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The Cult of Evolutionists
Posted: 11 April 2005 12:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]  
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Critics of religion are at least responsible enough to carefully study the subject of their criticism. If you want to criticize evolution, you should at least have the intellectual honesty to study it yourself. It is apparent from the numerous statements made by the critics of evolution that they have not taken any time to do just that. In fact, it sounds like they prefer to just take the word of some politician or television preacher.

- Bulldog

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You are not entitled to your own opinion. You are only entitled to your own informed opinion.—H. Ellison quoting G. Flaubert

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Posted: 11 April 2005 06:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]  
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William, you were perfectly correct in assuming that TChamps eyes “glazed over”  (like cherries boiling in a sugary syrup) when he read the part about 5 million years.  He is incapable of understanding such a conceptual fact in abstraction. But his next question was even dopier after you clearly stated that we did not evolve from monkeys and apes yet he asks the question again, “well did we or didn’t we?”

Maybe that fact can be somewhat clarified for him(??)  Humans, apes and monkeys all evolved from other, earlier primates, in other words all three of these arthropoidal branches of primates evolved from (now extinct) varieties of primate species (lemur-type creatures).  Maybe that is too technical?  Lets focus on an obvious physical trait that separates the apes (including us) from the monkeys.  The apes are quite similar physically to the monkeys except that they lack a tail.  Apes are the chimpanzees, bonobos, orangutans and gorillas. The common ancestor, from which the apes branched away from the monkeys, obviously did not have tails.  This quirk of nature forced them to change their lifestyle to some degree (more ground dwelling and more capable of bipedal (two legged) locomotion, to name a couple).  Anyway, whatever tailless ancestor of these apes first exhibited the ground-dwelling and bipedal habits - that ancestor no longer exists and many other offspring lines from that ancestor have also died out over time.  But monkeys did not die out when the apes appeared, in fact they continued to evolve along with the apes as all creatures continue to evolve to this day (including human beings).  Now obviously we, like our ape brothers & sisters, are also tailless primates, and in the same way that the ape line of evolution is now left with only four distinct species (mentioned above) - we, homo sapien sapiens, are the only remaining species of our evolutionary line of descent from the other apes with whom we share a common ancestor millions of years in the past.

So, in conclusion, we did not evolve from present day apes or from present day monkeys, but we share a common ancestor with those primates.  Our common ancestor with the apes is a more recent branching off than it is with our monkey ancestors in which the branching off is even farther in the past -  is that any clearer?

This is a general sketch, you can find the finer details in any biology book or on any reputable site on the internet - go TChamp and expand your horizon of knowledge.

Bob

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It’s definitely a moon! . . . and now it’s become a sunflower!

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Posted: 11 April 2005 08:43 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]  
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I am totally aghast at the arguement we couldn’t have evolved from apes and monkeys cause we still have apes and monkeys.

If you look at the animals HUMANS have bred you can clearly see the operation of genetic selection manipulated by humans, why is it so hard to understand that mere survival could have done the same kind of “selection”?


we still have Koi, and we have boggle eyed goldfish with three tail fins.

we still have Mastiffs, and we have Pit Bulls

We still have poodles, and we have toy poodles.

what is so hard about this concept that what humans can do nature could do?

say no to inbreeding !! = )

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Posted: 12 April 2005 02:02 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]  
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Thank you, CanZen for clarifying my hasty post.  I was trying not to give him too much information, but he ran anyway.  I have learned my lesson, and after engaging him in two threads will ignore him from now on.

Iisbliss, the argument about still having apes and monkeys is a staple of the creationists, and is one they use with great effectiveness in winning popular debates with evolutionists.  Look at CanZen’s recapitulation of my post.  That much detail is necessary to refute their ape argument, and unfortunatly, it is too much information for 90% of the general population to get their heads around.

Therefore, creationists win most, if not all, popular debates.  It is a sad commentary on the educational system in this country, but it is true.

William

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Posted: 12 April 2005 02:31 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]  
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[quote author=“William”]Thank you, CanZen for clarifying my hasty post.  I was trying not to give him too much information, but he ran anyway.  I have learned my lesson, and after engaging him in two threads will ignore him from now on.
William

How do creationists explain the different races of the world? Are we all not individual branches of the common ancestor(s) that didn’t die off…yet?
just curious

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Posted: 12 April 2005 02:55 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]  
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Since the story of Noah and his sons was used to justify slavery, and since Native Americans were at one time judged to be animals since they werent mentioned in the bible, giving Christians the right to kill them, and enslave them, I would guess that creationists prolly think that only White Anglo Saxon Protestants are the children of God, and all other races evolved from apes.

of course, I am cynical and jaded, and keep an eye on these nutcases too, and every time I hear the word “Christian” I suspect a racist.  Ha, try growing up in the south to taint your perspective.

http://www.wckkkk.com/who.html

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Posted: 12 April 2005 03:13 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]  
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http://www.wckkkk.com/who.html

whew! I’m white, and I agree, nutbars indeed. The only reason why they consider themselves superior is because they are not from a developing or third world country. The world would be a different place if it was “the blacks” for instance, that were able to capture and makes slaves out of the whites. There would likely be a major developed city in every corner of Africa. Unfortunately, I also think there would be black versions of the KKK dedicated to suppress the whites. This “kill or be killed” attitude is easily adopted by the intellectually lazy, and therefore ignorant among us. And, the notion that whites are innately more intelligent than blacks is horseshit. I digress

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Posted: 12 April 2005 06:24 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]  
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Your getting on my nerves…..

(sorry, lack of sleep last night led me into a grumpy mood… :-( )

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Posted: 12 April 2005 06:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]  
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How do creationists explain the different races of the world

Good question, they don’t, any more than they explain how the flightless Kiwi excaped the predator “kinds” getting off the ark, and walked all the way to where it ended up.

If you ask the question, all you will get is “God works in mysterious ways, his wonders to perform,” or some such rot.

William

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Posted: 12 April 2005 06:45 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]  
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[quote author=“TheChampion”]Your getting on my nerves…..

(sorry, lack of sleep last night led me into a grumpy mood… :-( )

Me? Pourquoi? Regardless, I forgive you Champ.

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Posted: 12 April 2005 07:15 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]  
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No problem. grin

We all have our bad days. This is one of mine….

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Posted: 12 April 2005 10:17 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]  
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[quote author=“fencesitter”]
How do creationists explain the different races of the world? Are we all not individual branches of the common ancestor(s) that didn’t die off…yet?
just curious

As I recall from my Sunday school days, Christians explain the different races very simply.  They use the story of the tower of Babel, where mankind was trying to build a tower to heaven so they could be with god.  An angry god not only destroyed the tower, but divided groups of people into different races with different languages so they would never again be able to communicate with one another.  He even expelled them to different parts of the earth.  Thus, they would be unable to ever again commit such an autrocity as to work together to build a tall building into the sky. 

Ironically, this same omnipotent god somehow underestimated mankind’s ability to learn each other’s language.  Seems we build pretty tall buildings these days, too.  Still haven’t reached heaven yet, though.  Go figure!

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Posted: 12 April 2005 10:46 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]  
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However, allow me to expound upon your discourse. The Holy Spirit was not present in men’s souls at the time of the tower of Babel, as it is now. An interesting, if not humungous in magnitude, difference.

So you started off on the right foot, but you got sidetracked by your anti-God bias. Don’t worry though, God still loves you. Because while we were yet sinners, he sent his only begotten son to die for our sin. Now salvation is a gift for you, my friend. It is not something you can earn, it is a gift freely. And if the son sets you free, you are free indeed (tall buildings notwithstanding). grin

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Posted: 12 April 2005 10:55 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]  
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[quote author=“TheChampion”] The Holy Spirit was not present in men’s souls at the time of the tower of Babel, as it is now. An interesting, if not humungous in magnitude, difference.

Explain, please.  I have no reference to whatever you are trying to say.

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Posted: 12 April 2005 11:28 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]  
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Did your schooling include a study of Christianity in a usually called The Great Religions of The World, or were you stunted in your growth by omitting the spriritual part?

Just checking so I have a “point of reference” on which to direct you.

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