Sam Harris.org Reader Forum

Philosophy or Reality

2013-06-11T09:22:40+00:00

1) Evolution has made ??beliefs to bridle knowledge. Why knowledge needs to be controlled? Why does it needs to be distorted?
(Français: L’évolution a fabriqué la croyance pour brider la connaissance. Pourquoi la connaissance a-t-elle besoin d’être contrôlée? Pourquoi doit-elle être déformée?)

2) The creation of an existence only serves those that already exist, when he do not control the creation or the path that will follow this existence, the creator is an idiot or a sadist.
(Français: La création d’une existence ne sert que ceux qui existent déjà, quand il ne contrôle pas la création ou le chemin que suivra cette existence, le créateur est un idiot ou un sadique.)

Old solutions cannot solve 21st Century problems

2013-06-02T14:59:44+00:00

There was a time when this country was mostly rural, and approximately 60% of workers were employed in agriculture. After the industrial revolution began, the majority of the workforce began shifting to manufacturing, while mechanized farming, began to replace many of the more labor intensive aspects of farming, (currently, less than 2% work in agriculture). Technology kept on the march, manufacturing jobs have either been mechanized, or moved offshore to take advantage of cheap, unskilled labor. As a result, now our workforce is primarily engaged in service industries. Many service jobs have also been made unnecessary by advances in technology. Cashiers, clerks, bank tellers, photo labs, phone operators and television repairmen, are no longer needed as machines have become more efficient, less expensive, and more reliable than people. Machines don’t join unions, steal, complain, take days off or need medical insurance. Osha doesn’t need to check on their working conditions. There are machines that couldn’t have been imagined 20 years ago, that now rent us videos, while robots are performing surgery. In the near future, “smart” vehicles and road systems will eliminate the need for human drivers. Accidents, road-rage, intoxicated drivers, will all be bad memories of the past. Nothing ever comes without a price, and we will also make thousands of driving jobs, and hordes of ticket-writing police, jobs of the past. Machines will continue taking the place of pilots and other military jobs that put people in harms way. Loading our children on buses and delivering them to expensive school buildings to educate them will also be a thing of the past. Why should an average teacher be teaching 30 students per class, when the best teachers, the cream, (some of you know the type of teacher I’m referring to), could be teaching thousands of students. Jobs will continue to be rendered obsolete or unnecessary by the by the ingenuity of man…. MILLIONS of more jobs.

This has always been a good thing in a culture where the act of giving is seen as a virtuous quality. It wasn’t that many generations ago when a man and wife spent most of their waking hours obtaining and maintaining the basic necessities of food, shelter, clothing and fuel. There were no days off, no vacations. Life was short, brutal, and cheap. Children had to do their share of serious work too, on farms and in factories. Technology, and machines like the automobile, are what made a 5 day, 40 hour work week, the exodus to the suburbs, homes full of appliances, and vacations, all possible. Technology, was the magic genie that allowed average people to obtain an abundance of goods, services, mobility, and leisure time. A lifestyle that had previously been reserved for the wealthy upper class, was now everymans very obtainable American Dream. We were promised technology would someday all but eliminate boring, repetitive, dangerous jobs. Technology has, up till now, delivered on that promise.There was no reason this trend shouldn’t have continued. A 21st Century where people only needed to work 10-20 hours a week seemed totally within sight. Work would be a part-time activity as technology took over more jobs, while increasing productivity giving us all inexpensive, plentiful goods, along with more time to spend on things like family, education, travel, hobbies, sports, creating literature, music, art, and other forms of enjoying and productively using leisure time .There will be those who will work long hard hours. The ones lucky enough to find their work is their true passion. They will mostly be scientists, craftsmen, teachers, artists, healers, and sports gods. Wars and most crimes won’t happen on a world inhabited by well educated, well fed, happy, satisfied people living fulfilling lives. Man will have finally reached the true Golden Age which had been paid for by the short, often violent lives the vast majority of our ancestors lived. They tried and succeeded. and in increments sometimes too small to measure, they made the world a little easier, a little better for the next generation.

Our species survived mistakes, failures, wars… but the most important thing we overcame was at one time our greatest asset: our survival instinct. That driving force that made us tough, tenacious, and wouldn’t let us give up. The killer instinct of the predator, added to the fear and caution of the prey, combined with the ability to reason, allowed us to survive whatever came our way. We survived things, terrible things that often we would visit on ourselves. It is a powerful drive that doesn’t have an off switch, and for far too many, becomes a horrible addiction that senselessly drives men to take, take, and then take some more, never having quite enough and always greedily looking for devious ways to acquire more. We almost didn’t make it, but we finally grew up. We started by finally allowing ourselves to let go of our fear. That helped break the addiction. We also realized our killer instinct combined with our most powerful weapons, could, and probably, eventually, would, wind up killing everything. We finally realized it might be a good idea to return to one of our basic core values, our basic decency, our basic goodness. The desire and drive that comes from the selfish paternal and maternal urge to leave the world a little better instead of worse, for our kids. Our problems really started to snowball when we stopped doing this, and we began immediately healing once we started again. We became responsible stewards of our planet. We figured out ways to take care of everyone’s basic needs, while providing more choices, and allowing more personal freedom for everyone, than anyone had ever imagined possible. This, or something like it, is what should still be happening. It should be, because just exactly how else could an economy work that only requires 20% of the population to provide 100% of everyone’s needs?

What seems to resemble the path we’re on is a bit different. Our future looks more like this. We can only offer full-time employment to 20% of the population.These lucky 20% will be called Labor, the working middle class, the 20% figure is somewhat inflated, we like to keep the real, paid Labor at a very manageable, highly profitable 6% to 8%, with occasional spikes into the dreaded double digits. We squeeze as much work as possible from Labor, while paying a pittance, a tradition started by men who finally grew up and realized the name of the game was Profit. Labor doesn’t complain. In this system, Labor is thankful, grateful actually as it is a buyers market-wet dream when it comes to Labor. We take good care of labor and even pay them. We also take good care of the other 80%, the trash, and we do it without robbing them of their dignity and honor, and self respect. The stuff that comes from hard work, sacrifice, and taking care of yourself. We tell the whiners a truth some would rather not hear, “If you take care of you, you’re a Man, If I take care of you, you’re my pet, my property.” we provide them low interest loans to buy tools and seeds and allow them to grow food in permitted areas. Most have access to fairly clean water. They are the Trash. They breed like rabbits and die like flies… always have, always will. Hey, it’s just dealt cards. We, on the other hand, the Earners, have built the most profitable, profit Machine the world has ever seen, and as the owners of this Machine every Earner counts their wealth in Billions. The Royal Flush families, however, count their wealth in Trillions, but hey, we deserve it, we’re smarter, healthier, shrewder, and overall better animals than the Labor or the Trash. We invented and developed the technology, the Machine. invested our fortunes in it, fought uprisings, and wars. We made some mistakes, but we kept our wealth, property and power, It’s self-evident that we deserve it, because over generations, we Earned it. People get exactly what they deserve on our planet, and it’s been scientifically proven, more than once, that if you move a piece of trash into one of the mansions, in a year’s time they will have turned it into another trashouse. It’s their nature, in their genes to be Trash. The world needs Trash too, and no one is in charge of who we’re born into. Free will was proved to be an illusion years ago, which also proves everything is exactly the way it’s supposed to be. One should be satisfied with the cards they got dealt. It’s no one’s fault that only the very special few can get dealt the Royal Flushes, Four of a Kinds, and Straight Flushes, while a very lucky piece of Trash might get a small pair. It’s wrong thinking to believe everyone deserves to be happy. If everyone deserved to be happy, well they just would be happy, what a no-brainer. True happiness has to be earned over generations of smart, ruthless Earners, making smart, ruthless decisions. It’s how we got here, it’s how we stay here. End - of - story.

Our 21st Century problems are tough ones, that won’t be easy to solve. The work week is not shrinking, wages are not rising, our standard of living is not improving, the lost jobs are not being replaced this time, and the middle class is not prospering, in fact it is vanishing. That is not to say no one is benefiting. A larger percentage of the world’s total wealth is being accumulated, held, and controlled, by a smaller percentage of the total population than ever before in history. This trend is not going to change with the systems, checks, and balances we now have in place.

Simply put, there is far too much greed, corruption, and waste in the world. We have reached a point in the story of mankind where our culture, our society, our civilization, our way of viewing the world, are all failing us. Old ways of doing things that served us well, are not working anymore. For one thing, it is mathematically impossible to sustain infinite, continued growth, (of any kind), on our finite planet. Our natural resources are shrinking, as our population, (and demand for those resources ), is increasing, yet, ( just one example), we’ve been wasting tremendous amounts of energy, labor and raw materials making things that are carefully designed to break or become obsolete, (it’s a profit thing). Can anyone on the planet explain why this widespread practice, while profitable, isn’t unethical, really stupid, and in a very real way, actually stealing that energy and those resources from a future that will be worse because a greedy, sleazy business practice wasted them? Did we accomplish our best in this country back in the ‘50’s and ‘60’s, when it was common for a business to value things like honor, loyalty, and reputation, because they were considered important ingredients in a company’s long term health, growth, and profit? Didn’t caring about that stuff also help make the world a little better, for the future? Is profit without honor really worth anything? Is a life lived without at least trying to be honorable, a good life, or a life to be ashamed of? If we can’t or won’t change, if we just flat out don’t care about the world our kids and grandkids will have to live in… then we probably don’t deserve to survive. I’m too old to see how all this will eventually play out, and I don’t see any easy solutions, but I still have hope.

The Buddha’s Teaching on the Nature of Reality (Dharma-Vinaya)

2013-05-29T21:48:31+00:00

The following is an overview of The Buddha’s teachings on the nature of reality and the freedom from suffering that it brings. It should be noted that the Buddha called his teachings Dhamma-Vinaya (not “Buddhism”), which basically means the nature of reality, and how to conduct yourself so that you live in accordance with it.

The central principle of buddhism is the concept of Dependent Origination. This is the teaching that all phenomena arise dependent on prior causes and conditions, and whatever the causes and conditions are now will give rise to the phenomena which arise in the future. Nothing is destroyed and nothing is created, but all phenomena are impermanent (e.g. the human body will die and decompose but no part of it is destroyed). If the conditions are present for a particular phenomena to arise it will, and if they aren’t it won’t.

Dependent origination can also be thought of in terms of the causal interdependence of phenomena. The Buddha described this in the following way: the universe is like a giant net, and at each knot of the net is a brilliant jewel. In each face of each jewel is reflected all of the other faces of all of the other jewels. In this analogy each jewel is a phenomena in the universe. When one changes, all the others must change as well.

For example, a human skeleton cannot come into existence (be born) without a muscular system, or an immune system, or without any other system of the body arising along with it. These things can only arise in dependence upon each other. But they also cannot arise without evolution having taken place, without your parents having met and so on. In turn, these events could only have occurred given the life sustaining environment of the earth, the energy provided from plants and animals and sunlight, etc. Following the chains of causality in this way, nothing in the universe is left out.

Leading on from Dependent Origination is the concept of Emptiness. Emptiness can be expressed in three ways. Firstly since all phenomena are dependently originated, a given phenomena can only exist in relation to the causes and conditions which surround it in space and time. Take a human being for example. Everything that a given person is, is merely an expression of that persons genetics (parents, etc), and their environment. A person (or any other phenomena) does not exist independently from the phenomena that surround him/her. Whoever you are as a person is influenced by how you were raised, the type of people you know, the fact that you are reading this right now, etc. Who you are in turn affects the causes and conditions around you, which again come back to affect you. This is the basis of the law of Karma and ethical conduct in Buddhism. To work for the wellbeing of others as if it were your own wellbeing is to maximise the causes and conditions around you, which will in turn maximise your own wellbeing. Conversely to work for your own wellbeing to the detriment of others will do the opposite and in the long run actually condition future suffering.

The second way Emptiness can be thought of is in terms of the parts which compose a whole. Take the concept of a company as an example. A “company” is merely what we call a collection of people, buildings, resources, etc. It is not a single thing in and of itself. All phenomena can be seen in the same way. The human body is not a single entity, but a collection of skin, blood, bone, etc. which interact with each other in a system which is itself not isolated from the rest of the world. Likewise, all the things which make up the human body are just what we call particular collections of atoms which have a familiar form.

The third way that emptiness can be thought of is in terms of the interdependent relationship between perception and external reality. Human beings are not objective observers of the universe; we are merely the parts of the universe that can observe itself. Therefore when something is perceived by a sentient being the objective reality of the mind/brain doing the observing must be taken into account as well. For example, when we look at something and observe it to have a colour, we might mistakenly believe that the colour is an intrinsic property of that object. But of course, colour is merely how the human mind perceives the frequency of light bouncing off the object. There is a causally interdependent relationship between the object being perceived, and the nature of the mind doing the perceiving.

When we analyse any perceptible phenomena we see that it only exists in relation to the causes and conditions which surround it in space and time; that it is composed of interdependent parts which are not itself; and that that how it is perceived is dependent on the mind doing the perceiving. Nothing exists as we perceive it to exist (i.e. when seen as empty people, computers, buildings, etc. don’t truly exist), but at the same time something obviously does exist, since there is experience of it. This is what is meant by Emptiness in Buddhism.

The Buddha was able to perceive that everything is Dependently Originating and Empty through practices which we in the western world call meditation. All meditation really is is taking advantage of the plasticity of the brain to train up the mind’s capacity to observe itself. Having done this himself, the Buddha then saw that thoughts, emotions, the physical body and everything else that can be perceived are dependently originating phenomena, empty of any intrinsic existence. Having seen this, he gained insight into the chains of causality which give rise to human suffering and was able to overcome it. He then taught others how to overcome suffering in two main teachings: The Four Noble Truths, and The Eight-Fold Path to Enlightenment.

Four Noble Truths:

1. Truth of Suffering: No matter how perfect your life, you will get sick, you will age, and you will die. The same will happen to all those you love. Even when everything seems perfect from the outside, you still might not be perfectly happy. Suffering is unavoidable, since birth itself conditions death.

2. Truth of the Causes of Suffering: The Buddha taught that the proximate cause of suffering is craving/aversion. Craving or desiring things which we do not have, or which are by their nature impermanent gives rise to suffering (if not now then in the future). Aversion is just the inverse of craving (i.e. not wanting something you can’t get away from). The ultimate cause of suffering (which itself gives rise to craving) is experiential ignorance of the true nature of subjective experience in terms of dependent origination, emptiness, and the fact that all conditioned phenomena are impermanent, unsatisfactory, and not-self.

3. Truth of the Cessation of Suffering: The complete and irreversible extinction of the capacity to suffer (or in other words, perfect happiness) is possible. This is achieved by removing the causes of suffering.

4. Truth of the Path to Cessation: The causes and conditions which give rise to the cessation of suffering (a state of mind commonly referred to as enlightenment or nirvana) are taught in the Eightfold Path.

Eightfold Path:

1. Right View: An intellectual and experiential understanding of the nature of reality in terms of dependent origination, emptiness, etc. This is gained both through study and meditation. Right View gives rise to Right Intention.

2. Right Intention: The intention to renounce all the things which cause harm to yourself and to others and which impede your progress in meditation; the intention to be free from ill-will towards others; the intention to be harmless towards others. Right Intention gives rise to the following three factors of the path.

Right View / Intention form the Wisdom component of the path.

3. Right Speech: To not engage in speech which is abusive, divisive, false, or idle. Or to put it another way, to speak only things which are true, beneficial, and timely.

4. Right Action: To not engage in actions which are harmful to other sentient beings, i.e. do not steal, do not engage in violence, do not engage in sexual misconduct.

5. Right Livelihood: To not make a living doing things which cause harm to other sentient beings, i.e. not selling poisons, not selling slaves, etc.

Right Speech / Action / Livelihood form the Ethical Conduct component of the path. The Wisdom and Ethical Conduct components form the basis of the following three factors of the path.

6. Right Effort: To make the effort to cultivate and sustain thoughts, emotional states, etc which increase your concern for the wellbeing of others, i.e. love and compassion. Conversely, to make the effort not to cultivate or sustain thoughts / emotions which are selfish and not concerned with the wellbeing of others, i.e anger, hatred or greed. Right Effort can also be thought of as continuously making the effort to cultivate all the other factors of the path.

7. Right Mindfulness: Mindfulness is paying attention to whatever is being experienced in the present moment without judging it or reacting to it. The more you do it, the better you get at it. Mindfulness allows us to not be deceived by what we are experiencing, e.g. by observing thought as just another object of consciousness as opposed to paying attention to the content of thought, which is really just a story the brain tells itself.

8. Right Concentration: Concentration in the Buddhist sense is the narrowing of attention to a single point (the sensation of the breath for example) and keeping it there for an extended period of time. The more you practice it, the better you get at it. Concentration serves the purpose of stilling the mind, so that we can be mindful of the subtle experiences which we usually are not aware of.

Right Effort / Mindfulness / Concentration form the Mind Training or Meditation component of the path. This component provides experiential understanding of the teaching, thus leading back to the Wisdom component.

All eight steps of the path support each other and are to be developed simultaneously. Once all eight are perfected, two more factors are acquired. These are:

Supreme Right View: Complete experiential understanding of the nature of reality as it pertains to the experience of a human being. This means direct perception of dependent origination. The Buddha himself said “whoever perceives the interdependent nature of reality sees the Dharma; and whoever sees the Dharma, sees the Buddha”.

Supreme Right Liberation: Complete liberation from suffering and from philosophical viewpoints or opinions, since the nature of reality can be perceived directly. In Buddhism, all views are wrong views.

How logic and debates based on logic cannot save a soul, going to hell.

2013-05-21T18:35:41+00:00

A very big deception of the devil is to get you to logically debate God, Christianity and other religions. This is one of the surest ways to ensure, that you will never experience real salvation and eternal life, and all the wonderful things God has predestined for you.

Let us just suppose (for those who do not have faith), that even if you argue and debate, and finally, even if it is a long shot, and you finally are logically convinced (by the way, there are many books,eg by thomas equinas that logically prove the christian faith) that there is a God, and that He is the christian God. Does it mean you are going to heaven, just because you are mentally or intellectually convinced that Jesus is God??????

Not at all. Not unless you have a spiritual experience called being born again.A logical belief in Christianity will prevent you from experiencing the Real Deal, that is a Spiritual Salvation in Christ in the following ways:

The devil was once a mighty archangel, and presently with billions of demons, evil spirits, unclean spirits, etc with a far superior intelligence than humans.Each human being is assigned to tens, if not hundreds of evil spirits and demon hordes, that would love for you to deny their existence. For if you deny their existence, then surely you will deny God’s existence. It is extremely easy, 1,2,3 steps for Satan to deceive humans in more than a thousand ways.

Don’t even think for a moment, that you can compete with satan intellectually. However, he has no control over your heart, and what you choose to believe.And that is the loophole, which God has opened up for you. The faith route is the only way you can bypass Satan,and his cronies who guard the intellectual gates of the human mind.

When you get in to the logic debate about God, few important things to consider in SPIRITUAL WORLD which is what actually matters:

1) You could be tempted to fall into the dungeon of SPIRITUAL PRIDE, as you are tricked into judging Almighty God, which is a fool’s folly.Spiritual pride was the reason, for satan’s downfall. Also for man’s downfall, in garden of eden, as eve sucumbed to the temptation about being as knowledgeable as God.

This could also result in the person who is logically convinced that Jesus is God, as an intellectual knowledge of the truth, will become a STUMBLING BLOCK for a real SPIRITUAL SALVATION experience.

2) It could also lead to DECEPTION as the person, cannot find God in the intellectual domain, but only in the Spiritual domain. God’s thoughts are far higher than yours, mine and the devil’s, so you have to trust Him at His word. As it is written in the bible:
Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding.

God is spirit, only a spiritual born again experience can save the person, and the first thing to do is to humble ourselves. Second, we need deliverance from demonic spirits of unbelief that hold people as captives. This can be done if the person humbles himself/herself and receives Jesus Christ into the heart. Deliverance can be done even online, and specific prayers can set the captives free.

I speak from experience. Not here to argue with anyone.

Simple challenge for those who are sincere: Ask God to open your eyes, and to reveal Himself to you.Ask in JESUS name.Simple. Try it. IT WORKS

Historical Interaction with Bible

2013-05-19T14:22:38+00:00

When Scripture was essentially one long word, having no spaces between words, no vowels, and no punctuation; it also had a language the people didn’t speak and was a book to be read aloud (not quietly) making the felt experience of the book as something utterly mysterious, which only the priests could handle. The movement from Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic to Latin reached its height as the vernacular moved from Latin into Italian, Spanish, and French. Only as the work became accessible by printing, by vernacular, by word spaces, vowels, punctuation did we discover the internal contradictions created by copyists. Luther never guessed that his movement would one day culminate in undermining Luther.

Mental Illness and Sam Harris

2013-05-19T14:07:49+00:00

I’ve been thinking. Sam Harris is a very intelligent person - not only because he is very arrogant to the point of being deluded, but because he says things we all agree with in our secular western world.

Since Sam is so bright and wonderfully educated, I wonder how he will deal with the problem of unnatural states of being, although he is not a philosopher.

A state of being causing suffering is not identical to a mental illness. An illness is a bodily disorder - a state of being that ought not be.
However, to say that something physical ought to be different than it already is is to say that it was designed by a mind with intentions of it being a certain way.

(1) Imagine the following scenario: you are programming a computer software that is designed to calculate if two rectangular objects are colliding eachother. The software, after you have compiled it, ceases to function as you have intended of it to be.
In this example, the software is bugged (“ill”), because it has ceased to be as you have intended of it to be with your skills in software engineering.

(2) Now imagine the following scenario: you have a piece of software that was developed by the necessity of the preceding events. There have been no intentions of this software being produced to do anything, but it just so happens to be able to calculate when the two rectangular objects are in collision through simple techniques.

Does the software in the second example ever cease to function as it should? - no, because there is no should in being.
A thing can only be said having to be differently than it already is, if it was designed with another purpose than of that it already is.

Thus, we may conclude as follows:
1. The existence of mental illnesses (not suffering) is incompatible with mere naturalism (“atheism”).
2. Mental illnesses do exist,
3. therefore, naturalism is false.

Keep the following things in mind before evaluating this argument:
1. Psychosis and the like are real things, but if my argument is correct then there cannot be anything wrong with these things.
2. Suffering is real, but an illness is irrelevant to suffering. Many schizophrenics do not suffer as we’d like to think of them, yet our medical professions conclude that they are ‘wrong’ in how they are by our current scientific doctrines.
3. I am not concluding Christianity, and I consider myself a naturalist who denies the existence of any illnesses per the definition I provided, which is also the universal definition that laymen and scholars use.
4. Mental illness is irrelevant to morality. Being psychotic may be morally wrong, but that has no relevance to this topic.
5. I am not arguing against the existence of rationality on atheism, although I do support this sort of reasoning.

Free Will

2013-05-15T02:58:33+00:00

If there is no such thing as free will, why do we punish people for committing crimes? Do we not expect people to use their free will to refrain from criminal activity? Why does Sam write books to change people’s minds if they don’t have the free will to change their
minds? Thanks for your responses.

I am now a Jr Member!

2013-05-12T03:57:12+00:00

I am now a Jr Member and am very happy.

charwiz

Historical Jesus

2013-05-11T02:05:51+00:00

Jesus the Jewish Rabi that lived around the 1st of the century, who was crucified by the romans. Did he historically exist? After doing the research, I was shocked to find out as to not only the limited amount of writings, but how far they turn up after the event. The earliest known writings that can be found, are dated 40 years after Jesus death. To add poison to the wound, the only non-Christian historian that most biblical scholars can agree on is Josephus, a Jewish writer that wrote about the history of the Jews. Josephus mentions Jesus twice in his writings one debated and the other known to be….(I forgot the biblical scholar word for it, not forged but added too or changed). The reason why they know it was tampered with, is because it does not match up to what a Jewish Rabi would say about someone. In other words no Jewish Rabi would ever claim that someone was God, or the messiah. Who ever attempted to change that was a fool, because if he would of left it alone would of done more to prove that Jesus actually existed, and would of went a lot farther for his cause. That’s Karma for you. However, somewhere else Josephus gives reference to James brother Jesus and I believe that somewhere he even makes mention to John the Baptist. There are a lot of other writings that mention Jesus, however biblical scholars destroy them for one reason or another and I DO NOT have time to go through them all. I, in the end, believe that a man named Jesus did exist. But this does nothing to prove Christianity. In fact, I believe if Jesus the Jewish Rabi, were to somehow come back to life, he would be horrified as to how the Christians not only what they did in his name, but they claimed him to be GOD!
A good reference for Biblical scholarship for the Atheist would be Bart Ehrman, I watched a lot of his interviews and debates on YouTube…a must see. And I will be buying his books.

charwiz

Endangered Species

2013-05-10T03:44:04+00:00

Religion without reason is an endangered species. It’s only a matter of time. The more people learn through science, the more educated people become, is directly proportional to the confusion non reasoning people have. So in there confusion and as a last resort, they go to the internet, that place where religions go to die. There final resting place. They go to the internet to search frantically for any info on their Religious beliefs, for any way possible that they can equate their lack of reason with their religious views. There they find the apologist lacking, and their unreasonable views… unbecoming. But hope is on the horison. Because eventualy they finally, open their eyes to Reason.

Charwiz