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The Problem of Islam
Posted: 27 August 2008 09:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 151 ]  
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lindajean - 24 August 2008 05:18 PM
isocratic infidel - 24 August 2008 04:41 AM
lindajean - 20 August 2008 08:26 PM

Jack

So again, your conclusions about adolescence are premature, if you will, from a scientific perspective.  In other words, your understanding of age, like gender and other social constructs I am sure, is superfically and artifically constructed.  But nice try though.

Our discussion is not about teen emotional and behavioral problems that could stem from cultural perceptions,peer groups or psychological problems in teenagers.  I am also not talking about intelligence, visual acuity or memory skills which are very acute in teens and young people.  I am talking about the ability for teens to discern and reason on the level of adults and to understand long-term cause and effect consequences. 

As your fine ( Dr. Jay Gied) has already reported,  “the adolescent brain, while fully grown in size, is still a long way from maturity.”

That is the relevant point to this discussion.


The fact that young people have good cognitive and intelligence skills, have better memory than I do, have very acute visual abilities and have extraordinary potential to mature into successful and   responsible adults is NOT being debated here, Jack, and has no relevance to men who prey on and rape 9 year old girls in the name of marriage and religion.

LJ: You Go Girl! I’ve grown bored with Jack and his irrational rationalizations and justifications and over all inability to think for himself,  but you and bongobongo are doing a most excellent job! Gratzi, merci, gracias, and BRAVOs all around. And I think I speak for all of humanity when I say that.


Jack: If you’re not on ALL of humanity’s side you’re on the wrong side.  Leave ALL girls and women alone, drink several flies and go fuck yourself. 

Oh, and Allah revealed himself to me and told me to tell you that. So OBEY.


As you well know,  Jack is hopeless.  He will say and do and quote anyone to justify raping 9 year olds and making homosexuality (between 2 consenting adults) an evil.  I’m just glad he doesn’t live in my neighborhood, but have true empathy for any female that crosses his path.

That quote you highlight suggesting that adolescent brain is still a long way from maturity is precisely what is debatable according to the article I posted - the Myth of the Teenage Brain.  That should have been apparent to you from the title alone, but I am beginning to wonder if you even did get the essential message of the article.  On top of that, have you no intellect of your own to see that adolescents, at least historically, can be just as mature as ‘adults’ when they are treated as such, and that perhaps Giedd’s samples are not representative of the potential of adolescence/adulthood?  Also, you didn’t respond to the critique of Giedd’s study in the article either.

But if you think that your case that a teenager is not capable of giving consent because you have the force of “science” behind you, I would just have to say you’re fooling yourself, at best.  You’ve simply bought into the “science” that supports the greater myth that teenagers are naturally irresponsible people.

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Posted: 28 August 2008 07:28 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 152 ]  
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Jack Shooter - 28 August 2008 12:59 AM

  Mind you, the strongest proof against your allegations is the actions of the Prophet...

Making sperm spots (peace be upon it)
on his clothes?

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Christian psychopaty:

Bruce Burleson
“.Tell me why it is wrong to rape, steal and kill….
…If I am a slaveholder in Alabama in 1860, why shouldn’t I enslave the niggers, fuck their women, and whip their children when they disobey me????
I’ll tell you why, and it is the ONLY reason why
..”

..he fears gods punishment.

Christians per definition has no moral.
They are governed by fear and fear only.

..and they don’t mind using the N-word.

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Posted: 28 August 2008 04:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 153 ]  
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Jack S
That quote you highlight suggesting that adolescent brain is still a long way from maturity is precisely what is debatable according to the article I posted - the Myth of the Teenage Brain.  That should have been apparent to you from the title alone, but I am beginning to wonder if you even did get the essential message of the article.

It’s only debatable if you believe culture is determining it.

On top of that, have you no intellect of your own to see that adolescents, at least historically, can be just as mature as ‘adults’ when they are treated as such, and that perhaps Giedd’s samples are not representative of the potential of adolescence/adulthood?  Also, you didn’t respond to the critique of Giedd’s study in the article either.

 

Once again you have missed the point in defining the differences discussed in the article.  Your own doctor that you are quoting from Frontline (Giedd) says their minds are immature and you refuse to acknowledge this is the case because you believe any differences in a teen’s mind and adult mind is because they are culturally treated like children. Read your own sources again Jack. 

But if you think that your case that a teenager is not capable of giving consent because you have the force of “science” behind you, I would just have to say you’re fooling yourself, at best.  You’ve simply bought into the “science” that supports the greater myth that teenagers are naturally irresponsible people.

What I have “bought” into is the science—-coming out of the NIH—-the most respected academic work of science on the planet—-that understands the nuances of differences found in a teens brain that are without a doubt different than adults.  These differences are due to physiology, and I am not talking about what you keep clinging to—-memory, intelligence and perception—-and these are not what I am arguing.


I am sure many 14 and 15 year olds would eagerly give their consent to drive a car, vote in the elections, drink alcohol at a bar,  and sign a contract to buy a house, but they cannot give their consent for any of these things because they are not competent enough to do so.  Just as a 9 year old is not competent to consent to sex.  And if you want to engage is such a practice it speaks volumes about who you are to the core.

There is nothing to add to the critique.  I’ve already made it clear that any emotional or behavioral problems found in teens is not the issue. Again,  I am not talking about perception, memory or intelligence so let go of it!

If you want to say that something is wrong according to today’s standards (loose standards I might add), thats fine, but don’t try to support your baseless assumptions with the force of science.  That’s dishonest.

Bullshit.  There is nothing dishonest against backing up my statements with scientific research. Unless you believe your antiquated religion is a better “source”.

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Posted: 29 August 2008 06:16 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 154 ]  
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lindajean - 28 August 2008 08:25 PM

Jack S
That quote you highlight suggesting that adolescent brain is still a long way from maturity is precisely what is debatable according to the article I posted - the Myth of the Teenage Brain.  That should have been apparent to you from the title alone, but I am beginning to wonder if you even did get the essential message of the article.

It’s only debatable if you believe culture is determining it.

On top of that, have you no intellect of your own to see that adolescents, at least historically, can be just as mature as ‘adults’ when they are treated as such, and that perhaps Giedd’s samples are not representative of the potential of adolescence/adulthood?  Also, you didn’t respond to the critique of Giedd’s study in the article either.

 

Once again you have missed the point in defining the differences discussed in the article.  Your own doctor that you are quoting from Frontline (Giedd) says their minds are immature and you refuse to acknowledge this is the case because you believe any differences in a teen’s mind and adult mind is because they are culturally treated like children. Read your own sources again Jack. 

But if you think that your case that a teenager is not capable of giving consent because you have the force of “science” behind you, I would just have to say you’re fooling yourself, at best.  You’ve simply bought into the “science” that supports the greater myth that teenagers are naturally irresponsible people.

What I have “bought” into is the science—-coming out of the NIH—-the most respected academic work of science on the planet—-that understands the nuances of differences found in a teens brain that are without a doubt different than adults.  These differences are due to physiology, and I am not talking about what you keep clinging to—-memory, intelligence and perception—-and these are not what I am arguing.


I am sure many 14 and 15 year olds would eagerly give their consent to drive a car, vote in the elections, drink alcohol at a bar,  and sign a contract to buy a house, but they cannot give their consent for any of these things because they are not competent enough to do so.  Just as a 9 year old is not competent to consent to sex.  And if you want to engage is such a practice it speaks volumes about who you are to the core.

There is nothing to add to the critique.  I’ve already made it clear that any emotional or behavioral problems found in teens is not the issue. Again,  I am not talking about perception, memory or intelligence so let go of it!

If you want to say that something is wrong according to today’s standards (loose standards I might add), thats fine, but don’t try to support your baseless assumptions with the force of science.  That’s dishonest.

Bullshit.  There is nothing dishonest against backing up my statements with scientific research. Unless you believe your antiquated religion is a better “source”.

Scientific research doesn’t say teenagers are incompetent when it comes to anything.  Your just drawing conclusions where there are none, to support your myths.

Anyway, let’s look at this from another angle.  You are saying a teenager is not competent enough to decide whether or not to engage in sex.  Please define what you mean by competence.

Conventionally, and logically, one is considered competent with respect to making a decision if he/she (1) understands the matter which is to be decided upon, and (2) understands or appreciates the consequences of a decision/indecision for/against the decision that is in question.  So for example, one is understood to be competent to have sex if they understand what sex is, and what the implications/consequences of sex are.  When both of these conditions are filled, one is considered competent.

Are you telling me that an adolescent, simply because his/her brain is not ‘mature’ as say, a 21 year old, is not competent to make any decision that a 21 year old could make?  As a side, perhaps we should restrict middle age adults from certain freedoms given the inevitability of the mid-life crisis, which must obviously be due to specific features of the mid-life brain.

In the end, your argument makes to sense, at best, and insofar as it supposedely relies on science, is, as I said before, dishonest.

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Posted: 29 August 2008 06:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 155 ]  
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bongobongo - 28 August 2008 11:28 AM
Jack Shooter - 28 August 2008 12:59 AM

  Mind you, the strongest proof against your allegations is the actions of the Prophet...

Making sperm spots (peace be upon it)
on his clothes?

Is that your best response?  Please, come again.

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Posted: 29 August 2008 06:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 156 ]  
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author=“Jack Shooter” date=“1220073379”]
Scientific research doesn’t say teenagers are incompetent when it comes to anything.  Your just drawing conclusions where there are none, to support your myths.

Scientific research says a teen’s brain is immature.  Immature means their brain does not understand the depth and breadth of making decisions that often result in cause and effect types of consequences.  I have never said teens are not competent (physically)  to have sex.  Of course they can physically have have sex.  Just as they know how to pour a glass of vodka and drink it and they know how to sign their name on a contract and they know how to start the engine to a car and pull the lever in a voting booth.  They lack maturity and I do not want 15 year old voting for the next president of the USA.  Nor do I want them driving cars or drinking alcohol because they don’t have MATURITY.  And an adult who has sex with a minor is taking extreme advantage of that person just as an adult who gives alcohol to a child and they get drunk or let a 12 year old drive a car on a public street.

You are telling me basically there is no difference between a 9 year old and a 21 year old. 

Anyway, let’s look at this from another angle.  You are saying a teenager is not competent enough to decide whether or not to engage in sex.  Please define what you mean by competence.

I’ve already done that.

Conventionally, and logically, one is considered competent with respect to making a decision if he/she (1) understands the matter which is to be decided upon, and (2) understands or appreciates the consequences of a decision/indecision for/against the decision that is in question.  So for example, one is understood to be competent to have sex if they understand what sex is, and what the implications/consequences of sex are.  When both of these conditions are filled, one is considered competent.

Bullshit.  A 9 year old may understand that driving a car can cause accidents but that does not make a 9 year old competent to drive a car on the LA freeway (or any other public road).

Are you telling me that an adolescent, simply because his/her brain is not ‘mature’ as say, a 21 year old, is not competent to make any decision that a 21 year old could make?  As a side, perhaps we should restrict middle age adults from certain freedoms given the inevitability of the mid-life crisis, which must obviously be due to specific features of the mid-life brain.

This is such a weak argument. A 9 year old is as competent as a 21 year old. You are joking aren’t you?  I’ve already made the point so no reason to repeat.

In the end, your argument makes to sense, at best, and insofar as it supposedely relies on science, is, as I said before, dishonest.

Stop calling me dishonest.

I already explained my science position. There is NOTHING dishonest about saying science indicates a teens’ brain is less mature than an adult.

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Posted: 30 August 2008 12:01 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 157 ]  
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Jack;
I’m still waiting for you response

bongobongo - 21 August 2008 05:32 AM
Jack Shooter - 20 August 2008 07:13 PM

the question is about having sex with a prebuscent girl.  You can’t find any evidence suggesting that Islam allows this...

Yes I can.
Islam allows marriage with a prepubescent child.
Islam does not forbid sex within such a marriage.
On the contrary:

“..Therefore, making mention of the waiting-period for girls who have not yet menstruated, clearly proves that it is not only permissible to give away the girl at this age but it is permissible for the husband to consummate marriage with her. Now, obviously no Muslim has the right to forbid a thing which the Qur’an has held as permissible.”

Tafsir from Maududi
...................

And those of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the ‘Iddah (prescribed period), if you have doubt (about their periods), is three months; and for those who have no courses [(i.e. they are still immature) their ‘Iddah (prescribed period) is three months likewise”. He said: The same applies to the ‘idaah for girls who do not menstruate because they are too young, if their husbands divorce them after consummating the marriage with them.

Tafsir Al-Tabari


...................

quran 2:223 “Your women are a tilth for you (to cultivate) so go to your tilth as ye will, and send (good deeds) before you for your souls, and fear Allah, and know that ye will (one day) meet Him. Give glad tidings to believers, (O Muhammad).

.

 Signature 

Christian psychopaty:

Bruce Burleson
“.Tell me why it is wrong to rape, steal and kill….
…If I am a slaveholder in Alabama in 1860, why shouldn’t I enslave the niggers, fuck their women, and whip their children when they disobey me????
I’ll tell you why, and it is the ONLY reason why
..”

..he fears gods punishment.

Christians per definition has no moral.
They are governed by fear and fear only.

..and they don’t mind using the N-word.

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Posted: 05 September 2008 04:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 158 ]  
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lindajean - 29 August 2008 10:49 PM

author=“Jack Shooter” date=“1220073379”]
Scientific research doesn’t say teenagers are incompetent when it comes to anything.  Your just drawing conclusions where there are none, to support your myths.

Scientific research says a teen’s brain is immature.  Immature means their brain does not understand the depth and breadth of making decisions that often result in cause and effect types of consequences.  I have never said teens are not competent (physically)  to have sex.  Of course they can physically have have sex.  Just as they know how to pour a glass of vodka and drink it and they know how to sign their name on a contract and they know how to start the engine to a car and pull the lever in a voting booth.  They lack maturity and I do not want 15 year old voting for the next president of the USA.  Nor do I want them driving cars or drinking alcohol because they don’t have MATURITY.  And an adult who has sex with a minor is taking extreme advantage of that person just as an adult who gives alcohol to a child and they get drunk or let a 12 year old drive a car on a public street.

You are telling me basically there is no difference between a 9 year old and a 21 year old. 

Anyway, let’s look at this from another angle.  You are saying a teenager is not competent enough to decide whether or not to engage in sex.  Please define what you mean by competence.

I’ve already done that.

Conventionally, and logically, one is considered competent with respect to making a decision if he/she (1) understands the matter which is to be decided upon, and (2) understands or appreciates the consequences of a decision/indecision for/against the decision that is in question.  So for example, one is understood to be competent to have sex if they understand what sex is, and what the implications/consequences of sex are.  When both of these conditions are filled, one is considered competent.

Bullshit.  A 9 year old may understand that driving a car can cause accidents but that does not make a 9 year old competent to drive a car on the LA freeway (or any other public road).

Are you telling me that an adolescent, simply because his/her brain is not ‘mature’ as say, a 21 year old, is not competent to make any decision that a 21 year old could make?  As a side, perhaps we should restrict middle age adults from certain freedoms given the inevitability of the mid-life crisis, which must obviously be due to specific features of the mid-life brain.

This is such a weak argument. A 9 year old is as competent as a 21 year old. You are joking aren’t you?  I’ve already made the point so no reason to repeat.

In the end, your argument makes to sense, at best, and insofar as it supposedely relies on science, is, as I said before, dishonest.

Stop calling me dishonest.

I already explained my science position. There is NOTHING dishonest about saying science indicates a teens’ brain is less mature than an adult.

Sorry, but I do feel you are being dishonest.  There is NO inherent difference between a nine year old who has reached maturity (i.e. puberty) and a 21 year old, just like there is no real difference between a 21 year old and a 33 year old, except in what SOCIETY dictates.  Given similar circumstances, there is NO evidence to suggest one is more “mature” than the other.  Basically, you are making assumptions based on social constructs of age, and then trying to back it up with science - like I said, dishonest.

Thus, going back to the issue of competency, nothing you have said shows that a younger teen must necessarily be less COMPETENT than an older one.  Again, the differences you might see are socially constructed.  I can show you some teens that are far more mature than most 40 year olds nowadays.

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Posted: 05 September 2008 04:12 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 159 ]  
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bongobongo - 30 August 2008 04:01 AM

Jack;
I’m still waiting for you response

bongobongo - 21 August 2008 05:32 AM
Jack Shooter - 20 August 2008 07:13 PM

the question is about having sex with a prebuscent girl.  You can’t find any evidence suggesting that Islam allows this...

Yes I can.
Islam allows marriage with a prepubescent child.
Islam does not forbid sex within such a marriage.
On the contrary:

“..Therefore, making mention of the waiting-period for girls who have not yet menstruated, clearly proves that it is not only permissible to give away the girl at this age but it is permissible for the husband to consummate marriage with her. Now, obviously no Muslim has the right to forbid a thing which the Qur’an has held as permissible.”

Tafsir from Maududi
...................

And those of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the ‘Iddah (prescribed period), if you have doubt (about their periods), is three months; and for those who have no courses [(i.e. they are still immature) their ‘Iddah (prescribed period) is three months likewise”. He said: The same applies to the ‘idaah for girls who do not menstruate because they are too young, if their husbands divorce them after consummating the marriage with them.

Tafsir Al-Tabari


...................

quran 2:223 “Your women are a tilth for you (to cultivate) so go to your tilth as ye will, and send (good deeds) before you for your souls, and fear Allah, and know that ye will (one day) meet Him. Give glad tidings to believers, (O Muhammad).

.

Sorry, but I’m not in a hurry.  You’ll just have to wait.

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Posted: 05 September 2008 03:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 160 ]  
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“Society dictates” is a wimpy way to dismiss the scientific evidence that shows teens’ brains are less developed in certain ways. “Maturity” is also an ambiguous word as well, since you have now defined 8 year olds and 21 year olds as having the same “maturity” level whatever the hell that may mean.

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Posted: 05 September 2008 08:54 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 161 ]  
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Jack Shooter - 05 September 2008 08:10 AM

Thus, going back to the issue of competency, nothing you have said shows that a younger teen must necessarily be less COMPETENT than an older one.  Again, the differences you might see are socially constructed.  I can show you some teens that are far more mature than most 40 year olds nowadays.

Jack o** Shooter, similarly the holiness of BPUH is only socially constructed. Utilizing your own words. Your rational thinking has nothing to do with reality. You are so immature socially and humanistically speaking that is ok for you to be a Muslim. Stay where you belong, and dream about the world being like you and BPUH. Be preparing for a rude awakening.

[ Edited: 06 September 2008 02:47 AM by mammooth]
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“Life is the COEXISTENCE of opposites values”
Love is Forgiveness
Peace is Tolerance
“In the beginning Man created God according to his own image and understanding. Over the years as Men understanding of morality, violence and tolerance evolves, so evolves our understanding of a Loving God”.

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Posted: 06 September 2008 08:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 162 ]  
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Admin - 05 May 2008 12:56 PM

Is Sam being too hard on Islam in this Huffington Post piece?

Losing Our Spines to Save Our Necks

Only if by “too hard” you mean “full of little brown things like goats leave behind”. Sam’s job is to be too hard on religion. That’s what they pay him for.

Islam has meant many things over the centuries and will doubtless mean many more. Most of the Muslims I hang out with like my wife just look and shrug at this sort of thing. They aren’t going to blow up planes or cut off people’s heads. Their religion doesn’t make them any more likely to do so. They are liberal-minded and not prone to hurting others. They say it’s because of their religion. And they certainly know their own minds better than he.

You could make a much better case for the bloodthirsty and murderous nature of atheism. Consider the officially atheist regimes of the last two and a half centuries. I’m not talking about governments which failed to include religion or ones which made a decision to separate religious authority from civil. I mean the ones which explicitly stated “We are an atheistic government”. You start with the French Revolution and its Terror. Jump ahead. The next one is the Soviet Union. Then Mao’s China, Pol Pot’s Cambodia and the repressive post-American Vietnam.

Agnostic goverments can be good or bad. Atheistic ones have been pretty uniformly evil. By comparison the Iranians are bastions of enlightenment and tolerance, and Father Coughlin seems warm and homey.

So yes, Sam was shrill, stupid, unjust, completely outside the facts and utterly and unrepentantly prejudiced on this one. He stepped on his manhood and shot himself in the foot.

Mostly what he did was find a parade of bigotry and intolerance and ran along in front of it waving a bannr. For this particular column, screw him. Or to paraphrase George Carlin unscrew him. Screwings too good for him.

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Posted: 07 September 2008 07:50 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 163 ]  
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Agnostic goverments can be good or bad. Atheistic ones have been pretty uniformly evil. By comparison the Iranians are bastions of enlightenment and tolerance, and Father Coughlin seems warm and homey.


And theocracies - good or bad? You have an example of a successful theocracy? The Iranian theocracy, the Islamic Republic of Iran, is a bastion of enlightenment and tolerance? Then why are the Sufis being arrested? One could open a Baptist church in Iran? One could stand for election as president of Iran without the approval of the Supreme Leader - an Islamic cleric? My Iranian friends tell me that Iranians have gone underground for fear of the terror and intolerance of the Islamic government of Iran. They do not dare to express their true opinions, either political or religious, outside the circle of family and close friends for fear of arrest. Get some education and awareness here.

Stay Well
Wotansson

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Posted: 07 September 2008 01:46 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 164 ]  
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I don’t like the Saudis, Manifest Destiny, or the priests of Huitzilopochtli any more than I like Robespierre, Beria or Pol Pot. They are all symptoms of the same disease of the human spirit. The love of power over others and the pleasures of cruelty and domination are most dangerous when they are disguised as service to a greater good.

People want to believe in something or someone. If they aren’t inclined to supernatural creatures they’ll find a philosophical ideal, an emotion, a person or a political system. The most ardent atheists believe their ethics and the power of judgment and reason even in the face of all evidence to the contrary. There seems to be a human need to believe in something. The particular object really doesn’t matter all that much.

So we make gods to believe in. We call them all sorts of things like Brahma and Jehovah and The Market and Reason and Nature. They are reflections of what we want and how we see ourselves. If the things we want are good our gods reflect that. They do not often represent what is best in us; our gods can be pretty vile and allow us to be even worse in the name of The Invisible Hand of the Free Market or Jesus or The Will of the Proletariat.

When belief serves selfish and brutal ends it encourages selfish and brutal deeds. When it serves compassion and the development of human potential it makes people better. Belief in the Christian God has been the vehicle and inspiration for Nativism, Know-Nothingism, Dominionism and America’s current decline into classic Fascism. It has also seen the first three Great Awakenings which led to the American Revolution and the best flowering of the Enlightenment, Abolition, Universal Suffrage, prison reform, worker’s rights, Populism and the foundations of the New Deal. Same putative God, radically different results.

Belief in something negative is very dangerous and not terribly productive. If your deepest definition of what you are and what you believe is “I’m not this” or “I’m against that” all you really have is opposition to something bad. There isn’t much room for anything good. Even worse, you depend on something you hate to give yourself a sense of purpose. That’s a cold, sad empty place to live. And it breeds cold, sad, bitter people whose quest for monsters to slay turns them into monsters themselves.

The various Inquisitions, Peoples’ Tribunals and Wahabite courts are perfect examples. They define themselves by opposition to heresy and error. There will always be more heresy and error.

When you run out of Capitalists there are intellectuals. When you run out of intellectuals there are people who wear glasses. “Don’t show your tits to strangers. Cover them up with your veils,” turns into “If the mesh on your burqa is too coarse it’s just like committing adultery.” Anti-Communism becomes anti-Socialism becomes opposition to all social welfare and ends up with Fox News’ Jonathan Hoenig stating the very ideas of charity or the common good are un-American (http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Fox_business_analyst_Call_for_national_0715.html).

We make idols and believe in them. The people who claim to be iconoclasts are no better and often worse. Everything we do is imperfect and generally leads to tears. That’s because we are more comfortable with our (false) gods and ignore reality. But there’s a solution. You have to get your mind right by having the right intention and perspective. You need to live ethically. You need to work at being awake and aware all the time. And you need to help others do the same thing.

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Posted: 22 September 2008 08:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 165 ]  
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Jack Shooter - 05 September 2008 08:12 AM
bongobongo - 30 August 2008 04:01 AM

Jack;
I’m still waiting for you response

bongobongo - 21 August 2008 05:32 AM
Jack Shooter - 20 August 2008 07:13 PM

the question is about having sex with a prebuscent girl.  You can’t find any evidence suggesting that Islam allows this...

Yes I can.
Islam allows marriage with a prepubescent child.
Islam does not forbid sex within such a marriage.
On the contrary:

“..Therefore, making mention of the waiting-period for girls who have not yet menstruated, clearly proves that it is not only permissible to give away the girl at this age but it is permissible for the husband to consummate marriage with her. Now, obviously no Muslim has the right to forbid a thing which the Qur’an has held as permissible.”

Tafsir from Maududi
...................

And those of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the ‘Iddah (prescribed period), if you have doubt (about their periods), is three months; and for those who have no courses [(i.e. they are still immature) their ‘Iddah (prescribed period) is three months likewise”. He said: The same applies to the ‘idaah for girls who do not menstruate because they are too young, if their husbands divorce them after consummating the marriage with them.

Tafsir Al-Tabari


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quran 2:223 “Your women are a tilth for you (to cultivate) so go to your tilth as ye will, and send (good deeds) before you for your souls, and fear Allah, and know that ye will (one day) meet Him. Give glad tidings to believers, (O Muhammad).

.

Sorry, but I’m not in a hurry.  You’ll just have to wait.

(Now one month later) ...so I was right.
You were wrong.
Your silly book does allow sex with
prepubescent children.

Disgusting

 Signature 

Christian psychopaty:

Bruce Burleson
“.Tell me why it is wrong to rape, steal and kill….
…If I am a slaveholder in Alabama in 1860, why shouldn’t I enslave the niggers, fuck their women, and whip their children when they disobey me????
I’ll tell you why, and it is the ONLY reason why
..”

..he fears gods punishment.

Christians per definition has no moral.
They are governed by fear and fear only.

..and they don’t mind using the N-word.

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