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Posted: 19 March 2005 12:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 46 ]  
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ptripp, hello, well I tell ya, it is hard to debate you guys. First of all, most of the post on this forum are exceeding bright, and this probably stems from years of schooling and investigation. Try trying to respond to some of the posts on this forum. You’ll be scratching your head the first five minutes trying to keep up.

Now I can always give you my own personal thoughts, but they are always going to go back to the bible, because that is where I feel the answers are. If that ruffles feathers, there is nothing I can do about that. I guess my own way of life differs greatly from the norm on this forum. Therefore I bring something different to the table. But, isn’t that a good thing? What happened to inclusion? Oh well, just another day in the intellectual jungle. Back to the March Madness….

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Posted: 19 March 2005 02:16 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 47 ]  
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I guess TChamp has a difficult time reasoning with his own brain - hence his frequent turn to the bible.  Notice that he added 31% to 79% to get 100 - he is a powerful mathematician! No wonder nothing we say seems to add up for him in the ‘this makes good sense’ column.
Bob

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Posted: 19 March 2005 02:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 48 ]  
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CalZen, at least I see you are reading, hee hee.

Yes, that is what I get for rushing.

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Posted: 19 March 2005 03:07 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 49 ]  
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Yeah,

  Champ keeps the pot boiling around here.

  But I guess that he is avoiding the post that was addressed to him and any other avid Christians in the Christianity section. I was looking forward to to his response. I am not surprised at this because I would guess that like many Bible quoters he doesn’t have any real experience with his God. He knows a lot about the words that have been written about god but that is it. When your head is filled with Biblical phrases there isn’t much room for anything else and why bother looking when you have all the answers?

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Posted: 19 March 2005 03:43 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 50 ]  
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hey Blue, what post you talking about?

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Posted: 20 March 2005 01:12 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 51 ]  
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Hey Champ

It seems you have plenty of time “to get around to” responding to other posts so when are you going to answer Tom’s 40 questions.

Please everyone lets see if we can get Champ to answer Tom’s true-false questions.  I think he does not want to do this because he will then be forced to actually defend a non-moving position.  Let’s get a solid base of his views to start from.  One that all his future (and past )responses can be evaluated against.


Ray

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Posted: 20 March 2005 01:52 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 52 ]  
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Check out…Response to Tom/Ray, Questions in the Key of Life

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Posted: 20 March 2005 01:53 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 53 ]  
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Good morning Champion. I see that some of the others have once again joined the fun.

I do have to give you credit for hanging in there with this group. Without sounding condescending, your last reply to me sounded like a very grounded person. It seemed as though you jumped off of your soap box and spoke from the heart. I would welcome anyone like that into any discourse that I am having.

I think that many of the other earlier replys to you were a challenge for you to speak from the heart instead of quoting from the book. You made it clear however, that your answers all come from the book and therein lies the difference between us. We don’t have a book to quote. It all comes from inside.

Most of us, I would guess, have had some kind of Judeo-Christian upbringing. Particularly if we were raised in North or South America or Europe. So at one time, many of us believed or at least went along with what we were taught in Church, Synagogue, Sunday school or in our homes.

At some point in our lives, we came to question the “Church’s” teachings. All the things that had been taught to us as “gospel” became a target for our logic and rational inquiry into the “truth”.

It is a journey, for me, that started at 12 when I read “The Age of Reason” by Thomas Paine. Until that time, I just figured that everything in the bible was factually based and I had no reason to doubt that the events were true. I was an atheist by age 16-18 and have been on that journey for almost four decades.

My point is, that you shouldn’t come in here trying to convert any of us. For most of us, with regards to organized religion, we have already been there and checked out. You are not telling us anything that we haven’t already seen or heard. And most assuredly in my case, you are not going to convert me.

Whether we are Agnostic, Atheist, Buddhist, Hindu et.,al, we have probably either been indoctrinated into the Judeo-Christian teachings or have explored them at one time.

So if some of us appear bright, as you called it, it is probably due to exactly what you said. We didn’t just arrive hear yesterday and most of us have probably explored many philosophies in the course of our lives.

I think that if you keep that in mind when you engage this group, you will be accepted more graciously.  Speak from the heart instead of just playing back all of your memory tapes from the bible. We have all dealt with people like you many, many times.

I respect you for your beliefs. You sound like one that is very comfortable with where you are in life. I often read about so much corruption and bad actions by supposedly religious people and I realize that there is a core of people that walk the walk and talk the talk and live their lives by biblical standards. I suspect that you are one of the good ones. Live long and prosper.  All the best. Phil in Murrieta

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Posted: 20 March 2005 02:47 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 54 ]  
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[quote author=“TheChampion”]ptripp, hello, well I tell ya, it is hard to debate you guys. First of all, most of the post on this forum are exceeding bright, and this probably stems from years of schooling and investigation. Try trying to respond to some of the posts on this forum. You’ll be scratching your head the first five minutes trying to keep up.

Now I can always give you my own personal thoughts, but they are always going to go back to the bible, because that is where I feel the answers are. If that ruffles feathers, there is nothing I can do about that.—-

Why does this remind me of things I heard during the last election campaign? Oh yeah, now I remember.  This is the kind of rhetoric the GWB used.

Wow, could this Champ guy really be GWB in disguise?

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Posted: 21 March 2005 03:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 55 ]  
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[quote author=“recent poll by Time Magazine showed that 79% of the country believed in the Judeo-Christian God. That means that 31% of you in this country are irrational, according to the 79%. Just a thought.

 

Well, I have enjoyed reading these posts so much that I’m going to have to add my .02 even though this horse may be dead.

I just joined this forum today and I haven’t read Sam’s book yet but will be buying it after seeing the discussion with him on Book TV last night.  For many years I have felt I was alone in my unconventional thinking/ranting but there is clearly a rising tide…

One of Sam’s comments in the book discussion last night was about the “ecosystem of ignorance”. The phrase brought a few chuckles. As much as I am a “believer” in reason it seems to me that it’s going to take more than reason and conversation to stop this faith-culture runaway train. After all, other than Champ, we’re all preaching to the choir here.

Since I haven’t read the book yet, I may be speaking to topics already discussed in the book - To me, it seems we are asking for logic and reason from an ever-growing group of people who don’t want to hear logic because logic and reason force people to see reality, which today is quite terrifying. For these people it is preferable and easier to stay in denial.  How do you coax, demand, or beg people to be reasonable if doing so takes away their only defense against fear?

Which brings me to Champ.

It seems Champ did finally answer the 40 questions in the Key of Life forum,  but I would like to ask him 1 more question. This is about satan.

Evidently 65% of Americans believe in Satan.  According to scripture he is;  “the great deceiver” (Revelation 12:9), the “god of this world” (2 Cor 4:4) and the “angel of light”  (2 Corinthians 11:14).  Other accounts in the Bible show him not only as a great deceiver but a spin doctor too – a cleaver manipulator of words and truth (come to think of it, much like GWB and Co.).

The question for Champ is: In view of satan’s ultimate deceiver status, how do you know you are following god and not satan?

One more comment Champ. You mention that 79% of Americans believe in god.  Of course they do because god blesses America, right? (or maybe it’s satan blessing America, but I digress). The scripture Matthew 7:13 will remind you that:  “… wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.” 

This brings to mind one of my favorite quotes by Oscar Wilde, “If too many people agree with me I fear I must be wrong.”  As we all well know, Champ, mass-belief does not make you right or your reality, true.

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Posted: 21 March 2005 04:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 56 ]  
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[quote Champ]  ... Time Magazine showed that 79% of the country believed in the Judeo-Christian God. That means that 31% of you in this country are irrational, according to the 79%. Just a thought.

Well, I have enjoyed reading these posts so much that I’m going to have to add my .02 even though this horse may be dead.

I just joined this forum today and I haven’t read Sam’s book yet but will be buying it after seeing the discussion with him on Book TV last night.  For many years I have felt I was alone in my unconventional thinking/ranting but there is clearly a rising tide…

One of Sam’s comments in the book discussion last night was about the “ecosystem of ignorance”. The phrase brought a few chuckles. As much as I am a “believer” in reason it seems to me that it’s going to take more than reason and conversation to stop this faith-culture runaway train. After all, other than Champ, we’re all preaching to the choir here.

Since I haven’t read the book yet, I may be speaking to topics already discussed in the book - To me, it seems we are asking for logic and reason from an ever-growing group of people who don’t want to hear logic because logic and reason force people to see reality, which today is quite terrifying. For these people it is preferable and easier to stay in denial.  How do you coax, demand, or beg people to be reasonable if doing so takes away their only defense against fear?

Which brings me to Champ.

It seems Champ did finally answer the 40 questions in the Key of Life forum,  but I would like to ask him 1 more question. This is about satan.

Evidently 65% of Americans believe in Satan.  According to scripture he is;  “the great deceiver” (Revelation 12:9), the “god of this world” (2 Cor 4:4) and the “angel of light”  (2 Corinthians 11:14).  Other accounts in the Bible show him not only as a great deceiver but a spin doctor too – a cleaver manipulator of words and truth (come to think of it, much like GWB and Co.).

The question for Champ is: In view of satan’s ultimate deceiver status, how do you know you are following god and not satan?

One more comment Champ. You mention that 79% of Americans believe in god.  Of course they do because god blesses America, right? (or maybe it’s satan blessing America, but I digress). The scripture Matthew 7:13 will remind you that:  “… wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.” 

This brings to mind one of my favorite quotes by Oscar Wilde, “If too many people agree with me I fear I must be wrong.”  As we all well know, Champ, mass-belief does not make you right or your reality, true.

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Posted: 21 March 2005 04:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 57 ]  
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Posted: 21 March 2005 04:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 58 ]  
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[quote author=“guest”]One more comment Champ. You mention that 79% of Americans believe in god. Of course they do because god blesses America, right? (or maybe it’s satan blessing America, but I digress).

And judging by the direction of pop (read angry) culture, the widening gap between rich and poor, the growing iliteracy rates, the increasing work hours, the falling apart of infrastructure (and no one wants to pay taxes to build it back up), much of the world not liking us,... I could go on, but the list of blessings just gets too long to enumerate.  god must sure love us a lot.

g

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Posted: 21 March 2005 10:42 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 59 ]  
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Perhaps “champion” your remarks regarding intellectuals have their origins in envy.I say this because aside from your astounding ignorance,your spelling proves that you are anything but an intellectual. Is this a case of “if you can’t beat them,insult them”? I think I can both beat you and insult you since for the sake of the survival of mankind and the planet you and all those like you must be and frankly, “champion” are being beaten even though it seems that religious fanaticism is on the rise. As far as insulting you,I think Mr. Harris has clearly pointed out that you and people like you are as deserving of insults mabye even more so, as the average nazi pig.I hold no brief whatsoever for satanism with it’s social darwinist,neo-fascist worldview and it’s elevation of the predatory sociopath as the “elite” of mankind. The thing about satanism though is that it’s bark is far louder than it’s bite. It is a marginalized belief held by a small minority on the fringes who hold little power,a far cry from that held by christians,muslims, and capitalists. The capitalists hold the irrational belief that globalization,unrestrained corporate power etc…are the answers to all the world’s ills. All you have do is look at the conditions of the third world in this 21st century(and many poor and marginalized westerners who obviously are never counted) and you can see the rationality of these ideas. If you think the species of capitalism practiced in the modern world has nothing to do with this,perhaps you should put down your Noam Chomsky(who whatever his faults,has always been coherant enough for me) since Chomsky-bashing seems so in vogue these days and read John Perkins’ book “confessions of an economic hitman”. This cheery little volume provides a crystal clear account of the astonishing injustices our wonderful globalised free market balderdash is responsible for. The thing that makes it unique is that it is written by an insider who was part of this injustice until his “road to damascus” moment. You may be wondering what my point is here,it would be more accurate to consider what my points(plural)are for they are “legion”. I am surely not naive enough to think that I will change your mind or that of any other “true believer”. For now yes I am satisfied with mere insults, anything I can do to make the lives of christers,muslims and all those whose irrational,self-serving beliefs have made life a hell on earth for thousands of years more miserable, is o.k. by me. Your illusory cosmic tyrant of a god is dying but simply does’nt know when to fall down!!! I have an idea as to why religious fanatics like yourself seem to be on the increase. It is precisely BECAUSE your beliefs have become untenable and deep down inside,  I think only the most idiotic/unstable among you do not realize it. The basic problem is you are too weak too “handle the truth”,you are just a terrified little child deep down inside,is that not so “champion”? A world without your precious christ is just terrifying and inane to you isn’t it? Boy I can’t wait to see all the “love your enemy” BS you unload on me after this!!! Yes,champion your god is dead and it is rather comical to watch all you christers fight like a cornered rabbit who knows it’s end is nigh. That’s what’s happening here is it not? Did’nt the germans and Japanese rally together and fight harder when they knew they were doomed? Christianity is already all but dead in Europe and it’s demise in the USA will only be a matter of time. When all the old farts and baby boomer believers finally do the planet a favor and drop dead,then the youth of today will disgard the vomitoriums you call “houses of worship” once and for all. Please don’t tell me about some paltry “youth revival because 99% of the people I know under 35(since I am one and I personally know hundreds and come in contact with thousands) are having none of your nonsense!!! The ones that are religious will quite often abandon their faith later on (akin to the hippies of the “love generation”) as simply their own form of youthful idealism. Where does that leave you and your kind champion?? Oh I forgot, jesus who is returning anyday now will take care of you and punish the heathens. That way you and your ilk can secretly revel and get your boundless egos stroked,(since you were right all along and all those “godless intellectuals” who looked down on you were wrong) while watching all the non-believers roast in hell!!! Go ahead and tell me how ignorant I am about your beliefs and all that other tiresome spew. I have studied your religion and all others far too long to be ignorant of any aspects of them. That is exactly the kind of thing your dogmatic doggerel espouses and if you don’t believe it, then even jerry fartwell and the pope will tell you your not a real christian.Yes,this is your"religion of love” in action. Then you will cynically announce how horrified you are about the “lost souls” who rejected your scarecrow nazerene !!! In other words; “yes martha isn’t it ashame about our gay nephew,but oh well we get to whoop it up for eternity with JC so hey atleast were safe”!!! (“you have truimphed oh pale galilean and the world has grown grey from thy breathe”;Algernon Swinburne). What kind of a sick,megalomanical,egoistic,sadistic,infinitely sociopathic god would damn his creations(or even permit them to go)to a place of infinite and eternal suffering merely for not believing in him? (or for ANY REASON I don’t even think Hitler deserves ETERNAL torment). The kind of god you claim to love and worship champion, the god of fear,the “testy senior jehovah conceived by your petty malice”. I am aware that you christians and especially conservative catholics attempt to moderate the fire and brimstone crap with these powerful theological insights like;“it’s the person who chooses hell,god does’nt put them there” or;all hell is eternal seperation from god"how positively comforting this is!!! If you can’t understand why it’s not comforting or “moderate” too bad, I refuse to spell it out for you. It is difficult to know whether to laugh at people like you,pity you,revile you or what. I find myself doing all these and more but mostly,I truly can’t believe unspeakably irrational entities such as yourself even exist at all in this day and age. Your whole illucid myth is instilled by fear and you refuse to see it. All you do is desperately grasp at ANY promise that fits your pathetic needs.I can give christianity (and islam, to an extent) a certain amount of credit in that they are perfectly designed to permit no “escape hatch”. A christian may find his beliefs wholly ridiculous and actually hate and resent the god he claims to love. HE/She may realize that it is impossible to hide these feelings from god so the obvious solution;pray for the grace you need in order to love him.After all, you know where you headed if “divine intervention” doesn’t save you from your own anger and hate towards the cosmic tyrant. Like the people of Iraq and soviet russia you all profess your love for the “dear leader” to friends,family,neighbors and cameras. The way you feel deep down could be whole other matter could’nt it Champion? Since most christians do have the capacity for rational thought it is very likely difficult, if not impossible for many of them to take their fairy tales seriously. BUT always lurking in the background, is that ole’ “just in case there really is a hell I better believe” mentality. So the whole house of straw is built on
the most craven,selfish,deceitful pottage of a foundation that has ever been!!! It is also easy to understand why christers like you will always hold on to your faith instead of adopting any alternative. Hard-core atheistic materialism?,no good at all and I certainly concur with you there. I find that worldview not only as grim and horrifying as your own, but equally as stupid. How in the hell mortal human can completely dismiss the idea of any existence outside the physical is beyond me. This is why like your friend, Charles Darwin I"must be content to remain an agnostic”. I THINK(based solely on overwhelming circumstantial evidence) that there ARE “dimensions of consciousness” a spiritual realm,if you will. I can’t prove it with any degree of certitude and I am not presumptous enough to claim that I have the slightest clue as to “it’s” nature quite unlike folks like yourself who struggle to balance your checkbook, but claim to have a relatively good idea about the nature of god,etc… Yes,Yes I know people like me think it’s all about the intellect and god is something you can only know through intuition or what you please!!! Did you ever wonder,if you have the “grace” to “see things through the eyes of the soul and not the mind” from whence these “revelations” may come? Are you ignorant enough to think the human brain cannot deceive itself and mabye,just mabye these things are just the brain giving it’s user what it so desperately wants? What about the “miracles” at fatima and all that you say? where thousands of people witnessed the sun hurdling towards the earth and other seemingly supernatural goings-on. Well, first of all I was not there,but I do not at all doubt that something happened. Is it wise to knee-jerk around and ascribe the whole occurance to the “holy virgin”? Could it not POSSIBLY have a countless number of more"rational explanations”? I will be the first one to admit mabye it was jesus christ and mabye just mabye he is the son of god!!! But if he and his father are ANYTHING close to what people like you and your “holy books” say they are, I would’nt think twice about “joining the other side”. Atleast satan does’nt offer any pretense about being a “god of love” and is pretty damn candid about his “evil”. I probably would be a frightened little twit like yourself if I really did even remotely buy any of this but fortunetly, I don’t. But I have digressed big time we have already discovered why “materialistic atheistic absolutism’” is something that you can’t believe in (and as stated, even though it MAY be the “ultimate reality” I personally think it’s totally irrational to believe in this with certainty,it is also something I don’t WANT to believe because it is as ugly,mabye more so in SOME respects as your own hellfire christianity). Well what about “alternative beliefs” like the ones that encapsulate the “new age” ? The god of the old/new testament and the koran is certainly not kind to pagans,witches and occultists of any stripe. So a person like you,atleast in theory COULD sit down and study things like kabbalah,western esotercism,hermeticism,magick,etc… and come to the conculsion that as irrational as much of this is,atleast it potrays a “kinder-gentler” spirituality (much of it anyway) devoid of hellfire and deity “brownnosing” and all the other wonderful things that make christianty and it’s “fellow traveller” faiths so hateful. Not only that but ATLEAST (the hypothetical christian may say) it’s LESS IRRATIONAL than my own faith that would have me believe a guy lived inside a fish for three days and another one made countless billions of gallons of water obey his will and all the endless other fairy tales. Well,what does our inquistive,theoretical christian do with all of this? The answer would be obvious to the most meager theological tyro,he soundly rejects it!!!! It’s that darn old “just in case” again the permits NO escape hatch from the self-imposed slavery of christianity. Although it must be evident to you that I detest all beliefs that are based on insufficent evidence (I imagine you may make that feeble attempt that “bible scholars” so often do to try to prove that christianity has loads of “scientific evidence” to support it). I would love to see exactly what you considered so overpowering to the evolutionist’s argument on the Michael Medved show. That tittering,epicene,right-wing, windbag could’nt sell me a candy bar and the fact that you take him seriously shows your stupidity perhaps better than anything else could. I would not doubt that it was some fake (or even real with a right-wing agenda) evolutionist who was paid to make his argument sound as implausible as possible without raising eyebrows among the doltified disciples of that imbecile’s talk show.Neither “repugnicans or “demorats” are above these sort of dirty tricks. Ah but I ‘ve gone off on a tangent again,oh well so much contempt, so little time. As I said,it must be abundantly clear how much I loathe all irrational beliefs(not at all because they are irrational,but because of the untold misery they are directly/indirectly responsible far too much of the time , as Mr. Harris so astutely argues). You may have noticed that I hold christianity in particularly low regard and I will not try to deny it. I have a multitude of reasons for this and if you at all care, I am willing to answer them if asked. Islam comes in at a real close second and in certain ways may even be the blue ribbon pig of the centuries,but only in certain categories. Well, I will leave you with a warning and when you and all the rest of the believers are done laughing, you might want to let your notorious capacity for fear guide you rationally this time. All those who allow their irrational beliefs to oppress and harm others are nothing more than miserable bullies. Since you don’t believe in evolution it is hardly worth explaining the more abtruse aspects to you,so i’ll put it in strictly laymen’s terms(still to no avail no doubt). Civilization did not evolve by allowing bullies a free reign indefinetly. Bullies have(although it undoubtly takes time) historically not fared well,think of the French revolution,the nazis,the shah of Iran,sadaam Hussein and even victims of school shootings. While a few of these events (like a columbine massacre) could probably not be justified it is hard to believe people would be driven to commit desperate acts such as these without the prerequisite bullying. I have noticed a growing worldwide hostility towards many irrational beliefs especially but not at all limited to, christianity and islam. This hostility has grown for islam after the atrocities of Sept 11 and for christianty (towards american christians,in particular) over the past four shameful years of dubya and even more after the embarassing recent re-election of that glad-handing phony. Many People in this nation and globally are becoming tired of being mocked and bullied by christers , muslims and other dogmatic clowns in such an unworthy way. I know there has been a rash of church burnings and violence against christians and muslims all over europe and even in the USA. While I do not condone this at all, ask yourself this question. If you entered a black neighborhood and started yelling a bunch of racial epithets,do you think you would garner much sympathy from the public if you were beaten to death by a crowd of black men? With that said christians,muslims and others have done far more then shout insults over the centuries and you continue to do so.It should not surprise you at all when churches/mosques burn,preachers and muslim clerics are killed and similiar violent acts are directed towards the “faithful”. These acts may currently be commited primarily by anti-social teenage “satanists” driven to violence by drugs and “black metal” music or racist working-class white youth in europe/america who blame muslims for stealing all the jobs and other individuals/groups on the fringes of society. I can assure you if you think violent ideations towards you are just emanating from the “lunatic fringe” you better think again. You will probably adopt the typical macho-mindset(like most love your enemy/turn the other cheek christians) and say “if that’s the case bring it on”!!! Well if you want a war, you may happen to be getting one before jesus decides to show up and protect you. All of this could be avoided so tragically easy if you people would just simply believe in whatever myth you want and STOP SHOVING YOUR BELIEFS DOWN THE THROATS OF OTHERS WHETHER IN THE POLITICAL ARENA OR ELSEWHERE. But this you obviously are not going to do,so strap in your jayzeus belt it’s gonna be a bumpy century!!! But whenever I hear one of you whining about any injustices that you have suffered ,you will get no sympathy from me. Oh well, just like hundreds of thousands of people in 19th century america who believed with certainty what Miller told them about christ’s return on a certain day in that century, you’ve all got the second coming to look forward to and then you’ll be saved from the angry sodomites who would hang you from the “gibbet for the sport of your own crows”. Well in miller time, christians were the overwhelming majority in the western world so it was no problem when JC sold out that time around. I don’t think you’ll get off so easily this time around.

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Posted: 22 March 2005 01:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 60 ]  
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Btw,champ if you do respond with any jesus loves you anyway rubbish,remember who I am. DO NOT mistake me for some sunny, 60’s- hippie- turned- reaganomics- 80’s- yuppie-who-sold-my-“soul”-and-ass-namby-pamby- baby- boomer-who- still-clings-to-some- of-my-old-ideals-so -I -don’t-have-to-realize-what-a-phony-jerk-off-I-truly-am while-getting- rich-serving-the-corporate- fascists- all- week-aiding- their- nefarious-agenda-pompous-balsalmic-dreams-hillary-lovin-chelsea-morning-pbs-supporting-liberal.Around here, these farts still blowin’ in the wind firmly secure their “good-guy badges” to their lapels and trot off to the kabbalah center to hob-nob with madonna the “old battleaxe” ciccone and paris “the defacto hooker” hilton on Saturday evenings!!! This type is all to common in my area and we begin to see Hegel’s dialectical method in action in my town considering the relative paucity of christer swine of your ilk here.I must say I truly don’t know which is worse. Well, atleast in the case of florida,there is always the hope that the volcano in the Canary Islands may collapse and generate a mega-tsunami(I wonder how paris would screw and shop her way out of that tight spot?). Just kidding everyone but not really, hmmm… tsunami will take care of floridian libayuppie pukes, what to do about those pesky fundies in the heartland? I know!!! since they have such contempt for science anyway then mabye all the scientists should leave the country and the next severe flu strain will pretty much take care of the fundies. In any case,“chimp” If it’s not bloody blue blatant by now,I am your avowed enemy and offer zero apologies. The sort of fluffy tolerance and candy-ass “dialogue” you have probably grown far too comfortable with from the aforementioned types, you will NEVER get from me. It is exactly the tolerance and patience of many mawkish liberals that has permitted “faith bullies” like yourself to aquire such power in the world. I said it in the last post and i’ll say it again if you fartwells and followers of the drolling fossil in rome etc…continue your abusive god-mongering you will reap the whirlwind,that is something I do have strong faith in!!! I know it’s your duty as a servant of the lord to convert everyone. It might be wise to ask the good lord if you can give up on the infidels already cause they ain’t budgin’. If you think a wholesale revolt against your intrusive style of religion is impossible,consider history and how the excesses of the catholic church were dealt with by the reformation,unfortunetly the ole hegelian dialectic came to pass in that case too. Considering that, it could be likely that something equally as obnoxious as Xtianity could arise after it’s final death throes(it certainly did with communism). I do not believe in the inevitability of hegel’s thesis-antithesis-synthesis, however and at this juncture, in the most perilous time in history, when man is willingly fostering wholesale socio- economic injustice and all-out ecocide for the almighty free-market and “progress” what in the sam hill do we have to lose in this Orwellian nightmare “civilization” but the shackles of a twisted fairy tale that has enslaved us for 2000 years. Ding -dong your god is dead loser,I mean champion.  :evil:

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