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does anyone else intend to vote for Romney/Ryan?
Posted: 21 August 2012 04:24 AM   [ Ignore ]  
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This may make me something of a loner in this crowd, but I actually intend to vote for Romney this year.  His religious conservatism (to the extent that it is even genuine, which I doubt) and that of his running mate doesn’t really scare me, because the religious principles to which they pay lip service have essentially zero chance of becoming law.  Abortions will never be outlawed, and while I disagree with the Republican stance on abortion, I don’t see it as a threat.

Fiscally, Romney/Ryan fall much closer to my own views than Obama.  As much as I disagree with religious conservatives, I refuse to be a single-issue voter.

Anyone else with me, or am I the black sheep?

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Posted: 21 August 2012 09:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]  
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For me, it’s a very tough choice simply because it’s not much of a choice.  There is an interesting thread on the forum here about voting for an atheist candidate, if one existed, that is somewhat related to the same type of choice involved here.  Obama is a failure by any objective measure.  You can point to some instances of his ‘success’ in foreign affairs but its all based on a horrible, immoral, self-sacrificial foreign policy started decades ago by previous administrations.  Romney/Ryan carry the horrible baggage of religion, faith and the freak special interest groups that go along with that.  I also find Obama too Christian and willing to apply that grim philosophy to all aspects of an ever growing, out of control government.  I definitely want less government, less laws (and the repeal of the majority of standing subjective and unlawful laws).  I want to end the empowerment of politicians and police.  I hate to throw a vote away but Gary Johnson is the only candidate I can agree with on most issues.  He has also vowed to never invoke the word ‘god’ if elected.  I often think things have to get much worse before they will get better.

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Posted: 21 August 2012 08:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]  
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The Wrath - 21 August 2012 04:24 AM

This may make me something of a loner in this crowd, but I actually intend to vote for Romney this year.  His religious conservatism (to the extent that it is even genuine, which I doubt) and that of his running mate doesn’t really scare me, because the religious principles to which they pay lip service have essentially zero chance of becoming law.  Abortions will never be outlawed, and while I disagree with the Republican stance on abortion, I don’t see it as a threat.

Fiscally, Romney/Ryan fall much closer to my own views than Obama.  As much as I disagree with religious conservatives, I refuse to be a single-issue voter.

Anyone else with me, or am I the black sheep?

Which is harder to believe?:
Barack Obama is smart enough to run the country or
Jesus Christ will return in your lifetime.
I find then equally plausible.

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Posted: 31 August 2012 12:45 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]  
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The Wrath - 21 August 2012 04:24 AM

Anyone else with me, or am I the black sheep?

Freedom of thought and conscience is one of America’s greatest gifts to its people.  Don’t let anyone tell you how to vote, and don’t be apologetic about your vote as long as you feel it is done in the best interests of the country as a whole and not in the “what have you done for me lately” narcissism so popular these days.


That said, I think you’re whacked to vote Republican after what they did to the public debt and fanned the flames of division of Americans during the Bush years.  The main complaint of the Republicans this election is that the Democrats didn’t clean up the atrocious mess left by the Republicans fast enough.  I would also like to invoke the pablum offered by the Republicans in the 2004 election, “Stay the course.”


The sad part about Romney is that he will deny as governor of Massachusetts supporting abortion and implementing a Republican party supported successful public health care program that the Democrats used as a template for the impending national system and still get close to half the total votes cast in November.  Ted Kennedy’s zinger in his senate race with Romney in 1994 is still true today, “I am pro-choice.  My opponent is multiple choice.”


I think the Republicans are mailing this election in and waiting for 2016 to put up a real fight.

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Posted: 31 August 2012 03:53 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]  
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I don’t understand how anyone could vote for the Republicans unless you are part of the financial elite. Otherwise, you’d be voting against your interests. This applies also to voting for the Democrats, however there does seem to be a little more breathing room with them. To be honest, politics in America is a con because corporate power has hijacked it from the people. This does not take a genius to realise. A real democracy has more than two major parties and a broad range of representatives, and it certainly does not allow corporations to donate money to any party or politician.

Health care is very expensive in the US because the health insurance companies want to maintain market dominance - profits would go down if half their customers could have access to Universal health care like other first world countries.

Enough of you honestly believe the more guns the safer society is when in fact the data points in the other direction. Any mention of ‘gun control’ is sure to get a knee-jerk response “Taking my semi-automatic rifle away is taking away my rights!” all thanks to the very influential lobby group, the NRA, with their fear-mongering propaganda. Some of you might say “It’s in the Constitution, the right to bear arms”, but please don’t tell me your founding fathers intended greedy corporations will be able to exploit that right to tear down any mention of sensible gun control/regulations in order to maximise profits.

There seems to be a stigma towards poor people “Oh it’s their fault, they are lazy” and also generally towards welfare. I believe the typical response I am talking about was witnessed on this very site towards Sam himself when he argued for a fairer distribution of wealth. This is a result of bourgeois propaganda coming from both major parties since they are largely controlled by corporate power. The concept of individualism is turned into some crude, social-Darwinist nonsense. This mentality also has its roots in the Calvinist brand of Christianity.

Many of your prisons are private-owned, therefore driven for profit explaining why funding goes into building prisons (and not welfare) and part reason (the other reason is due to the biblical belief in ‘free will’)  why there is such an emphasis on ‘law and order’ and retribution as opposed to reform and rehabilitation. This does nothing but continue the cycle of poverty-related issues and increases unnecessary suffering for the community as a whole.

These are a few examples which illustrate how corporate power has hijacked democracy from its people and it is sad that most don’t even realise it. 

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Posted: 31 August 2012 07:14 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]  
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All this drivel is just another form of mystic dogmatism.  Observe reality.  Forget both parties.  They steaming, corrupt junk piles of in-bred mysticism and stone age philosophy.  To pretend that one party is so much superior to the other is sad.

.

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Posted: 01 September 2012 01:24 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]  
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mormovies - 31 August 2012 07:14 AM

All this drivel is just another form of mystic dogmatism.  Observe reality.  Forget both parties.  They steaming, corrupt junk piles of in-bred mysticism and stone age philosophy.  To pretend that one party is so much superior to the other is sad.

.

 

To pretend that there is a pretender is far more sad.

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Posted: 01 September 2012 02:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]  
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Intelligent response!  No, it’s much, much sadder to think that there are the good guys vs. the bad guys in our choice for president.  It’s usually a choice between the lesser evil and it’s not always obvious unless you stick to dogma then it’s suddenly really simple.

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Posted: 01 September 2012 02:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]  
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mormovies - 01 September 2012 02:08 PM

Intelligent response!  No, it’s much, much sadder to think that there are the good guys vs. the bad guys in our choice for president.  It’s usually a choice between the lesser evil and it’s not always obvious unless you stick to dogma then it’s suddenly really simple.

 

Life is better when your dogma runs away.

grin

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Posted: 01 September 2012 02:27 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]  
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Curb your dogma.

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Posted: 01 September 2012 02:33 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]  
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mormovies - 01 September 2012 02:27 PM

Curb your dogma.


“Clean up your dogma’s mess.”

LOL

 

 

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Posted: 14 September 2012 08:26 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]  
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The Wrath - 21 August 2012 04:24 AM

This may make me something of a loner in this crowd, but I actually intend to vote for Romney this year.

I can’t say much for this community, but in terms of the Atheists I know personally, almost all of us are independent voters.

The Wrath - 21 August 2012 04:24 AM

His religious conservatism (to the extent that it is even genuine, which I doubt) and that of his running mate doesn’t really scare me, because the religious principles to which they pay lip service have essentially zero chance of becoming law.  Abortions will never be outlawed, and while I disagree with the Republican stance on abortion, I don’t see it as a threat.

I have to agree that I don’t see much threat from Romney’s Mormonism and I’m just as much an anti-theist as the late Hitch. Unfortunately I think Ryan is a much more troubling figure in that regard. You’re right to doubt the premise that even a fully republican congress and executive could ban abortion (for more than 4 years at least), but the ‘moral majority’ has proven troublesome on more than just the choice v. life front.

The Wrath - 21 August 2012 04:24 AM

Fiscally, Romney/Ryan fall much closer to my own views than Obama.  As much as I disagree with religious conservatives, I refuse to be a single-issue voter.

If religion alone is your issue, let’s be honest, neither party is favorable. Having said that, I am leaning dem this year simply because I have yet to see the Romney/Ryan ticket articulate their economic or foreign policy in a meaningful way. It’s patently obvious that congress has been stonewalling (as is their prerogative) the dem agenda, so I don’t think their current line of attack is entirely valid. I disagreed with TARP, the auto bailouts, and many other policies implemented by the Dems, but the republicans were on-board with both of those things at the time too.

Basically, if they want my vote the Reps are going to need to drop the birther shtick and sell me on an actual economic policy that I can get behind. Given the choice between two equally vacuous platforms on the matter, i’ll have to vote for the incumbent by virtue of aforementioned social issues.

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Posted: 16 September 2012 11:06 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]  
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Ebson Floze - 14 September 2012 08:26 PM
The Wrath - 21 August 2012 04:24 AM

This may make me something of a loner in this crowd, but I actually intend to vote for Romney this year.

I can’t say much for this community, but in terms of the Atheists I know personally, almost all of us are independent voters.

The Wrath - 21 August 2012 04:24 AM

His religious conservatism (to the extent that it is even genuine, which I doubt) and that of his running mate doesn’t really scare me, because the religious principles to which they pay lip service have essentially zero chance of becoming law.  Abortions will never be outlawed, and while I disagree with the Republican stance on abortion, I don’t see it as a threat.

I have to agree that I don’t see much threat from Romney’s Mormonism and I’m just as much an anti-theist as the late Hitch. Unfortunately I think Ryan is a much more troubling figure in that regard. You’re right to doubt the premise that even a fully republican congress and executive could ban abortion (for more than 4 years at least), but the ‘moral majority’ has proven troublesome on more than just the choice v. life front.

The Wrath - 21 August 2012 04:24 AM

Fiscally, Romney/Ryan fall much closer to my own views than Obama.  As much as I disagree with religious conservatives, I refuse to be a single-issue voter.

If religion alone is your issue, let’s be honest, neither party is favorable. Having said that, I am leaning dem this year simply because I have yet to see the Romney/Ryan ticket articulate their economic or foreign policy in a meaningful way. It’s patently obvious that congress has been stonewalling (as is their prerogative) the dem agenda, so I don’t think their current line of attack is entirely valid. I disagreed with TARP, the auto bailouts, and many other policies implemented by the Dems, but the republicans were on-board with both of those things at the time too.

Basically, if they want my vote the Reps are going to need to drop the birther shtick and sell me on an actual economic policy that I can get behind. Given the choice between two equally vacuous platforms on the matter, i’ll have to vote for the incumbent by virtue of aforementioned social issues.

 

I always vote for the person who has created a world view that coincides closest with my own.
I tend to like people who think the way I do about things and dislike those who don’t.
Of course I assume that I have a pretty good understanding of the way things work…....you know foreign policy and economics….stuff like that.
There are a few things that I’m not sure about but I think I like someone who is sure about those kind of things.
Basically I guess I vote based on how I think whoever is running will help to improve my own life.
I have worked very hard and would like to keep as much money as I can to spend on things I like.
I like fancy cars and fancy watches….......well….....just about anything fancy.
So I guess I’m not going to vote for Obama.

 

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Posted: 16 September 2012 11:34 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]  
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toombaru - 16 September 2012 11:06 AM

I always vote for the person who has created a world view that coincides closest with my own.

That’s sensible.  What I don’t like are negative campaigns to demonize the other guy, even though they are effective.

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Posted: 16 September 2012 12:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]  
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Skipshot - 16 September 2012 11:34 AM
toombaru - 16 September 2012 11:06 AM

I always vote for the person who has created a world view that coincides closest with my own.

That’s sensible.  What I don’t like are negative campaigns to demonize the other guy, even though they are effective.


I too would like the reprogram human behavior.
Perhaps we could selectively breed children that were less competitive.

 

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Posted: 17 September 2012 01:45 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]  
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toombaru - 16 September 2012 11:06 AM

I always vote for the person who has created a world view that coincides closest with my own.
I tend to like people who think the way I do about things and dislike those who don’t.
Of course I assume that I have a pretty good understanding of the way things work…....you know foreign policy and economics….stuff like that.
There are a few things that I’m not sure about but I think I like someone who is sure about those kind of things.
Basically I guess I vote based on how I think whoever is running will help to improve my own life.
I have worked very hard and would like to keep as much money as I can to spend on things I like.
I like fancy cars and fancy watches….......well….....just about anything fancy.
So I guess I’m not going to vote for Obama.


Sounds like you know more about the Romney plan than I do. Can you share something with me about his economic policy? Because all I have seen to date really falls short of a serious analysis. I don’t want posturing from Ryan about spending bills that got bipartisan support. I want to see numbers and serious articulation about what should be cut. It is entirely possible that I’ve missed a memo, but (much to my chagrin as a fiscal conservative) the Dems seem to have bamboozled Romney into a completely reactive campaign.

 

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