Sam Harris.org Reader Forum

On Lying

2013-04-22T21:53:13Z

I really enjoyed this book, I wish there was more of it. He’s preaching to the choir with me on atheism. I wish there was more here said about being the kind of person who no one needs to lie too. I’m sure some of you get the idea of who I am talking about. The world is full of individuals who are so neurotic that maintaining a truthful relationship with them is a day to day challenge. Leaving aside brutal dictators or cult leaders, how about being a neurotic parent who ends up encouraging a child’s dishonesty because they cannot manage their anger when the child maintains the truth. It seems to be of equal importance, especially to a parent.

On Lying - “Passing” as a form of evasion

2013-04-22T16:42:36Z

Both in the blog post “The Straight Path” and in On Lying, I found one topic missing that can make a fascinating addition to this discussion, that of passing. The experience of African-Americans passing for Caucasian, Gays passing for straight, Jews passing for gentile etc., all speak to similar needs and consequences from social death to actual physical death, depending on the time and place. Unlike many of the thought experiments in “The Straight Path” involving death that “shrink the time horizon” to days, weeks, or months, passing expands the time horizon over years and lifetimes. The ethics of passing may also exist on a continuum from pathological to prudential. I wonder how we might identify the harms and benefits and evaluate the differences - both in terms of the passer and the people deceived.

Discussion regarding book Atheist Yoga

2013-04-09T09:41:20Z

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the new book “The Bonobo and the Atheist” by primatologist Frans de Waal

2013-04-08T16:31:53Z

I have not yet read this book, but I listened to an interview the author gave on Science Friday. (here: http://www.sciencefriday.com/segment/04/05/2013/-searching-for-the-roots-of-right-and-wrong.html ). In the interview, he specifically call out Sam and Dawkins as being off the rails. I think that de Waal fails to grasp the nuances of Sam’s position (a common thing for Sam), but I think this needs to be answered as de Waal has legitimacy.

Is this true ??

2013-01-27T19:36:13Z

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2012/09/25/Islamic-States-Free-Speech-Code

A new Indian film on global terrorism with focus on Afghanistan attracts the ire of Muslim groups in India !

2013-01-23T02:23:36Z

A new Indian film centred on terrorism, that appears to have a plotline inspired by the John Wells character from Alex Berenson’s novels and touted as a Mission Impossible type of spy thriller is receiving flak from certain religious groups even before it is released!

http://www.thehindu.com/arts/cinema/screening-of-kamals-film-will-affect-social-harmony-muslim-groups/article4332726.ece

India’s first truly global film is releasing coming weekend - unlike most bollywood nonsense, this is expected to be much better quality on a bigger canvas

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdVHRDPlbGk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsSaxUB70cU&list=UU1ptZDKTKzbDmVldvXNzS5Q&index=24

Films like ‘apocalypse now’, ‘platoon’ etc were direct critical of war culture as well as indirectly critical of american foreign policy - neither the american govt nor any political party opposed them; ‘passion of the christ’ under the baton of fundamentalist crackpot Mel Gibson was anti-semitic to the core - no Jewish group protested against it; ‘history of the world’ parodied several historical figures including Moses et al - again noone protested; ‘the guru’ made fun of the Hindu ‘guru’ concept - noone protested.

but when a danish cartoon comes out depicting one certain religious head, the person who drew the cartoon and 10s of others bearing the same name as the cartoon creator, are under threat in Europe! and when a badly made movie on a certain religion comes out last year, the entire middle-east erupts in violence! when a certain Govind Nihalini (Indian film-maker) made a realistic ‘Tamas’ in the 1980s about the violence centred around India-Pakistan partition, the then ruling party in India hastily took it off the small screen for fear of losing the minority vote!

and now a mainstream Indian film allegedly hurting the sentiments of some people is receiving flak !

Willam Dalrymple: ‘I don’t believe Muslims are a problem and Islam a threat’

2013-01-17T04:39:53Z

http://www.rediff.com/news/slide-show/slide-show-1-i-dont-believe-muslims-are-problem-and-islam-a-threat/20130116.htm

according to Willam Dalrymple: ‘I don’t believe Muslims are a problem and Islam a threat’

would appreciate a rebuttal from Mr.Sam Harris on this!

the above interview comes right after the mutilation of Indian soldiers by the Pakistani army .

Nearing the end of “Free Will”

2012-12-18T16:39:13Z

Feeling a little self-conscious about my “deeply affected” post. There I was, having read the violent crime beginning of the book with news from Sandy Hook Elementary School on my mind.

I’m now nearing the end of the book and have a few thoughts. And I must say, while somewhat satisfied that it’s led me to think through my own concept of free will, I’m fairly disappointed, perhaps feeling a little taken for what I spent on the e-edition. The book, which I consider to be more appropriately called an essay, would have seemed okay as what Amazon calls a “Kindle Single” which would have been well-priced at $.99 to $1.99.

I can appreciate that Sam Harris has his background in neuroscience and all, and can bring a certain perspective to the concept of free will, but to treat his own search for a working definition as definitive in a wider environment, is a bit of a stretch.

I wish the internet, and Amazon, and this approach to marketing would have been available when I first graduated college back in the mid seventies and I might have taken a path to riches by publishing some reasonably well though out musings. Oh well. As I recollect, even Mark Twain died in debt, or so the story came to me, true or false.

In a different vein, I’m entertaining two thoughts about “Free Will”: 1) that our range of options may be obviously limited, almost like being on an elastic leash, held in the hand or our circumstances, moving forward through time with us, and 2) an incomplete idea that what’s really going on is some crucial fulcrum of time, where an unknown number of possibilities lie in the future become suddenly a fixed certainty of our past, although dependent even then on the verities of our memory and outer world record. The future possibilities increase in number with a further projection, and decrease with nearness to the present.

There’s also the sense with certain words that a thesaurus comes into play, rather than the authentic utilization of a versatile vocabulary employed to most clearly share some worthy content with the widest audience. To make something sound more substantive or authoritative than it really is borders on a boastful ego at play. It can even be disrespectful.

And finally, the metaphor of the puppet necessitates the hand of a puppet master, which to me, opens a door to ironically inviting the presence of a higher power, however dressed in neuroscience. This would turn the essay from an exploration of free will to a definition of one person’s higher power. It may even draw a sketch of the face of God. Funny.

I’m looking forward to sneaking a read of my daughter’s copy of “The End of Faith.” Maybe it’ll shake me out of my obvious misunderstanding and lack of appreciation, or the as yet unread conclusion will do it for me.

New and Deeply Affected re: Free Will and Violence

2012-12-16T20:58:02Z

Just a couple of days ago, my 25 year old daughter asked me to buy her Sam’s The End of Faith. Since then, I’ve spent several hours on the site, reading the blogs, joining the forum, and following my interest, fascinated with a hope that rationality can win over the sad, the absurd, the expedient, the selfish, the ignorant, and the misinformed and mistaken….and the violent.

Then another tragedy steps in. Children and their teachers, along with their killer, dead at Sandy Hook Elementary School.

I spent over 20 years as a secondary public school teacher trying my damnedest to do a good and qualitatively sound job. Sometimes to better and others to painfully lesser effect. I believed in the opportunity to educate our children in ways that would lead them, at least it appears to me today, to their becoming the sorts of adults who would be readers of books like those written and suggested by Mr. Harris and those whose work may be referred to or featured on the site. It was not an easy thing to do in the eastern Washington state high schools where I worked. It may even have led directly to the conflict with an administrator that ended my career painfully and disturbingly just over 10 years ago. I don’t believe the present climate in education and reform would have made my job any easier, my intentions any more promising.

Another thing I tried to do was involve and value the presence and person of every student in the classroom. If it was time for discussion, I purposely would ask each and every student if he or she wished to say anything. Sometimes I think it may be the simplest of acts that can make the difference. I’m reaching, wondering if there is anything that can be done other than to simply brace for the next tragedy.

I’ve bled inwardly and outwardly ever since I left teaching, at times better and others less able to move beyond it. And here today, in the background, news from an elementary school in Connecticut continues.

I’m reading Free Will in these circumstances. And it starts out with an example of another, horrifically violent crime.

I’m hoping for others on this site, perhaps even Sam and those closest to him and this work, as they come to grips with such an overwhelming, and what seems to me to be pertinent, current event, to join in with some thoughts.

I’ve not watched a Meet the Press in ages until today. I think they did pretty well, considering. Yet I fear there will not be substantial progress.

I’m not confident I would have the ability to come to terms, to healthy resolution, in my somewhat isolated home, family, and community without the help of others I think might be the sorts of folks who are members of this forum.

I would hope, if this goes anywhere, that those who respond would do so with some restraint and at the same time depth. I hope I can practice what I preach, and would enjoy coming back to share my progress with the book, which I haven’t but begun, and my progress toward a coalescing sense that our world can grow safer and healthier.

I can’t bring any of them back, nor give any comfort to so many grieving family and friends. I can only hope to contribute toward a sort of meaningfulness that would come from anything helpful in preventing a repeat.

Robert E Giberson
Rural Winlock, Washington

“God will steer if we row the boat”

2012-11-17T15:54:13Z

Actually not any particular “God”, but something along the lines of “A higher power of our own understanding. ” (Or misunderstanding)

I believe Sam Harris new book on “Free Will” has the potential to bring Agnostics like myself closer to an understanding of “How it works”.

Being a long time member of a 12 step program (AA), I have been invoved with 1,000s of discussions about the AA 3rd and 11th steps ....

“Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.” and… “Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God, as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.”

I have participated in thousands of meetings,listening to people describe, the admittedly self contradictary process, of how they regain control of their lives through the practice of these steps. Although I don’t know how it works or the exact nature (or even approximate nature) of the higher power that is involved, I have absolutely no doubt that doing so, can somehow work more transformative miracles than are described in any “Holy Book” from any religion.

Somehow, Sams’ theory of “Self Will” fits into this process. I have to think and “pray” about it more, but I believe it may hold the key to many answers concerning the nature of reality and “How it works”.

I would love to have Sam put his creative prowess to work on this area and would be glad to assist from the AA side in any small way that might be helpful.