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Panpsychism
Posted: 15 February 2008 02:16 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 61 ]  
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Hey Andy,

Just popped over from the Washington Post to see how you were doing. It seems that Panpsychism is just as tough of a sell here, even with a more upscale crowd…. 

Well anyway, thank god for quantum mechanics, otherwise we’d be stuck talking about reality, boring! smile

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Posted: 15 February 2008 03:26 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 62 ]  
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GAD - 15 February 2008 07:16 PM

Well anyway, thank god for quantum mechanics, otherwise we’d be stuck talking about reality, boring! smile

Yeah, why talk about plain, boring old reality when we can use a theory that we can barely grasp, let alone understand, to validate all sorts of ridiculous nonsense?

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Posted: 15 February 2008 04:42 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 63 ]  
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Reality sucks! “Life’s a bitch then you die”, just can’t compete with ridiculous nonsense. It would seem to me that the common goal of both Religion and Philosophy is the plausible deniability of death, in which case substituting ridiculous nonsense for reality is perfectly plausible….....

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Posted: 15 February 2008 09:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 64 ]  
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GAD - 15 February 2008 09:42 PM

Reality sucks! “Life’s a bitch then you die”, just can’t compete with ridiculous nonsense. It would seem to me that the common goal of both Religion and Philosophy is the plausible deniability of death, in which case substituting ridiculous nonsense for reality is perfectly plausible….....

First off, you don’t mean “perfectly plausible,” you mean “perfectly reasonable.” Ridiculous nonsense never becomes “plausible” just because you can’t handle reality. Believing a lie may be seen as a “reasonable“ thing to do if it helps one who is disturbed to function somewhat normally in society. However, that doesn’t make that lie more “plausible,” no matter how attractive the lie is.

You know, GAD, not to be too dramatic, but you are the type of person who makes me worry about the future of Western Civilization. There are real and pressing issues that need to be addressed. Issues which we, as an informed citizenry should take pains to understand. But it seems that many people want to waste their time debating paranormal phenomena, the highs and lows of celebrity lives, agonize over the minutia of sporting events, and have long drawn out discussions about just how realistic a “superhero” movie should be. And, sadly, those are the topics favored by adults.

Now I enjoy fantasy as much as the next person. I have always enjoyed genre fiction, be it in books, movies or comics, as long as I can remember. But I have always enjoyed it as a spice, never as the main course. A little fantasy here and there is fun (no one wants to spend all their time think about complex and serious issues), but too much of it can be detrimental to your thinking. When even the simplest of occurrences take on mystical significance, then fantasies become a symptom of diseased thinking.

The other sad thing is that by concentrating on bizarre and fanciful notions, you are missing out on the true wonders of the world. Now, I love science fiction. I enjoy stories of aliens and relish curling up with eerie tales of Lovecraftian horror. However, all these made up stories pale in sheer alien weirdness compared to the simple cuttlefish. There are wonders, both great and small all around us. To only live within the blinders proved by fantasy and mystical thinking is to miss these. And I truly feel sorry for those who have lost the ability to be charmed by reality.

Besides, if reality is really so bad, so unbearable, then why don’t you just smoke crack? You’ll be happily avoiding reality, and we won’t have to listen to your silly pontifications about the preferment of the ridiculous.

[ Edited: 15 February 2008 09:45 PM by Celsus]
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Posted: 16 February 2008 12:01 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 65 ]  
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Speaking of smoking crack, Celsus, step away from the pipe! I don’t know WTF your on about! My point was that those who can’t deal with the reality that the entirety of the universe isn’t all about us, that we live we die and what we do in between is all we leave behind are the ones inventing the ridiculous nonsense in an attempt to plausibly deny it (and quantum mechanics was a god send in that respect). How you could of taken what I said any other way I can only attribute to your apparently over sized ego getting in the way. I fear for the future of Western Civilization when it’s self appointed protectors shoot first and ask questions later. You must be a George Bush supporter.  Are we bonding yet?

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Posted: 16 February 2008 01:21 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 66 ]  
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GAD - 15 February 2008 07:16 PM

Hey Andy,

Just popped over from the Washington Post to see how you were doing. It seems that Panpsychism is just as tough of a sell here, even with a more upscale crowd…. 

Well anyway, thank god for quantum mechanics, otherwise we’d be stuck talking about reality, boring! smile

Hi Gad. Don’t knock quantum mechanics until you’ve seen how it can reconstruct time, classical reality, the growth of knowledge, and the emergence of the psyche besides. Oh, and spin off nuclear physics, electronics, photonics, stellar nucleosynthesis, and the big bang besides. And not a god in sight, unless you count Planck, Einstein, Heisenberg, Schrödinger, Dirac, Born, Feynman and the rest of the pantheon.

As for panpsychism, just see What the Bleep?! and have all your worst fears confirmed. Verily I say unto you, we have a religion in the making.

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Posted: 16 February 2008 09:11 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 67 ]  
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Hey Andy. I’m not knocking quantum mechanics, just stating that is has been just as big a boon to Religion and Philosophy as it has to science. Even the Fundie nut jobs are trying to use quantum mechanics to justify god these days.

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Posted: 17 February 2008 10:00 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 68 ]  
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GAD - 16 February 2008 02:11 PM

Even the Fundie nut jobs are trying to use quantum mechanics to justify god these days.

grin
Just happen to be reading a nice book by Rebecca Goldstein on Kurt Gödel. Now he was a nut job if ever there was one. But brilliant logician—many years ago I wrote a thesis on his theorems, and I’m still seeing new aspects of what he accomplished.

Grade A for Gödel!

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Posted: 17 February 2008 10:32 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 69 ]  
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All I understand about Gödel is that he proved that we can’t prove anything, hey wait a minute. smile While that may be true (or not) I don’t see any practical use for it.

Do know anything about this? This is a new “science” book that claims to have found all the answers, even why there something instead of nothing.

http://www.nullphysics.com/

They are asking $60 a pop for all the answers to the universe, and here I am giving them away for free!

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Posted: 17 February 2008 10:55 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 70 ]  
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GAD - 17 February 2008 03:32 PM

and here I am giving them away for free!

Restricted, of course, to the financial sense. After all, time is money. Oh, boy! Oboes and obloquy! GAD zooks!

[ Edited: 17 February 2008 11:00 AM by Traces Elk]
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Posted: 17 February 2008 11:11 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 71 ]  
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Oboes and obloquy? GAD zooks? (think of a German saying an English word that begins with “s” and ends with “ucks”)

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Posted: 17 February 2008 12:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 72 ]  
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GAD - 17 February 2008 03:32 PM

This is a new “science” book that claims to have found all the answers, even why there something instead of nothing.

http://www.nullphysics.com/

Just spent a few minutes reading what was on offer on “null physics” and came away feeling sceptical. Some very suspicious fiddling with a few standard basics generates statements so unorthodox that they don’t make sense without going deeper. Certainly there’s no evidence in the teasers to suggest he’s solved anything substantial, just found some odd new formulations. We can all wrap up what we know into a “definitive” package that answers all our own questions—indeed you do it yourself to your own evident satisfaction—but the acid test is getting a few pros to agree. I say T. Witt’s chances are slim.

Reminds me of my own attempts to make hay with panpsychism. Probably a no-no, sad to say.

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Posted: 17 February 2008 12:48 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 73 ]  
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My default view is that if anyone really knew these answers then everyone would and you wouldn’t have to buy them off the internet for $60…... My skeptical guess would be that the only thing he has solved is how to put money in his pocket.


“Reminds me of my own attempts to make hay with panpsychism. Probably a no-no, sad to say.”

Maybe you could sell it as a SciFi novel for $60 a pop? smile

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Posted: 18 February 2008 01:16 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 74 ]  
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AtheEisegete - 11 February 2008 04:34 PM
SumonaB - 11 February 2008 04:31 AM

I dub thee hypocrite!

Well, there’s a come-on if ever I heard one! Sumona ... sounds female: how about checking out my metaphysical endowment and seeing how hypocritical a glossolaliac can be?

Sorry, this is most unseemly even for a hypocrite. All comments about pudenda are of course to be taken with a sack or two of salt. I wish to return to the metaphysical themes that Sam in all his naive wisdom has brought into the public spotlight.

Sigmund Freud, in my opinion rightly, opined that civilization was built upon sexual repression. For this reason, I find it sinister that a British government organ today (approximately) pronounced that we should all have sex every day to reduce our chances of heart disease and cancer. Is this good science or a bid to keep down the malcontents? An attempt to persuade all those angry young Muslims to pleasure themselves to images of scantily clad lovelies in order to reduce the suicide bomber rate, perhaps.

Sounds like bogus science to me. I go with Mohandas K Gandhi, who opined that not ejaculating was the key to spiritual health and well being. He even subjected himself to the torment of sleeping with nubile young ladies to test his powers of resistance, and was old and wise enough to remain chaste!

I think I could go for that - if only I could find a supply of bashful cow-eyed virgins to practice with.

Your witty and interesting post amuses me. To do full justice in responding to it I need to know if the invitation at the beginning was addressed to females in general.

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Posted: 18 February 2008 10:37 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 75 ]  
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SumonaB - 18 February 2008 06:16 AM

Your witty and interesting post amuses me. To do full justice in responding to it I need to know if the invitation at the beginning was addressed to females in general.

Well, sensing an incrementally raised, albeit still infinitesimal, probability of sensual fulfillment here I’m now hanging on your every word, so of course I have to say it was addressed rather selectively to a lady with a name redolent of sultry promise whose attributes and perfections are less known to me than those of a princess beneath the fullest and blackest hijab, just a pair of eyes twinkling with amusement.

All this, dear readers of all persuasions and genders, is indicative of human psychology at its most atavistic. It suggests all too clearly the extremity to which one may be driven by seeking too earnestly to follow the wise advice of Mahatma Gandhi. More yet, it tends to confirm the veracity of the protestations of romantic love contained in the sublime poetry of Rumi, and suggest the pinnacle of yearning for God to which Jesus in all his innocence was driven. Psychology thus extremized can seem to move reality itself.

Which brings me back to panpsychism. When reality moves, it does so in consciousness dilated to transhuman extremes, from which it is but a bagatelle to perform the induction to infinity and say all is mind, reposing for the most part in deep, deep sleep, waiting for her panpsychic lover to kiss her awake.

AMO ERGO PANPSYCHE EST!

[ Edited: 18 February 2008 10:44 AM by AtheEisegete]
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