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Mormons in Politics
Posted: 21 September 2012 01:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 61 ]  
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Science and philosophy have made religion obsolete, and any gains humanity has made in technology are in spite of religion.  We have no need for the supernatural, and never have.

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Posted: 21 September 2012 01:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 62 ]  
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Skipshot - 21 September 2012 01:21 PM

Science and philosophy have made religion obsolete, and any gains humanity has made in technology are in spite of religion.  We have no need for the supernatural, and never have.


Those who imagine themselves to be logical thinkers have made science into new religion.
They assume that science will be able to cure the ills of humanity.
How’s it been doing so far?
It has killed more people than religion.
“Scientists” are as delusional as the religious fanatics.

 

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Posted: 21 September 2012 01:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 63 ]  
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You forgot to criticize the philosophy side of my post.

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Posted: 21 September 2012 01:56 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 64 ]  
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toombaru - 21 September 2012 01:34 PM
Skipshot - 21 September 2012 01:21 PM

Science and philosophy have made religion obsolete, and any gains humanity has made in technology are in spite of religion.  We have no need for the supernatural, and never have.


Those who imagine themselves to be logical thinkers have made science into new religion.
They assume that science will be able to cure the ills of humanity.
How’s it been doing so far?
It has killed more people than religion.
“Scientists” are as delusional as the religious fanatics.

 

Strawman.  We don’t believe that.  We believe science is our best bet, and have good reason to.

[ Edited: 21 September 2012 02:01 PM by Ice Monkey]
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What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof.
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I prefer the full-on embrace of reality to the spiritual masturbation that is religion.
~ S.A. Ladoucier

I think the world is being much helped by the suffering of the poor people
~ M. Teresa, Fruitcake of Calcutta

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Posted: 21 September 2012 02:43 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 65 ]  
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It has killed more people than religion.

>>>An absurd, false statement!  Since when has science been the enemy?  Since the atom bomb, mankind has experienced the greatest era of peace and decline of violence!  Look at the facts not the nightly news!  I have seen statistics that indicate that governments kill more people, even their own citizens than any other organization in history.  Politicians perverting science have done some major damage.

[ Edited: 21 September 2012 07:26 PM by mormovies]
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Posted: 21 September 2012 05:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 66 ]  
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Ice Monkey - 21 September 2012 01:56 PM
toombaru - 21 September 2012 01:34 PM
Skipshot - 21 September 2012 01:21 PM

Science and philosophy have made religion obsolete, and any gains humanity has made in technology are in spite of religion.  We have no need for the supernatural, and never have.


Those who imagine themselves to be logical thinkers have made science into new religion.
They assume that science will be able to cure the ills of humanity.
How’s it been doing so far?
It has killed more people than religion.
“Scientists” are as delusional as the religious fanatics.

 

Strawman.  We don’t believe that.  We believe science is our best bet, and have good reason to.


How’s it workin out for ya?
:-0

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Posted: 21 September 2012 05:27 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 67 ]  
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toombaru - 21 September 2012 05:17 PM
Ice Monkey - 21 September 2012 01:56 PM
toombaru - 21 September 2012 01:34 PM
Skipshot - 21 September 2012 01:21 PM

Science and philosophy have made religion obsolete, and any gains humanity has made in technology are in spite of religion.  We have no need for the supernatural, and never have.


Those who imagine themselves to be logical thinkers have made science into new religion.
They assume that science will be able to cure the ills of humanity.
How’s it been doing so far?
It has killed more people than religion.
“Scientists” are as delusional as the religious fanatics.

 

Strawman.  We don’t believe that.  We believe science is our best bet, and have good reason to.


How’s it workin out for ya?
:-0

Still in first place.

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What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof.
~ Hitch

I prefer the full-on embrace of reality to the spiritual masturbation that is religion.
~ S.A. Ladoucier

I think the world is being much helped by the suffering of the poor people
~ M. Teresa, Fruitcake of Calcutta

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Posted: 21 September 2012 05:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 68 ]  
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mormovies - 21 September 2012 02:43 PM

It has killed more people than religion.

>>>An absurd, false statement!  Since when has science been the enemy?  Since the atom bomb, mankind has experienced the greatest era of peace and violence!  Look at the facts not the nightly news!  I have seen statistics that indicate that governments kill more people, even their own citizens than any other organization in history.  Politicians perverting science have done some major damage.

Deep in the human psyche ferments a Massiah complex.
In infants the neurons become configured to expect help from an outside powerful force.(parents).
In adults this need for help can express itself as the hope for metaphysical intervention or as the thinking that science will save the day.
The lunacy of green alternative energy is a good example.
Wind, solar, ethanol, hydrogen powered cars, are examples of the human mind’s penchant for pie in the sky schemes that “science”  promotes.

 

[ Edited: 21 September 2012 07:44 PM by toombaru]
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Posted: 21 September 2012 07:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 69 ]  
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I agree with some of your points but I would argue that you detest politicized ‘pseudo’ science.  So do I.  Everything under the guise of science is not science.  Also, science doesn’t claim to get everything right immediately.  There is no third choice.  It’s either developing belief based on faith in the supernatural or scientific evidence.

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Posted: 21 September 2012 07:47 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 70 ]  
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mormovies - 21 September 2012 07:28 PM

I agree with some of your points but I would argue that you detest politicized ‘pseudo’ science.  So do I.  Everything under the guise of science is not science.  Also, science doesn’t claim to get everything right immediately.  There is no third choice.  It’s either developing belief based on faith in the supernatural or scientific evidence.


Granted.
I’m just suggesting that relying on science and scientists to rescue us can be ts own form of illogical thought.

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Posted: 21 September 2012 09:47 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 71 ]  
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mormovies - 20 September 2012 08:00 AM

To defend Mormonism on any level is irrelevant.  Some religions actually get things right but by accident, not by reason or acknowledging reality.  The reason we’re mostly here is because Sam wrote a book called END OF FAITH.  You should read it.  It’s faith, the basis of all religion and mystical thinking, that is the culprit.  Mormonism is just one example of man’s history of madness with regard to cults and religions.  None are worthy of actual respect.

I’m not defending Mormons anymore than I would try to defend the use of caps lock in a post.  What I’m arguing against is unwarranted prejudice, Mormons just happen to be the current target of that prejudice.  And also against bad logic.  Sam’s recent equivocation that they are objectively less likely to be right than regular Christianity is a logical error, and one that a person of his reputation should be embarrassed to make. 


If I believe that Sauron will return to Middle Earth and rule for a 1000 years from Hobbiton, am I objectively less likely to be right than those who believe he will rule from Mount Doom?  By the way, I use those terms because J.R.R. wrote a book called LORD OF THE RINGS.  You should read it.

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Posted: 21 September 2012 10:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 72 ]  
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TheCoolinator - 21 September 2012 09:47 PM

What I’m arguing against is unwarranted prejudice, Mormons just happen to be the current target of that prejudice.

Prejudice of what? 

I’m prejudiced against all religions with the exception of Islam which just needs to be quarantined altogether since they have a strong propensity for violence to boot.  If someone wants the job of president then of course their background is going to be under a microscope, including his religion, but calling it a prejudice is diversionary.  Jesus Tap Dancing Christ, the Republican party fully embraced religion so their candidates should expect to have their religious beliefs examined, too.  They can’t have it both ways - making everyone believe in God but not allowing that choice to be questioned.

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Posted: 22 September 2012 09:21 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 73 ]  
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I’m just suggesting that relying on science and scientists to rescue us can be ts own form of illogical thought.
>>>  I agree.  Science can provide knowledge but what we do with it and how we use can have positive or negative results.  We can’t look to anyone person or group to ‘rescue us.’

Also, I think it’s wrong to keep talking about ‘prejudice’ toward Mormonism.  Speaking for myself, I can’t tolerate religion qua religion anymore.  Especially after 9/11 and after reading Sam’s first book.  That was a game changer for me.  It’s rational to reject a process of thought or actually lack of thought that leads so many to accept faith and supernatural claims.  In this respect, I have zero tolerance toward all religion.  Just like I have zero tolerance toward slavery.  I don’t usually say “I’m prejudiced toward slavery.”  I understand and accept that there is a right to practice religion as long as it doesn’t infringe on the rights of others to not practice.  Obviously, there is no such right to slavery since its very definition and practice requires a violation of someone’s rights.

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Posted: 22 September 2012 10:14 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 74 ]  
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mormovies - 22 September 2012 09:21 AM

I’m just suggesting that relying on science and scientists to rescue us can be ts own form of illogical thought.
>>>  I agree.  Science can provide knowledge but what we do with it and how we use can have positive or negative results.  We can’t look to anyone person or group to ‘rescue us.’

Also, I think it’s wrong to keep talking about ‘prejudice’ toward Mormonism.  Speaking for myself, I can’t tolerate religion qua religion anymore.  Especially after 9/11 and after reading Sam’s first book.  That was a game changer for me.  It’s rational to reject a process of thought or actually lack of thought that leads so many to accept faith and supernatural claims.  In this respect, I have zero tolerance toward all religion.  Just like I have zero tolerance toward slavery.  I don’t usually say “I’m prejudiced toward slavery.”  I understand and accept that there is a right to practice religion as long as it doesn’t infringe on the rights of others to not practice.  Obviously, there is no such right to slavery since its very definition and practice requires a violation of someone’s rights.


I don’t think that anyone has a right to pollute the consensus reality with the slothful drivel of religion.
What hope does humanity have when the majority of them believe in imaginary gods?

 

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Posted: 22 September 2012 11:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 75 ]  
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TheCoolinator - 07 September 2012 10:14 PM

Full disclosure: I am an atheist who was raised as a Mormon….

Men whose intellects I admire have been debasing themselves in their rush to join the chorus of anti-Mormon sentiment in our public discourse.

Maybe you should admire them a little less.

It’s easy to attack the nonsense of mainstream theism. Don’t get too impressed by the people who do it. They often have dogmas and faiths of their own of equal or greater gibberish.

As an atheist who has always been an atheist, Mormon doctrine seems much less twisted and demented than the main theistic alternatives. The same with Jehovah’s witnesses, for that matter. They’re “more crazy” only because they’re minority positions.

The current snickerfest over Mormonism is predominantly not by evangelicals, but by those who worship another god entirely - Society, Humanity, the State, etc. , and are looking to use religious bigotry to support their preferred candidate. Instead of race baiting, it’s religious baiting. I wonder if they would have been so hot to decry weirdo religions when Kennedy ran against Nixon to become the first Catholic president. Actually I don’t wonder, I know that agreeing with Kennedy’s politics, they would have denounced questions about Kennedy’s Catholicism as religious baiting.

Notice that we didn’t hear a peep from them about Obama’s racist church, with it’s “Marxism in Stained Glass” of Black Liberation Theology.

Why? Because they want Obama to win, and their collectivist assumptions are largely in line with the Black Liberation Theology besides.

Yes, the religious bigotry being stirred up against Mormons by some atheists is rather odious. But it’s really just your mistake to be surprised that your atheist heroes engage in it. Let this be a lesson - the enemy of your enemy is not necessarily your friend.

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