Good to see you still mixing it up with the diuretic **cough** dyanetic types!

One of the first posts I read on this site was your entry into the yellow toothed world of Scientology.  I loved it.  I approach my own first anniversary with this site by being asked (again) to do a job for the evangelical charismatic Catholics of Anaheim, CA.

Between such subjects as:  “The persecution of the Catholic church in Mexico”, to “The purpose of Life and How to keep your children Catholic”, I should have a good time.

Last year, I spent my time reading this site so I would not go insane.  I could not log on, as there was a problem with the server.

I have been away for awhile, but I will be giving many updates from this wonderful conference.

Hopefully, this year, they pay me on time.

Anyhoo, I had heard about this famous meeting where L-Ron and various SciFi writers were drinking and the subject of religion came up.  Harlan would probably be right.  I heard PK Dick was there too, but he is dead.  Alas.
Not to tout South Park as a reference, but they did do a great job on Scientology.  You can find it at:  http://www.allsp.com 
I think it is season 10.  The episode is called:  “in the closet”.
Guest appearances by John Travolta, Tom Cruise, and P-Diddy.

Very good.

Hey Noggin’—

    (I just accidentally typed your name “Nogoni” ... almost makes you sound like a prophet!  I had to fix it, though, being a former proofreader.  I just can’t let stuff like that go…)

    I’m glad you answered my question, and let me understand a little better your intentions in the Scientology Adventure.  I was under the impression that your quest was a little on the mean-spirited side, but I don’t think it was. I was thinking that you just wanted a turn to be the heckler instead of the ‘hecklee’, but that wasn’t it.

    It’s too bad, isn’t it,  that it sometimes takes a cult and all its attendant craziness to get people to act with such enthusiasm and conviction.  It would be nice if people could get all intense about doing things like taking care of the environment, or making the educational system better, or cleaning up corrupt governments.  I guess there are people dedicated to these causes.  They just don’t have money and publicity that a well-oiled cult generates.

    And just as an aside, as far as being totally weirded out by the ‘Scientology Stare’—I am always interested in the way cults use various techniques to capture the attention (and the minds) of their adherents.  I remember reading in a Psych text book once that one of the indicators of a person with a psychosis, or a psychiatric abberation, was ‘inappropriate eye contact’ (i.e.  staring)  On the other hand, one of the things an honest and direct person will do is look you in the eye.  One of the things I like best about dogs (and babies, too) is that you can stare right into their eyes, and they will stare right back… and there’s nothing rude or psychotic about it. 

    Thank God my dog is not a Scientologist.

[quote author=“woofy”]  I remember reading in a Psych text book once that one of the indicators of a person with a psychosis, or a psychiatric abberation, was ‘inappropriate eye contact’ (i.e.  staring).

I’ve found that it’s more intense than that.  I had a friend with whom I grew up who has had many bouts with psychosis.  Paranoid schizophrenia to be exact.  Even when he is “Here”,  he has this uncanny way of staring into your eyes.  He looks through you.  Alot of people are weirded out by this, but he’s pretty normal when he’s on meds.  It’s just the stare that bugs people.  I ignore it.  I’ve know him along time and am used to it.

I don’t know if the Scientologists are crazy, but if they learn to affect this stare, it would be most disconcerting to many people.

Truly Awesome, Noggin.  I worked at a Mormon company (and I was already an Atheist at the time), one which ironically was a vendor to Amway/Quixtar.  It has taken me 10 years after leaving that job to realize that the enormous frustration I felt there had a lot to do with the cult-like management techniques of my boss, coworkers and customers.

Since then, it’s been sort of a hobby of mine to examine MLM (multi-level marketing) schemes, and learn more about LDS.  I am continuously fascinated with the similarities between the two groups…And while I wasn’t anywhere as steeped in LDS as you were, I immediately understood your drive to see Scientology up close & personal.

I’d love to compare notes with you as to how LDS “manages” its people (e.g. missionaries) and how Scientology does the same, how MLMs do so too, and perhaps compare to other cults to see any further similarities.

Bravo.

[quote author=“Stryder”]Truly Awesome, Noggin.

well, much thanks for that! 

I’d love to compare notes with you as to how LDS “manages” its people (e.g. missionaries) and how Scientology does the same, how MLMs do so too, and perhaps compare to other cults to see any further similarities.

Stryder, I am always wanting to dissect and reconstruct!  I encourage you to start another thread and pose your points and questions and I will see if I can add perspective.

Noggin

Greetings, Noggin.

Reading your tale reminded me of my brush with the wonders of Dianetics, 14 or 15 years ago.

I was 19 or 20 and I was on holiday in Dorset, (England) with my girlfriend and her family.

  A few weeks previously, my girlfriend had filled out and sent a questionaire to one of the Dianetics offices and she had been invited along to their office in Poole.

  We all went along, interested to find out what Dianetics was all about. While waiting for my girl friend’s interview, I was given the same questionaire to fill out, which I did. (It was a ‘fill-in-the-lozenge’ type form, which was then run through a scanner and the information collected).

  We were seperated and taken to our individual interview rooms. My interviewer was a woman, who proceded to ‘um’ and ‘err’ over my results.

  Apparently the graph of my results told her I was having real problems with self-esteem, a problem that couldn’t be remedied by myself alone (something I internally questioned, as I had been doing amateur dramatics for a few years and was gaining - or so I thought! - a tenuous hold on who I was and who I wanted to be…).

  These problems, I was assured, could be easily dealt with by the application of Dianetics. All I had to do was give the woman 45 or so pounds… (A massive sum for a twenty year old still in High-School might I add! and certainly all the money I had saved for my holiday).

  I of course said no, but the woman was persistant beyond belief. I stood up to leave and she forcibly ordered me to sit back down… all very unsettling and, needless to say, a very clever way of extracting the required amount of money from me!

  I left the room shocked and confused, signed my money away and left, finally admiting to my girlfriend’s parents what had happened that afternoon at the hotel. They immediately returned to the office and demanded my money back, which they eventually received.

  A close brush with doom if you ask me! And a marvelous lesson to me about Dianetics, Scientology and similar followings…

[quote author=“mattriceten”]Greetings, Noggin.

and greetings to you, thanks for adding your experience with scientology to the thread, much appreciated!

Reading your tale reminded me of my brush with the wonders of   A few weeks previously, my girlfriend had filled out and sent a questionaire to one of the Dianetics offices

I have since learned that this questionaire is a catch all for potential recruits.  There is always, and I mean always, a decifiency that shows up in the potential recruits questionaire results.  Can you imagine taking the questionaire, turning it in to the scientologist “examiner” personel and having them come back to you with

Well hey!  Looks like you are so well rounded and suitable for life in general that basically, any pursuit of scientology by you would be absolutley fruitless!!  See ya later! Thanks for stopping by!

That just made me laugh outloud.  In my encounter with Dustin the recruiter, Dustin had a knack for mining my every potential deficiency and exhorting me at inoportune moments with

...and scientology can help you fix that!

oh brother

We all went along, interested to find out what Dianetics was all about. While waiting for my girl friend’s interview, I was given the same questionaire to fill out, which I did. (It was a ‘fill-in-the-lozenge’ type form, which was then run through a scanner and the information collected).

  We were seperated and taken to our individual interview rooms. My interviewer was a woman, who proceded to ‘um’ and ‘err’ over my results.

I am positive she found many deficiencies that only scientology could help out with.

Apparently the graph of my results told her I was having real problems with self-esteem, a problem that couldn’t be remedied by myself alone

surprise!! and scientology is here to help you with that!

(something I internally questioned, as I had been doing amateur dramatics for a few years and was gaining - or so I thought! - a tenuous hold on who I was and who I wanted to be…).

Right.  But see, you cannot gain the ground on your development that scientology can.  You see, they hold the very key to untold quantities of luxurious, fabio-esque, make the women swoon with desire, defy your boss to dare try not to promote you—type self esteem.

What a hook that is.  I am glad you did not swallow.

  These problems, I was assured, could be easily dealt with by the application of Dianetics. All I had to do was give the woman 45 or so pounds…

surprise!  And I bet she tried to tell you what a bargain that was… and what type of a price can we actually place on the value of a bold and empowered self esteem!!  With dianetics, you will be oozing copious amounts of flexing self-esteem!  Just you wait!

I of course said no, but the woman was persistant beyond belief. I stood up to leave and she forcibly ordered me to sit back down…

wait young man!  I am ordering you!  You don’t know what you are turning down!  I order you, for your own good and you can’t even see how benevolent and kind I am being right now but one day you will thank me for this, I order you to SIT DOWN AND PAY US MONEY FOR THIS FABULOUS SELF-ESTEEM WE ARE SELLING YOU!!!

  A close brush with doom if you ask me! And a marvelous lesson to me about Dianetics, Scientology and similar followings…

I thank you sincerely, for adding much to the discussion on scientology!  It truly needs more of us to examine it and report what it really is in order for some semblance of awareness to come forward and diminish it’s prevelance among us.  It’s the only way to descale such a monster.

Noggin

Hey Noggin!

Many thanks for the thanks!

It truly needs more of us to examine it and report what it really is in order for some semblance of awareness to come forward and diminish it’s prevelance among us

How very true. I do find it hard to directly question belief systems, though. I suppose it’s just the way I was brought up… Middle-Class, Southern British,... I see myself as Tolerent and Liberal-thinking. My Grandpa fought in WWII so that I could live in a free democratic society… and there lies the problem.

Maybe it’s time to start questioning more. Maybe it’s time to start asking, “Is this belief system (mine and/or ‘theirs’) doing me/us any good?”

Noggin -

Thank you for sharing that experience.  My greatest fears about Scientology were confirmed! Regardless of your motives, you are a brave man for putting yourself on the line against such a powerful brainwashing cult.  I don’t think I would be willing to do the same.  Your next order of business should be tackling those damn Jedi mind tricks. 

I’d also like to reiterate that you are a fantastic writer and this tale MUST be published somewhere.

Amazing, depressing, hysterically funny.

Hey you are very kind Johnny Sweatpants and I have some news… I have another installment to make.  Yes, I had a Scientology encounter.

Turns out, I am in their database never to be stricken from the Hubbardology database and believe me I have tried to get that job done.  So basically I have relinquished my efforts in that area and embrace my encounters when the happen.

Last Week the phone rang.  It was dinner time.  I had just finished my last bite so lucky for them I did not feel too angry about the timing. 

Scien… Church of…

chirped the audible caller ID.  OH BOY!  My friends have been moved with inspiration again.  They need my money… er.. me.  So I grab the receiver and give a throaty

Hullo

to the unsuspecting one on the other end.

NOGGIN!!

oh, Smooooth.  They just assume it’s me.  Just pick up and gab gab gab.  This is a well played cold calling tactic done in the business world.  Nobody calls me by my birth name so when I get the New Best Friend From Nowhere on the phone calling me by my birth name I know he’s trying to sell me something.

NOGGIN Hello! This is **garbled** from the Dianetics Foundation!

eh.  Who is this again?

It’s **garbled**!!

For the life of me I cannot explain why this person could not pronounce their own name coherently but this first exchange became uncomfortable… I mean, was I going to ask a third time?  Maybe this was one of their disarming tactics?  I mean, who gargles their own name? 

Hi, Mr. Johnson nice to meet you and my name is… **takes out bottle of Scope, gets a mouthful** Groggleharrgrggrraarrg.

Anyway.  Gargle makes up for name pronounciation in exhuberence.  This man is ecstatic to talk with me.  I instantly feel like a celebrity.  Gargle wants to make sure that I am going to attend next week’s special audit session program.

Are you ready to RECOMMIT… REFOCUS… REVITALIZE you life Noggin?  Because we are putting together an exclusive program and we want YOU to be a part of it, Noggin!  It’s the Golden Age of Knowledge for Eternity!

pause…..

Noggin?

Oh, okay… it’s my turn to say something now. 

Look, Gargle, I really appreciate that you feel this is a major break through but I have to tell you, it honestly feels like you are trying to sell me something.

Sell you something?  Sure there is money involved but that is second to the rapid progress on The Bridge that you will be making…. JUST THINK OF THE PROGRESS!  It does not matter if you became a Scientologist in 1953 or yesterday.. this program has EVERYTHING to do with YOU and your ETERNITY.

Gargle begins to sound like he is reading from a script

You will witness first hand the riveting event that lauunched the most significant moment in Scientology history.  This historic presentation documents the excitement of the discoveries and life-changing successes that surround what is the very base on which all Scientology rests.  Noggin, change your eternity TODAY!

(I just typed that from the brochure that came in the mail like the next day after the phone call, indeed, Gargle was reading from it.. or something like it, the brochure is “The World of Scientology Changed Forever”).

Okay, Gargle, look, I am not a Scientologist.

Pause.

It shows here that you did a couple of auditing sessions.

Yes, I did.  But that was just to try to ascertain what Scientology was about.  I do not affiliate with Scientology, I am an agnostic.  In fact, I have a Dianetics kit I would like your organization to buy back from me.

Now WHY would we do that?

Because, I have determined Scientology is not what it claims.

And what do we claim to be?

Scientology claims to have an existential bridge that L Ron Hubbard built for us to walk across into enlightenment, Only Scientologists can walk on the bridge.  Anyone else is not on the bridge and will not have a glorious eternity.

pause.

See, Gargle, I have to ask you a question.  On what basis do I accept your claims and reject Islam’s? 

Noggin, it’s all so simple.  Scientology works!

But Gargle, Islam “works”... all religions “work”.  There would not be such a huge following of people to the masses of world religion if they did not “work”.  Theists posit the existence of a god… and if such a god existed, it would be extremely important to figure out how it wanted us to worship him while we lived on earth Don’t you think?

pause…....... yes.

So then… Again, what is the basis that I should accept what Scientology teaches and reject the rest of world religion?  Because if I am wrong, I will fry in the eternities.  Each major religion has a very special outline as to what hell is and is not and who will go there.  How do you suggest I prove to myself above that I should indeed be a Scientologist and not a Mormon or a Christian or a Buddhist or Muslim or a Jew?  WHAT is the basis on which I can make such a weighty decision?

BIG PAUSE…........  Noggin, you just have to keep at it.  You must try Scientology and then you will know what I am talking about.

You are telling me nothing that all of the other major world religions haven’t already told me.  Try again.

Uh… okay, Noggin, I really have to go now.  Nice talking to you.

Noggin - 30 September 2007 01:12 AM

Hey you are very kind Johnny Sweatpants and I have some news… I have another installment to make.  Yes, I had a Scientology encounter.

Nog…that was one funny story!

I’d say its just as amusing as the tales from your cult champ