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    <title type="text">Sam Harris.org Reader Forum</title>
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    <rights>Copyright (c) 2013</rights>
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    <id>tag:samharris.org,2013:05:18</id>


    <entry>
      <title>Could There be a Truely Scientific Religion&#63;</title>
      <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.samharris.org/forum/viewthread8646/viewthread/17170/" />      
      <id>tag:samharris.org,2013:forum/viewthread8646/viewthread/.17170</id>
      <published>2013-05-08T14:41:40Z</published>
      <updated>0</updated>
      <author><name>Gnosis</name></author>
      <content type="html">
      <![CDATA[
        <p>Could there be a Religion that was rational and scientific?</p>

<p><br />
I ask because I have given it a lot of thought and kicked this idea around for years elsewhere.&nbsp; Not because I am or would like to be religious, but because I understand that not everyone wants to, can, or gets paid to learn stuff all the time - and if they aren&#8217;t learning it or doing it - then, my friends, they are BELIEVING in it. <br />
&nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  ~*~<br />
I teach my students and encourage my peers not to get peeved when people say they &#8220;believe&#8221; in evolution.&nbsp; To expect everyone&#8217;s understanding to be scientific is to misunderstand the way people work completely.&nbsp; People are MORE efficient than science, because of belief.&nbsp; If you don&#8217;t like that word then experiment with the ways it is similar to &#8220;trust&#8221;.&nbsp; When a person demonstrates themselves to be reliable, rational,... right, dependably, then you trust them - and you believe them.&nbsp; </p>

<p><br />
When someone on the bus asks what I do and then asks, &#8220;Oh, so you believe in Evolution?&#8221;&nbsp; I say &#8220;Yeah, but I&#8217;ve held the &#8220;stuff&#8221; in my hands and work with it every day - so its easy to believe in.&#8221;&nbsp; You should see how much a difference that makes on their face compared to &#8220;I don&#8217;t believe anything&#8221;.&nbsp; Which is a horribly prickish and by the way completely dishonest statement.&nbsp; As a scientist, I know some science through a practice of science and i know others by believing in other people&#8217;s science.&nbsp; Yes they give me good reason to believe until someone else gives me better reasons to change my beliefs.</p>

<p><br />
There is good reason for the uninformed person to believe in evolution and science.&nbsp; The more we tell them, &#8220;You can&#8217;t believe, you have to be critical and informed and scientific.&#8221;&nbsp; The more people we exclude rather than inform. <br />
&nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  ~*~<br />
What would a rational scientific Religion look like?</p>

<p><br />
 Clergy as trained scientists rituals developed and tested for effectiveness: Does the mantra really help you focus on controlling your emotion? Does the coming of age ceremony really help youngsters to manage the transition to adulthood?&nbsp; Rituals of death, birth and marriage - do these things help people manage their thoughts?&nbsp; Does meditation reveal parts of your mind and body your conscious narrative normally shouts over - can it calm you and refocus you?</p>

<p><br />
Is their power/solace/peace in knowing others believe like you do?&nbsp; And are right there to help if you should need it?&nbsp; <br />
&nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  &nbsp;  ~*~<br />
...Good reason to believe&#8230;</p>
      ]]>
      </content>
    </entry>

    <entry>
      <title>Arguing over religion</title>
      <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.samharris.org/forum/viewthread8646/viewthread/17157/" />      
      <id>tag:samharris.org,2013:forum/viewthread8646/viewthread/.17157</id>
      <published>2013-04-16T21:01:42Z</published>
      <updated>0</updated>
      <author><name>NewShoe</name></author>
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      <![CDATA[
        <p> This week I found myself argueing with strangers online over religious stuff. I wish I could just let it go, and not feel the need to address religious topics. Things the listener obviously did not want challanged. Of course there were counter points and attacks. Its such a rocky issue. I often feel bad now for rocking the boat, disturbing someones &#8216;peace&#8217;. But then again, I really think that people need to question things, take a second look at what they really believe and why. </p>

<p>But why should I take the effort to do that? especially when I probably won&#8217;t really have any impact,&nbsp; possibly even a negative impact, if I don&#8217;t make a conviencing enough case. I sometimes find that I don&#8217;t always make the full effort, because it will take too much time. But sometimes it doesn&#8217;t make a difference anyway. </p>


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    </entry>

    <entry>
      <title>In depth survey or poll regarding the reasons for atheistic belief</title>
      <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.samharris.org/forum/viewthread8646/viewthread/17155/" />      
      <id>tag:samharris.org,2013:forum/viewthread8646/viewthread/.17155</id>
      <published>2013-04-10T02:13:49Z</published>
      <updated>0</updated>
      <author><name>Slik00Silk</name></author>
      <content type="html">
      <![CDATA[
        <p>&nbsp;   I am assuming that more in depth surveys and/or polls have been done regarding atheism than just the simple ones that just count heads.&nbsp; Given the scientific bent of many atheists, it seems inevitable that some surveys have been done.&nbsp; </p>

<p>&nbsp;   I am talking about surveys that cover such questions as:</p>

<p>&nbsp;   religious, cultural, and enviromental  background<br />
&nbsp;   education - institutional and otherwise.<br />
&nbsp;   direct or indirect influence of other people<br />
&nbsp;   a breakdown of atheist beliefs/reasons such as psychology, historical, scientific, etc,,<br />
&nbsp;  &nbsp; </p>

<p>&nbsp;   If anyone can direct me to any such information I could sure use the help. </p>


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    </entry>

    <entry>
      <title>How do I pursue Atheism as a career choice&#63;&#63;</title>
      <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.samharris.org/forum/viewthread8646/viewthread/17141/" />      
      <id>tag:samharris.org,2013:forum/viewthread8646/viewthread/.17141</id>
      <published>2013-03-17T20:38:44Z</published>
      <updated>0</updated>
      <author><name>J_Koji</name></author>
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      <![CDATA[
        <p><br />
Hi, I&#8217;ve been studying Atheism for only a year solid&#8230;but I recognize that I have a great passion and yearning to learn everything i can (thru authors and youtube vids) about this topic.</p>

<p>I can really see myself delving deeply into this and would love to make it a life long career choice in some shape or form.</p>

<p>Any ideas on what I can do? </p>

<p>I&#8217;m currently a Junior at a FL based college and been tinkering with the idea of starting my own &#8220;Free Thinkers&#8221; Club..promoting books like The God Delusion and The End of Faith, respectively. Also Meetup.com is an interesting avenue to take also&#8230;</p>

<p><br />
I just need to get a jump start on how to make this a productive career choice&#8230;</p>
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    </entry>

    <entry>
      <title>Is religion the Stockholm Syndrome of the masses&#63;</title>
      <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.samharris.org/forum/viewthread8646/viewthread/17128/" />      
      <id>tag:samharris.org,2013:forum/viewthread8646/viewthread/.17128</id>
      <published>2013-02-19T05:09:03Z</published>
      <updated>0</updated>
      <author><name>gsmonks</name></author>
      <content type="html">
      <![CDATA[
        <p>I was just participating in the YouTube comments section of a video titled &#8220;Is It Time For All Religions To Accept Evolution&#8221;, and one commenter, using the monicker &#8220;dazdingoz0r&#8221;, made a comment that really caught my attention. </p>

<p><br />
The comment was this, regarding religion:</p>

<p><br />
&#8220;Because it is a mental disease. It`s the Stockholm Syndrome of the masses:</p>

<p><br />
&#8220;captor in control of everything good and bad&#8212;checked<br />
&#8220;belief that every second without punishment is an act of love and a blessing from the captor&#8212;checked<br />
&#8220;claiming the captor loves them and? they love him back&#8212;checked<br />
&#8220;jumping in his defense even though he`s in an indefensible position&#8212;checked.</p>

<p><br />
&#8220;It meets the criteria on all points.&#8221;</p>

<p><br />
I&#8217;m posting the comment here because I think this point may have serious merit. It&#8217;s a slant on religion I&#8217;ve never encountered before, and if true is truly brilliant.</p>
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    </entry>

    <entry>
      <title>Faith Healing, curses etc&#8230;</title>
      <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.samharris.org/forum/viewthread8646/viewthread/17123/" />      
      <id>tag:samharris.org,2013:forum/viewthread8646/viewthread/.17123</id>
      <published>2013-02-05T23:57:39Z</published>
      <updated>0</updated>
      <author><name>NewShoe</name></author>
      <content type="html">
      <![CDATA[
        <p>I find the idea of faith healing very appealing. I do have reason to want it to work, and in fact I had a person attempt to faith heal me. It didn&#8217;t work. Is this enough reason for disbelief? I suppose my disbelief or lack of faith might have gotten in the way. I really wanted it to happen, but I suppose this is ultimately different from faith? </p>

<p>What about curses? There have been times in my life that I have felt cursed. I now think that was very irrational to connect events that have no logical connection. Someone this evening suggested that he and I are cursed. I found that so irrational. I don&#8217;t know if there is any such thing as a curse. In atheist terms is there any such thing as a curse? what about an atheist miracle?</p>
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    </entry>

    <entry>
      <title>Atheist hymns</title>
      <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.samharris.org/forum/viewthread8646/viewthread/17109/" />      
      <id>tag:samharris.org,2013:forum/viewthread8646/viewthread/.17109</id>
      <published>2013-01-27T00:25:20Z</published>
      <updated>0</updated>
      <author><name>NewShoe</name></author>
      <content type="html">
      <![CDATA[
        <p>Is there such a thing as an Atheist hymn? Something to provide comfort in times of need?</p>
      ]]>
      </content>
    </entry>

    <entry>
      <title>Does God hate fat people&#63; (the mind/brain link)</title>
      <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.samharris.org/forum/viewthread8646/viewthread/17094/" />      
      <id>tag:samharris.org,2013:forum/viewthread8646/viewthread/.17094</id>
      <published>2013-01-11T03:29:49Z</published>
      <updated>0</updated>
      <author><name>tsdesign</name></author>
      <content type="html">
      <![CDATA[
        <p><em>A commentary on the link between consciousness and the physical mechanisms that facilitate it.</em></p>

<p><br />
Admittedly the title is intentionally provocative, however it is relevant to the larger point I want to make and subsequently have you critique. And please forgive me if I misuse some terms in an attempt to make that point. My goal is to communicate the larger concept.</p>

<p><br />
People who adhere to the traditional notions of religion are slowly adapting to scientific advances by, ironically, claiming them as proof of a creator of some sort. They even accept the neurological explanations of thoughts, emotions, and behaviors. However they cling to the lapse in empirical explanations of consciousness and fill the void with a magical, omnipresent creator. Linking the physical mechanisms of brain function with the mystical notion of consciousness, or mind, has far reaching consequences for the “believer.”</p>

<p><br />
If you accept that the method of communication of a transcendent force requires a physical brain to process and give the experience meaning, then anything that inhibits the transmission of this information should be the most offensive transgression against spirituality ever conceived. This means that people who not only neglect their health, but fail to do everything possible to promote it, are actively behaving in opposition to the creator. Smoking, drinking, and eating trans-fats should all be much more deleterious to your eternal soul than homosexuality since they increase the risk for damage to your health and ultimately your brain. Yet, the overwhelming balance of sinful behavior in traditional religious texts deals with sins of behavior having little to do with the risk of bodily harm or brain damage.</p>

<p><br />
I’m under the impression that traditional texts generally fail to identify health and brain function as the primary facilitators of transcendent principles and ultimate salvation. It seems to me the focus is, as Sam Harris puts it,<a href="http://www.samharris.org/?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fyoutu.be%2Fwi2IC6e5DUY%3Ft%3D10m"> “… what we do while naked.”</a> If a creator communicated anything about ultimate truths to our species it should have been that we have no higher purpose than to protect our health, and specifically our brains, because without them we will have no other way of understanding any experiences of transcendence we may have. To my mind this is an additional proof that a creator does not exist. This principle also applies to many new-age thinkers who seek universal truths and understanding beyond our physical being. The only way to convert that meaning to worldly action is through the physical mechanisms involved with consciousness. They, above all people, should hold the preservation and improvement of the brain as primary above any behavior.</p>

<p><br />
As a side note, this should also motivate conservative Christians to promote some system of universal health care (not necessarily &#8220;Obama-care). Any opposition to the promotion or facilitation of health and wellness for all “God’s children” should be seen as sinful and antithetical to the pursuit of revelation of the creator.</p>

<p><br />
So does God hate people who neglect their health?</p>
      ]]>
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    </entry>

    <entry>
      <title>Man exposes ABC New&#8217;s misleading lies about Islam</title>
      <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.samharris.org/forum/viewthread8646/viewthread/17090/" />      
      <id>tag:samharris.org,2013:forum/viewthread8646/viewthread/.17090</id>
      <published>2013-01-08T02:23:56Z</published>
      <updated>0</updated>
      <author><name>Granpa</name></author>
      <content type="html">
      <![CDATA[
        <p>It&#8217;s unbelievable how utterly misleading the media tries to be about Islam. </p>

<p><a href="http://www.samharris.org/?URL=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Ffeature%3Dplayer_embedded%26v%3DxZ5Bwj3iTrg">https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&amp;v=xZ5Bwj3iTrg</a></p>
      ]]>
      </content>
    </entry>

    <entry>
      <title>oliver sacks</title>
      <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.samharris.org/forum/viewthread8646/viewthread/17084/" />      
      <id>tag:samharris.org,2012:forum/viewthread8646/viewthread/.17084</id>
      <published>2012-12-25T15:58:02Z</published>
      <updated>0</updated>
      <author><name>flaneur</name></author>
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      <![CDATA[
        <p><a href="http://www.samharris.org/?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theatlantic.com%2Fhealth%2Farchive%2F2012%2F12%2Fseeing-god-in-the-third-millenium%2F266134%2F%23">http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/12/seeing-god-in-the-third-millenium/266134/#</a></p>
      ]]>
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    </entry>


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