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If Jesus could really defy death…
Posted: 26 January 2012 12:50 PM   [ Ignore ]  
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Why not resurrect 1000 times if need be, if your message is so damn important to the human race and you can resurrect, why not just keep resurrecting until they get the point that you can’t be killed unless you want to be.  Every time they try to put you in a box to seal you off, just have the archangels come back and let you out again?  If Jesus truly was such a supremely evolved being that he gained the empowerment of resurrection over many lifetimes of karma (one theory I’ve heard), or Gods message was really that important (God doing all the work), a one time resurrection where you are just seen by your old friends seems pretty damn lame.  Some might suggest that it’s because as Jesus said, that we’re so damn evil, we don’t deserve to see miracles, that only Jesus’ friends were good enough to see the miracles.  If a message is really that important, I would think the wicked would turn good pretty damn quick if they kept seeing you come back from the dead and what you said actually made sense.

Point being.  Jesus did not resurrect.

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Posted: 26 January 2012 01:27 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]  
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No shit. None of what they say makes one ounce of sense at all.

Welcome, to the REAL world.

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Posted: 30 January 2012 09:43 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]  
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Why even bother with resurrection and the barbarity of human sacrifice.


This isn’t original to me - but what if Jesus never died?  What if he never aged, was impervious to injury, etc, etc, and just chilled in middle east somewhere since the time of the bible Wouldn’t his message then actually carry weight?


Just imagine if you could, today, travel on a holy pilgrimage to Bethlehem (or whatever location; Jesus could even give tours) and meet Jesus.  Your first impression might be that he is just another “prophet”.  But then if you heard from your parents, and your grandparents, and everyone elses grandparents, that they met this guy as well and he never aged.  All assassinations failed.  And he preached the gospel, and so forth.  And then 70 years later you yourself meet this guy again and he never aged, even though now you are an old man.  And this was corroborated by the multitudes.  And television crews made a reality show “Jesus Christ”.  And so on.


Now that would be a powerful message, and it wouldn’t ruin anyone’s free will either, just like none of the alleged miracles could have.

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Posted: 19 February 2012 04:48 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]  
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Brilliant observation.  I have had many creative insights like this while under the influence of cannabis.  Your scenario certainly would hold more weight and be more believable than the narrative story given to us in the Bible.

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Posted: 17 March 2012 08:43 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]  
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0username0 - 26 January 2012 12:50 PM

Why not resurrect 1000 times if need be, if your message is so damn important to the human race and you can resurrect, why not just keep resurrecting until they get the point that you can’t be killed unless you want to be.  Every time they try to put you in a box to seal you off, just have the archangels come back and let you out again?  If Jesus truly was such a supremely evolved being that he gained the empowerment of resurrection over many lifetimes of karma (one theory I’ve heard), or Gods message was really that important (God doing all the work), a one time resurrection where you are just seen by your old friends seems pretty damn lame.  Some might suggest that it’s because as Jesus said, that we’re so damn evil, we don’t deserve to see miracles, that only Jesus’ friends were good enough to see the miracles.  If a message is really that important, I would think the wicked would turn good pretty damn quick if they kept seeing you come back from the dead and what you said actually made sense.

Point being.  Jesus did not resurrect.

there is POWERFUL historical evidence for the ressurrection of Christ.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAxPHWF8aec

God has given enough light to the ones, that search him, and enough darkness to the ones, that reject him. Its not in Gods interest to prove himself to all humanity. We have general revelation ( nature ), and specific revelation ( the word of God, the bible ) for his existence. That is enough, and make any human person able to aknowledge, and to know God.

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Posted: 17 March 2012 08:46 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]  
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QuakePhil - 30 January 2012 09:43 AM

Why even bother with resurrection and the barbarity of human sacrifice.


This isn’t original to me - but what if Jesus never died?  What if he never aged, was impervious to injury, etc, etc, and just chilled in middle east somewhere since the time of the bible Wouldn’t his message then actually carry weight?
.

then most probably there would not such a religion, as christianity.

http://www.tektonics.org/lp/nowayjose.html

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Posted: 03 April 2012 04:40 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]  
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Lindoia - 17 March 2012 08:43 AM
0username0 - 26 January 2012 12:50 PM

Why not resurrect 1000 times if need be, if your message is so damn important to the human race and you can resurrect, why not just keep resurrecting until they get the point that you can’t be killed unless you want to be.  Every time they try to put you in a box to seal you off, just have the archangels come back and let you out again?  If Jesus truly was such a supremely evolved being that he gained the empowerment of resurrection over many lifetimes of karma (one theory I’ve heard), or Gods message was really that important (God doing all the work), a one time resurrection where you are just seen by your old friends seems pretty damn lame.  Some might suggest that it’s because as Jesus said, that we’re so damn evil, we don’t deserve to see miracles, that only Jesus’ friends were good enough to see the miracles.  If a message is really that important, I would think the wicked would turn good pretty damn quick if they kept seeing you come back from the dead and what you said actually made sense.

Point being.  Jesus did not resurrect.

there is POWERFUL historical evidence for the ressurrection of Christ.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAxPHWF8aec

God has given enough light to the ones, that search him, and enough darkness to the ones, that reject him. Its not in Gods interest to prove himself to all humanity. We have general revelation ( nature ), and specific revelation ( the word of God, the bible ) for his existence. That is enough, and make any human person able to aknowledge, and to know God.

 

I hope he wasn’t really real!
:-0

The Not so Nice Jesus

Why Jesus?

Jesus has been held in high regard by Christians and non-Christians alike. Regardless of whether he existed in history, or whether he was divine, many have asserted that the New Testament Christ character was the highest example of moral living. Many believe that his teachings, if truly understood and followed, would make this a better world.

Is this true? Does Jesus merit the widespread adoration he has received? Let’s look at what he said and did.
Was Jesus Peaceable And Compassionate?

The birth of Jesus was heralded with “Peace on Earth,” yet Jesus said, “Think not that I am come to send peace: I came not to send peace but a sword.” (Matthew 10:34) “He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.” (Luke 22:36) “But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.” (Luke 19:27. In a parable, but spoken of favorably.)

The burning of unbelievers during the Inquisition was based on the words of Jesus: “If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.” (John 15:6)

Jesus looked at his critics “with anger” (Mark 3:5), and attacked merchants with a whip (John 2:15). He showed his respect for life by drowning innocent animals (Matthew 8:32). He refused to heal a sick child until he was pressured by the mother (Matthew 15:22-28).

The most revealing aspect of his character was his promotion of eternal torment. “The Son of man [Jesus himself] shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.” (Matthew 13:41-42) “And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched.” (Mark 9:43)

Is this nice? Is it exemplary to make your point with threats of violence? Is hell a kind, peaceful idea?
Did Jesus Promote “Family Values”?

“If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.” (Luke 14:26)

“I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household.” (Matthew 10:35-36)

When one of his disciples requested time off for his father’s funeral, Jesus rebuked him: “Let the dead bury their dead.” (Matthew 8:22)

Jesus never used the word “family.” He never married or fathered children. To his own mother, he said, “Woman, what have I to do with thee?” (John 2:4)
What Were His Views On Equality And Social Justice?

Jesus encouraged the beating of slaves: “And that servant [slave], which knew his lord’s will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.” (Luke 12:47) He never denounced servitude, incorporating the master-slave relationship into many of his parables.

He did nothing to alleviate poverty. Rather than sell some expensive ointment to help the poor, Jesus wasted it on himself, saying, “Ye have the poor with you always.” (Mark 14:3-7)

No women were chosen as disciples or invited to the Last Supper.
What Moral Advice Did Jesus Give?

“There be eunuchs which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.” (Matthew 19:12) Some believers, including church father Origen, took this verse literally and castrated themselves. Even metaphorically, this advice is in poor taste.

  If you do something wrong with your eye or hand, cut/pluck it off (Matthew 5:29-30, in a sexual context).
  Marrying a divorced woman is adultery. (Matthew 5:32)
  Don’t plan for the future. (Matthew 6:34)
  Don’t save money. (Matthew 6:19-20)
  Don’t become wealthy. (Mark 10:21-25)
  Sell everything and give it to the poor. (Luke 12:33)
  Don’t work to obtain food. (John 6:27)
  Don’t have sexual urges. (Matthew 5:28)
  Make people want to persecute you. (Matthew 5:11)
  Let everyone know you are better than the rest. (Matthew 5:13-16)
  Take money from those who have no savings and give it to rich investors. (Luke 19:23-26)
  If someone steals from you, don’t try to get it back. (Luke 6:30)
  If someone hits you, invite them to do it again. (Matthew 5:39)
  If you lose a lawsuit, give more than the judgment. (Matthew 5:40)
  If someone forces you to walk a mile, walk two miles. (Matthew 5:41)
  If anyone asks you for anything, give it to them without question. (Matthew 5:42)

Is this wise? Is this what you would teach your children?
Was Jesus Reliable?

Jesus told his disciples that they would not die before his second coming: “There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom” (Matthew 16:28). “Behold, I come quickly.” (Revelation 3:11) It’s been 2,000 years, and believers are still waiting for his “quick” return.

He mistakenly claimed that the mustard seed is “the least of all seeds” (Matt. 13:32), and that salt could “lose its savour” (Matthew 5:13).

Jesus said that whoever calls somebody a “fool” shall be in danger of hell fire (Matthew 5:22), yet he called people “fools” himself (Matthew 23:17).

Regarding his own truthfulness, Jesus gave two conflicting opinions: “If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true” (John 5:31), and “Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true” (John 8:14).
Was Jesus A Good Example?

He irrationally cursed a fig tree for being fruitless out of season (Matthew 21:18-19, and Mark 11:13-14). He broke the law by stealing corn on the Sabbath (Mark 2:23), and he encouraged his disciples to take a horse without asking permission (Matthew 21).

The “humble” Jesus said that he was “greater than the temple” (Matt 12:6), “greater than Jonah” (Matthew 12:41), and “greater than Solomon” (Matthew 12:42). He appeared to suffer from a dictator’s “paranoia” when he said, “He that is not with me is against me” (Matthew 12:30).
Why Jesus?

Although other verses can be cited that portray Jesus in a different light, they do not erase the disturbing side of his character. The conflicting passages, however, prove that the New Testament is contradictory.

The “Golden Rule” had been said many times by earlier religious leaders. (Confucius: “Do not unto others that you would not have them do unto you.”) “Turn the other cheek” encourages victims to invite further violence. “Love thy neighbor” applied only to fellow believers. (Neither the Jews nor Jesus showed much love to foreign religions). A few of the Beatitudes (“Blessed are the peacemakers”) are acceptable, but they are all conditions of future reward, not based on respect for human life or values.

On the whole, Jesus said little that was worthwhile. He introduced nothing new to ethics (except hell). He instituted no social programs. Being “omniscient,” he could have shared some useful science or medicine, but he appeared ignorant of such things (as if his character were merely the invention of writers stuck in the first century).

Many scholars are doubtful of the historical existence of Jesus. Albert Schweitzer said, “The historical Jesus will be to our time a stranger and an enigma.” No first-century writer confirms the Jesus story. The New Testament is internally contradictory and contains historical errors. The story is filled with miracles and other outrageous claims. Consisting mostly of material borrowed from pagan religions, the Jesus story appears to be cut from the same fabric as all other myths and fables.

Why is Jesus so special? It would be more reasonable and productive to emulate real, flesh-and-blood human beings who have contributed to humanity—mothers who have given birth, scientists who have alleviated suffering, social reformers who have fought injustice—than to worship a character of such dubious qualities as Jesus.

Published by Freedom from Religion Inc.

http://www.ffrf.org/nontracts/jesus.html

 

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Posted: 03 April 2012 05:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]  
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toombaru - 03 April 2012 04:40 PM
Lindoia - 17 March 2012 08:43 AM
0username0 - 26 January 2012 12:50 PM

Why not resurrect 1000 times if need be, if your message is so damn important to the human race and you can resurrect, why not just keep resurrecting until they get the point that you can’t be killed unless you want to be.  Every time they try to put you in a box to seal you off, just have the archangels come back and let you out again?  If Jesus truly was such a supremely evolved being that he gained the empowerment of resurrection over many lifetimes of karma (one theory I’ve heard), or Gods message was really that important (God doing all the work), a one time resurrection where you are just seen by your old friends seems pretty damn lame.  Some might suggest that it’s because as Jesus said, that we’re so damn evil, we don’t deserve to see miracles, that only Jesus’ friends were good enough to see the miracles.  If a message is really that important, I would think the wicked would turn good pretty damn quick if they kept seeing you come back from the dead and what you said actually made sense.

Point being.  Jesus did not resurrect.

there is POWERFUL historical evidence for the ressurrection of Christ.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAxPHWF8aec

God has given enough light to the ones, that search him, and enough darkness to the ones, that reject him. Its not in Gods interest to prove himself to all humanity. We have general revelation ( nature ), and specific revelation ( the word of God, the bible ) for his existence. That is enough, and make any human person able to aknowledge, and to know God.

 

I hope he wasn’t really real!
:-0

The Not so Nice Jesus

Why Jesus?

Jesus has been held in high regard by Christians and non-Christians alike. Regardless of whether he existed in history, or whether he was divine, many have asserted that the New Testament Christ character was the highest example of moral living. Many believe that his teachings, if truly understood and followed, would make this a better world.

Is this true? Does Jesus merit the widespread adoration he has received? Let’s look at what he said and did.
Was Jesus Peaceable And Compassionate?

The birth of Jesus was heralded with “Peace on Earth,” yet Jesus said, “Think not that I am come to send peace: I came not to send peace but a sword.” (Matthew 10:34) “He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.” (Luke 22:36) “But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.” (Luke 19:27. In a parable, but spoken of favorably.)

The burning of unbelievers during the Inquisition was based on the words of Jesus: “If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.” (John 15:6)

Jesus looked at his critics “with anger” (Mark 3:5), and attacked merchants with a whip (John 2:15). He showed his respect for life by drowning innocent animals (Matthew 8:32). He refused to heal a sick child until he was pressured by the mother (Matthew 15:22-28).

The most revealing aspect of his character was his promotion of eternal torment. “The Son of man [Jesus himself] shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.” (Matthew 13:41-42) “And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched.” (Mark 9:43)

Is this nice? Is it exemplary to make your point with threats of violence? Is hell a kind, peaceful idea?
Did Jesus Promote “Family Values”?

“If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.” (Luke 14:26)

“I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household.” (Matthew 10:35-36)

When one of his disciples requested time off for his father’s funeral, Jesus rebuked him: “Let the dead bury their dead.” (Matthew 8:22)

Jesus never used the word “family.” He never married or fathered children. To his own mother, he said, “Woman, what have I to do with thee?” (John 2:4)
What Were His Views On Equality And Social Justice?

Jesus encouraged the beating of slaves: “And that servant [slave], which knew his lord’s will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.” (Luke 12:47) He never denounced servitude, incorporating the master-slave relationship into many of his parables.

He did nothing to alleviate poverty. Rather than sell some expensive ointment to help the poor, Jesus wasted it on himself, saying, “Ye have the poor with you always.” (Mark 14:3-7)

No women were chosen as disciples or invited to the Last Supper.
What Moral Advice Did Jesus Give?

“There be eunuchs which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.” (Matthew 19:12) Some believers, including church father Origen, took this verse literally and castrated themselves. Even metaphorically, this advice is in poor taste.

  If you do something wrong with your eye or hand, cut/pluck it off (Matthew 5:29-30, in a sexual context).
  Marrying a divorced woman is adultery. (Matthew 5:32)
  Don’t plan for the future. (Matthew 6:34)
  Don’t save money. (Matthew 6:19-20)
  Don’t become wealthy. (Mark 10:21-25)
  Sell everything and give it to the poor. (Luke 12:33)
  Don’t work to obtain food. (John 6:27)
  Don’t have sexual urges. (Matthew 5:28)
  Make people want to persecute you. (Matthew 5:11)
  Let everyone know you are better than the rest. (Matthew 5:13-16)
  Take money from those who have no savings and give it to rich investors. (Luke 19:23-26)
  If someone steals from you, don’t try to get it back. (Luke 6:30)
  If someone hits you, invite them to do it again. (Matthew 5:39)
  If you lose a lawsuit, give more than the judgment. (Matthew 5:40)
  If someone forces you to walk a mile, walk two miles. (Matthew 5:41)
  If anyone asks you for anything, give it to them without question. (Matthew 5:42)

Is this wise? Is this what you would teach your children?
Was Jesus Reliable?

Jesus told his disciples that they would not die before his second coming: “There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom” (Matthew 16:28). “Behold, I come quickly.” (Revelation 3:11) It’s been 2,000 years, and believers are still waiting for his “quick” return.

He mistakenly claimed that the mustard seed is “the least of all seeds” (Matt. 13:32), and that salt could “lose its savour” (Matthew 5:13).

Jesus said that whoever calls somebody a “fool” shall be in danger of hell fire (Matthew 5:22), yet he called people “fools” himself (Matthew 23:17).

Regarding his own truthfulness, Jesus gave two conflicting opinions: “If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true” (John 5:31), and “Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true” (John 8:14).
Was Jesus A Good Example?

He irrationally cursed a fig tree for being fruitless out of season (Matthew 21:18-19, and Mark 11:13-14). He broke the law by stealing corn on the Sabbath (Mark 2:23), and he encouraged his disciples to take a horse without asking permission (Matthew 21).

The “humble” Jesus said that he was “greater than the temple” (Matt 12:6), “greater than Jonah” (Matthew 12:41), and “greater than Solomon” (Matthew 12:42). He appeared to suffer from a dictator’s “paranoia” when he said, “He that is not with me is against me” (Matthew 12:30).
Why Jesus?

Although other verses can be cited that portray Jesus in a different light, they do not erase the disturbing side of his character. The conflicting passages, however, prove that the New Testament is contradictory.

The “Golden Rule” had been said many times by earlier religious leaders. (Confucius: “Do not unto others that you would not have them do unto you.”) “Turn the other cheek” encourages victims to invite further violence. “Love thy neighbor” applied only to fellow believers. (Neither the Jews nor Jesus showed much love to foreign religions). A few of the Beatitudes (“Blessed are the peacemakers”) are acceptable, but they are all conditions of future reward, not based on respect for human life or values.

On the whole, Jesus said little that was worthwhile. He introduced nothing new to ethics (except hell). He instituted no social programs. Being “omniscient,” he could have shared some useful science or medicine, but he appeared ignorant of such things (as if his character were merely the invention of writers stuck in the first century).

Many scholars are doubtful of the historical existence of Jesus. Albert Schweitzer said, “The historical Jesus will be to our time a stranger and an enigma.” No first-century writer confirms the Jesus story. The New Testament is internally contradictory and contains historical errors. The story is filled with miracles and other outrageous claims. Consisting mostly of material borrowed from pagan religions, the Jesus story appears to be cut from the same fabric as all other myths and fables.

Why is Jesus so special? It would be more reasonable and productive to emulate real, flesh-and-blood human beings who have contributed to humanity—mothers who have given birth, scientists who have alleviated suffering, social reformers who have fought injustice—than to worship a character of such dubious qualities as Jesus.

Published by Freedom from Religion Inc.

http://www.ffrf.org/nontracts/jesus.html

 

if it makes you feel good to believe such bollocks, go ahead. To me, its not worth for consideration or comment.

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Posted: 03 April 2012 05:23 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]  
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Lindoia - 03 April 2012 05:08 PM
toombaru - 03 April 2012 04:40 PM
Lindoia - 17 March 2012 08:43 AM
0username0 - 26 January 2012 12:50 PM

Why not resurrect 1000 times if need be, if your message is so damn important to the human race and you can resurrect, why not just keep resurrecting until they get the point that you can’t be killed unless you want to be.  Every time they try to put you in a box to seal you off, just have the archangels come back and let you out again?  If Jesus truly was such a supremely evolved being that he gained the empowerment of resurrection over many lifetimes of karma (one theory I’ve heard), or Gods message was really that important (God doing all the work), a one time resurrection where you are just seen by your old friends seems pretty damn lame.  Some might suggest that it’s because as Jesus said, that we’re so damn evil, we don’t deserve to see miracles, that only Jesus’ friends were good enough to see the miracles.  If a message is really that important, I would think the wicked would turn good pretty damn quick if they kept seeing you come back from the dead and what you said actually made sense.

Point being.  Jesus did not resurrect.

there is POWERFUL historical evidence for the ressurrection of Christ.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAxPHWF8aec

God has given enough light to the ones, that search him, and enough darkness to the ones, that reject him. Its not in Gods interest to prove himself to all humanity. We have general revelation ( nature ), and specific revelation ( the word of God, the bible ) for his existence. That is enough, and make any human person able to aknowledge, and to know God.

 

I hope he wasn’t really real!
:-0

The Not so Nice Jesus

Why Jesus?

Jesus has been held in high regard by Christians and non-Christians alike. Regardless of whether he existed in history, or whether he was divine, many have asserted that the New Testament Christ character was the highest example of moral living. Many believe that his teachings, if truly understood and followed, would make this a better world.

Is this true? Does Jesus merit the widespread adoration he has received? Let’s look at what he said and did.
Was Jesus Peaceable And Compassionate?

The birth of Jesus was heralded with “Peace on Earth,” yet Jesus said, “Think not that I am come to send peace: I came not to send peace but a sword.” (Matthew 10:34) “He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.” (Luke 22:36) “But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.” (Luke 19:27. In a parable, but spoken of favorably.)

The burning of unbelievers during the Inquisition was based on the words of Jesus: “If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.” (John 15:6)

Jesus looked at his critics “with anger” (Mark 3:5), and attacked merchants with a whip (John 2:15). He showed his respect for life by drowning innocent animals (Matthew 8:32). He refused to heal a sick child until he was pressured by the mother (Matthew 15:22-28).

The most revealing aspect of his character was his promotion of eternal torment. “The Son of man [Jesus himself] shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.” (Matthew 13:41-42) “And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched.” (Mark 9:43)

Is this nice? Is it exemplary to make your point with threats of violence? Is hell a kind, peaceful idea?
Did Jesus Promote “Family Values”?

“If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.” (Luke 14:26)

“I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household.” (Matthew 10:35-36)

When one of his disciples requested time off for his father’s funeral, Jesus rebuked him: “Let the dead bury their dead.” (Matthew 8:22)

Jesus never used the word “family.” He never married or fathered children. To his own mother, he said, “Woman, what have I to do with thee?” (John 2:4)
What Were His Views On Equality And Social Justice?

Jesus encouraged the beating of slaves: “And that servant [slave], which knew his lord’s will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.” (Luke 12:47) He never denounced servitude, incorporating the master-slave relationship into many of his parables.

He did nothing to alleviate poverty. Rather than sell some expensive ointment to help the poor, Jesus wasted it on himself, saying, “Ye have the poor with you always.” (Mark 14:3-7)

No women were chosen as disciples or invited to the Last Supper.
What Moral Advice Did Jesus Give?

“There be eunuchs which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.” (Matthew 19:12) Some believers, including church father Origen, took this verse literally and castrated themselves. Even metaphorically, this advice is in poor taste.

  If you do something wrong with your eye or hand, cut/pluck it off (Matthew 5:29-30, in a sexual context).
  Marrying a divorced woman is adultery. (Matthew 5:32)
  Don’t plan for the future. (Matthew 6:34)
  Don’t save money. (Matthew 6:19-20)
  Don’t become wealthy. (Mark 10:21-25)
  Sell everything and give it to the poor. (Luke 12:33)
  Don’t work to obtain food. (John 6:27)
  Don’t have sexual urges. (Matthew 5:28)
  Make people want to persecute you. (Matthew 5:11)
  Let everyone know you are better than the rest. (Matthew 5:13-16)
  Take money from those who have no savings and give it to rich investors. (Luke 19:23-26)
  If someone steals from you, don’t try to get it back. (Luke 6:30)
  If someone hits you, invite them to do it again. (Matthew 5:39)
  If you lose a lawsuit, give more than the judgment. (Matthew 5:40)
  If someone forces you to walk a mile, walk two miles. (Matthew 5:41)
  If anyone asks you for anything, give it to them without question. (Matthew 5:42)

Is this wise? Is this what you would teach your children?
Was Jesus Reliable?

Jesus told his disciples that they would not die before his second coming: “There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom” (Matthew 16:28). “Behold, I come quickly.” (Revelation 3:11) It’s been 2,000 years, and believers are still waiting for his “quick” return.

He mistakenly claimed that the mustard seed is “the least of all seeds” (Matt. 13:32), and that salt could “lose its savour” (Matthew 5:13).

Jesus said that whoever calls somebody a “fool” shall be in danger of hell fire (Matthew 5:22), yet he called people “fools” himself (Matthew 23:17).

Regarding his own truthfulness, Jesus gave two conflicting opinions: “If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true” (John 5:31), and “Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true” (John 8:14).
Was Jesus A Good Example?

He irrationally cursed a fig tree for being fruitless out of season (Matthew 21:18-19, and Mark 11:13-14). He broke the law by stealing corn on the Sabbath (Mark 2:23), and he encouraged his disciples to take a horse without asking permission (Matthew 21).

The “humble” Jesus said that he was “greater than the temple” (Matt 12:6), “greater than Jonah” (Matthew 12:41), and “greater than Solomon” (Matthew 12:42). He appeared to suffer from a dictator’s “paranoia” when he said, “He that is not with me is against me” (Matthew 12:30).
Why Jesus?

Although other verses can be cited that portray Jesus in a different light, they do not erase the disturbing side of his character. The conflicting passages, however, prove that the New Testament is contradictory.

The “Golden Rule” had been said many times by earlier religious leaders. (Confucius: “Do not unto others that you would not have them do unto you.”) “Turn the other cheek” encourages victims to invite further violence. “Love thy neighbor” applied only to fellow believers. (Neither the Jews nor Jesus showed much love to foreign religions). A few of the Beatitudes (“Blessed are the peacemakers”) are acceptable, but they are all conditions of future reward, not based on respect for human life or values.

On the whole, Jesus said little that was worthwhile. He introduced nothing new to ethics (except hell). He instituted no social programs. Being “omniscient,” he could have shared some useful science or medicine, but he appeared ignorant of such things (as if his character were merely the invention of writers stuck in the first century).

Many scholars are doubtful of the historical existence of Jesus. Albert Schweitzer said, “The historical Jesus will be to our time a stranger and an enigma.” No first-century writer confirms the Jesus story. The New Testament is internally contradictory and contains historical errors. The story is filled with miracles and other outrageous claims. Consisting mostly of material borrowed from pagan religions, the Jesus story appears to be cut from the same fabric as all other myths and fables.

Why is Jesus so special? It would be more reasonable and productive to emulate real, flesh-and-blood human beings who have contributed to humanity—mothers who have given birth, scientists who have alleviated suffering, social reformers who have fought injustice—than to worship a character of such dubious qualities as Jesus.

Published by Freedom from Religion Inc.

http://www.ffrf.org/nontracts/jesus.html

 

if it makes you feel good to believe such bollocks, go ahead. To me, its not worth for consideration or comment.

 

You should never let logic interfere with your faith.
Actually they are antithetical.
Keep your Jesus if you must…..but for Christ’s sake look into what he really promoted and don’t just cherry pick the good stuff.
And while you’re at it, do some honest research into the true nature of Gandhi, Mother Teresa and Martin Luther King.

 

 

 

 

[ Edited: 03 April 2012 07:49 PM by toombaru]
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Posted: 03 April 2012 05:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]  
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toombaru - 03 April 2012 05:23 PM

if it makes you feel good to believe such bollocks, go ahead. To me, its not worth for consideration or comment.

You should never let logic interfere with your faith.
Actually they are antithetical.
Keep you Jesus if you must…..but for Christ’s sake look into what he really promoted and don’t just cherry pick the good stuff.
And while you’re at it do some honest research into the true nature of Gandhi, Mother Teresa and Martin Luther King.

If you want to know what jesus promoted, you can have a read here :

http://www.access-jesus.com/christian-values.html

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Posted: 03 April 2012 07:54 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]  
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Lindoia - 03 April 2012 05:30 PM
toombaru - 03 April 2012 05:23 PM

if it makes you feel good to believe such bollocks, go ahead. To me, its not worth for consideration or comment.

You should never let logic interfere with your faith.
Actually they are antithetical.
Keep you Jesus if you must…..but for Christ’s sake look into what he really promoted and don’t just cherry pick the good stuff.
And while you’re at it do some honest research into the true nature of Gandhi, Mother Teresa and Martin Luther King.

If you want to know what jesus promoted, you can have a read here :

http://www.access-jesus.com/christian-values.html


If Jesus can heal the blind, why can’t he heal blindness?
How can you reconcile a loving creator with the suffering world?

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Posted: 03 April 2012 09:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]  
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toombaru - 03 April 2012 07:54 PM

If Jesus can heal the blind, why can’t he heal blindness?
How can you reconcile a loving creator with the suffering world?

sorry, if i will not answer your question by myself. I think i would have to extend too long. So i will post a link, which does
endorse my view.

http://creation.com/why-is-there-death-and-suffering

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Posted: 04 April 2012 01:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]  
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Lindoia - 03 April 2012 09:13 PM
toombaru - 03 April 2012 07:54 PM

If Jesus can heal the blind, why can’t he heal blindness?
How can you reconcile a loving creator with the suffering world?

sorry, if i will not answer your question by myself. I think i would have to extend too long. So i will post a link, which does
endorse my view.

http://creation.com/why-is-there-death-and-suffering


Those arguments have been refuted so many times it is useless to debate further.
If you are brave enough do some of your own research and stop listening to the religious con artists.
No one really believes in God.
It’s just too ridiculous.
“Believers” have to go to church every week to reinforce their hope.
You are entrapped in a cult and like all cult members, you have built up defenses against any logical thinking that would strip away your shared delusion.
Your assumptions are no more valid than those of Tom Cruise, James Jones or for that matter, Billy Graham.
There is simply no evidence to support the belief in a creator god and in fact the evidence indicates there is no such thing.
Read the Bible all the way through.
That should be more than enough to convince any thinking person it is merely composed of fables created by a fear-base (human) mind.

 

Perhaps you could answer one question:

How does Jesus being tortured to death pay for my sins that any all knowing god would have known beforehand that I was going to do?

And did god really kill his son?

It seem that he went right back home after he was crucified.

Answer if you can.

So far no one in the history or of this incredible hoax has been able to do that simple task.

 

[ Edited: 04 April 2012 03:02 PM by toombaru]
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Posted: 04 April 2012 01:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]  
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toombaru - 04 April 2012 01:03 PM

you have built up defenses against any logical thinking that would strip away your shared delusion.

So, how about then, you start and make a positive case for naturalism ? what are your arguments ? just beating on theism won’t do it.

Your assumptions are no more valid than those of Tom Cruise, James Jones or for that matter, Billy Graham.

So yours are why , exactly ?

There is simply no evidence to support the belief in a creator god

So for naturalism, there is ? if so, please present it. I am all ears.

How does Jesus being tortured to death pay for my sins that any all knowing god would have known beforehand that I was going to do?

where relies your problem in that regard ?

 

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Posted: 04 April 2012 02:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]  
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Lindoia - 04 April 2012 01:13 PM
toombaru - 04 April 2012 01:03 PM

you have built up defenses against any logical thinking that would strip away your shared delusion.

So, how about then, you start and make a positive case for naturalism ? what are your arguments ? just beating on theism won’t do it.

Nature makes the case for naturalism.
It can be observed, studied, evaluated over time.
Observations can be shared and their relevance can be determined or discounted.
Nothing similar can be said of creationism.
All religion can say is about the nature of things is “That’s the way God wants it.” , “God’s ways are mysterious” or something equally inane.

Your assumptions are no more valid than those of Tom Cruise, James Jones or for that matter, Billy Graham.

So yours are why , exactly ?


Mine are based on the observation of actual things.
The things you espouse are based an faith.

There is simply no evidence to support the belief in a creator god

So for naturalism, there is ? if so, please present it. I am all ears.


A hummingbird can be held and studied.
Try that with your god or his angels.
You ask Jesus to save a two year old with brain cancer…...I will ask a medical doctor.
Let’s see what helps the most.
Are you willing to put you money where you faith is?
Perhaps Jesus can cast her demons out and put them in a herd of pigs.
He’s supposed to be good at that kind of thing.

 

 

 

 

How does Jesus being tortured to death pay for my sins that any all knowing god would have known beforehand that I was going to do?

where relies your problem in that regard ?

 

 

I have a problem when the possible future President of the United States believes that he will eventually be the God of his very own planet, wears magic pajamas or thinks that homosexuals are abhorred by the creator that made them.
I have a problem with people who fall hook, line and sinker for bronze age thinking.
I have a problem with a belief system that tells us that women are second class citizens and that children should be killed for talking back to their parents.
I have a problem when I am told that God is composed of a father, a son and a holy ghost and no one….....no one….... is able to explain that.

 

[ Edited: 04 April 2012 03:07 PM by toombaru]
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Posted: 04 April 2012 03:16 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]  
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toombaru - 04 April 2012 02:59 PM
Lindoia - 04 April 2012 01:13 PM
toombaru - 04 April 2012 01:03 PM

you have built up defenses against any logical thinking that would strip away your shared delusion.

So, how about then, you start and make a positive case for naturalism ? what are your arguments ? just beating on theism won’t do it.

Nature makes the case for naturalism.
It can be observed, studied, evaluated over time.
Observations can be shared and their relevance can be determined or discounted.
Nothing similar can be said of creationism.
All religion can say is about the nature of things is “That’s the way God wants it.” , “God’s ways are mysterious” or something equally inane.

Your assumptions are no more valid than those of Tom Cruise, James Jones or for that matter, Billy Graham.

So yours are why , exactly ?


Mine are based on the observation of actual things.
The things you espouse are based an faith.

There is simply no evidence to support the belief in a creator god

So for naturalism, there is ? if so, please present it. I am all ears.


A hummingbird can be held and studied.
Try that with your god or his angels.
You ask Jesus to save a two year old with brain cancer…...I will ask a medical doctor.
Let’s see what helps the most.
Are you willing to put you money where you faith is?
Perhaps Jesus can cast her demons out and put them in a herd of pigs.
He’s supposed to be good at that kind of thing.

 

 

 

 

How does Jesus being tortured to death pay for my sins that any all knowing god would have known beforehand that I was going to do?

where relies your problem in that regard ?

 

 

I have a problem when the possible future President of the United States believes that he will eventually be the God of his very own planet, wears magic pajamas or thinks that homosexuals are abhorred by the creator that made them.
I have a problem with people who fall hook, line and sinker for bronze age thinking.
I have a problem with a belief system that tells us that women are second class citizens and that children should be killed for talking back to their parents.
I have a problem when I am told that God is composed of a father, a son and a holy ghost and no one….....no one….... is able to explain that.

 


.....And I have a problem with people who are too frightened or too timid to stand up and say something when those entrapped in religious fanaticism spew their delusions that diminishes the only life we will ever have and gaze with glazed eyes off into an imaginary future cuddling up to the beastly God of the Bible.
I am tired of being politically correct to idiots.

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