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something may be intervening
Posted: 03 November 2008 12:06 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]  
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stillasking - 27 June 2008 09:26 PM

The entity I refered to in my original post need not be “supernatural”.  I agree that people have through out history mistakingly atributed to the supernatural, “God” or “Gods” everything they didn’t understand.  I do think that there is evidence that at one time a superior intelligence was present on this planet (the pyramids, evidence of anti-gravity use, ancient drawings in caves, Stonehenge, etc.)  Yes I do read Science Fiction and maybe I do let my imagination get carried away.  I don’t read bad Science Fiction.  The authors I read are of the ilk of Asimov, Clarke, Sturgeon and Leiber.

Believing that there is a force that intervenes,  a force set in place by a superior inteligence to keep the human race from being totally destroyed may be something of a stretch.  But how else do we explain situations where 2 year olds of average intelligence have saved an unconscious parents life by calling 911?  There a multitude of other reports of incidents where information on how to deal with a situation that the reporter had no training or understanding of suddenly became available to them allowing them to solve a life threatening problem.

It may be Science Fiction but do you believe we are alone in the Universe?

Probably not in terms of other life forms out there, though I see no evidence of intelligent life forms or some obvious type of a deity or omnipresent being, or creator.  I suppose there could be, but what’s the use in talking about it without any objective evidence?  That’s probably how religion got started.

Pyramids and Stonehenge and drawings on caves don’t compel me to believe anything other than that there were some motivated creative people way back when, many, if not most, of whom were likely slaves.

I haven’t ruled everything out, though.  I’m not going to claim to know all the answers about everything, having only seen a tiny fraction of the universe from a very limited perspective.

One thing that makes me wonder if there might be some type of ‘universal spirit’, or God if you want to call it that, is the chill I get up my spine every once in awhile when at the same time I am feeling inspired just from thinking about something.  I see no evolutionary reason for this.  I understand why animals and some people get a chill up their spine in situations of danger, buy why would I get it when I am feeling inspired?

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Posted: 03 November 2008 07:21 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]  
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Immediate Suppression - 03 November 2008 05:06 AM

One thing that makes me wonder if there might be some type of ‘universal spirit’, or God if you want to call it that, is the chill I get up my spine every once in awhile when at the same time I am feeling inspired just from thinking about something.  I see no evolutionary reason for this.  I understand why animals and some people get a chill up their spine in situations of danger, buy why would I get it when I am feeling inspired?

This could merely be a consequence of the evolved intelligence which has helped our species to survive and propagate despite the fact that we are physically inferior to much of our prey and our predators. It could be the same chemical and physiologic response that you get from fear. Your cortex’s ability to determine that there is no danger is a fraction of a second slower than the autonomic, physiologic response.

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Posted: 03 November 2008 11:54 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]  
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Those are valid points, Jefe and Beam me up, but do they eliminate the possibility that the chill up my spine might be related to something else we don’t know about?

Maybe I shouldn’t have described it as a ‘universal spirit’ or God, maybe I just should have described it as ‘something.’  I certainly do not see any evidence of a divine influence.

Sometimes when I get the chill up my spine, it feels like an enlightened moment of spiritual bliss, if there ever was one.  I’m not crediting it to anything in particular, just speculating if it might be related to ‘something intervening.’ 

I’m sort of breaking my own rules here, because I previously asked someone what is the point in talking about something you can’t prove?  I guess its just sort of fun, especially on the internet in a mostly atheist forum under an anonymous identity.

Where is Salt Creek to keep me in line, deriding me with insults about a wad of gum, a shiny coin, or the prize at the bottom of the crackerjack box?

[ Edited: 03 November 2008 11:59 AM by Immediate Suppression]
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Posted: 03 November 2008 12:00 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]  
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Ah ... the old “prove it’s not true” bugbear throws down on reason, yet again ...

rolleyes

Byron

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Posted: 03 November 2008 12:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]  
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And yet again, no conclusive scientific explanation for the chill up my spine I feel sometimes during moments of inspiration.

rolleyes

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[ Edited: 03 November 2008 12:39 PM by Immediate Suppression]
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Posted: 03 November 2008 02:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]  
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Jefe - 03 November 2008 05:45 PM
Immediate Suppression - 03 November 2008 05:36 PM

And yet again, no conclusive scientific explanation for the chill up my spine I feel sometimes during moments of inspiration.

:roll:

Immediate

Ok.  the onus is on you to do some research, simply because you’re the one experienceing this “chill”.
Do you only feel it when you’re feeling particularly inspired, or does it occur at other times?

Start there.

Good questions.  I’ve felt it when I have been thinking about something I’ve never realized before, or something creative, primarily.  I have also felt it when just thinking about pleasant scenarios, or positive thoughts.  I’ve never felt it when I am fearful, angry, or stressed.

The research I have done leads to no conclusive explanations for it, though there are explanations as to why it happens to animals and even other humans in times of “fight or flight.”

It’s one of the few things that leads me to believe in the possibility of “something” intervening with humans.  If someone could give me a definitive, conclusive scientific explanation, my opinions about the possibility of something intervening would be diminished. 

Though I would still be aware of the fact that none of us can claim to know all the answers about everything, having only seen a tiny fraction of the universe from a very limited perspective.  And we also still have no clue whether there may be something outside of the expanding edges of the universe.

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Posted: 03 November 2008 02:53 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]  
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Immediate Suppression - 03 November 2008 04:54 PM

Where is Salt Creek to keep me in line, deriding me with insults about a wad of gum, a shiny coin, or the prize at the bottom of the crackerjack box?

As if that would validate your idiocy in some way.

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Posted: 03 November 2008 07:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]  
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stillasking - 21 June 2008 05:04 PM

Although I don’t believe that an all knowing, all powerfull “God” is involved in the day to day lives of human beings (what incredible ego must accompany that belief), I do see the possiblility that some kind of energy does at times intervene in people’s lives.  That energy is not all knowing or all powerfull, hence the explanation for human suffering.

There’s no more evidence for such an energy than there is for a single god or many gods. So while all those may be possible, all are equally unlikely.

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Posted: 03 November 2008 07:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]  
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Immediate Suppression - 03 November 2008 05:36 PM

And yet again, no conclusive scientific explanation for the chill up my spine I feel sometimes during moments of inspiration.

rolleyes

Immediate

It is a simple, well known, physiologic response of the autonomic nervous system. I could cut and paste, but I’m busy numbing my cerebral cortex with yeast piss. A basic phsiology text should suffice. I am sure you can figure out why this physiologic response would naturally be tied to emotional responses without me spelling it out. I am not trying to be sarcastic. You asked the question.

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Posted: 03 November 2008 07:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]  
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stillasking - 21 June 2008 05:04 PM

I think again that ego has allowed us to believe that we are the only ones that are important on this planet and in this universe.

That’s actually the argument against theistic religion, which attaches a false sense of importance to humanity in terms of attention paid by gods to humanity. Whether or not gods exist or your energy force exists has nothing to do with the question of humanity’s importance in the universe.

stillasking - 21 June 2008 05:04 PM

I say this because I find that humans have a longing to connect with something bigger than their individual selves (religions, family groupings, gangs, societies, etc.)  People are never more content than when they feel this connection.

It’s likely that the longing may have purely biological causes. There’s no reason to make the leap of attributing the longing to some undetectable energy force.

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Posted: 04 November 2008 12:23 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]  
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Jefe - 03 November 2008 07:44 PM

Ok, then the next question is:

Do you know of anyone else who gets these feelings when in a similar mental state that you are?
What would be useful would be a double-blind study of a large sample group with controls to help weed out any bias in the answer.

This would help us narrow down whether it was a universal trait of humanity, or an individual symptom experienced by relatively few people.
From there, we could look at the evidence and determine if this is a common symptom in people who are experiencing creative thoughts, or simply your own personal experience.

I haven’t heard of anyone else who gets these types of feelings.  A study like that would be useful, but might still be inconclusive on a study based on such subjective evidence, which means there is still the possibility that….

something may be intervening

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Posted: 04 November 2008 01:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]  
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A chill up my spine. ‘Inspiration’ just by thinking about something.

Hmmmmm…...must be divine or otherworldly.

Surely the physics and chemistry within the human physiology could not account for this.

Remember the argument from incredulity. Whatever cannot be explained today…..must be metaphysical. We simply cannot wait for scientific explanations. We must attribute it to a universal spirit immediately. Today.

Fuckwittery at it’s finest alright.

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Posted: 04 November 2008 01:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]  
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Jefe - 04 November 2008 05:28 PM
Immediate Suppression - 04 November 2008 05:23 PM
Jefe - 03 November 2008 07:44 PM

Ok, then the next question is:

Do you know of anyone else who gets these feelings when in a similar mental state that you are?
What would be useful would be a double-blind study of a large sample group with controls to help weed out any bias in the answer.

This would help us narrow down whether it was a universal trait of humanity, or an individual symptom experienced by relatively few people.
From there, we could look at the evidence and determine if this is a common symptom in people who are experiencing creative thoughts, or simply your own personal experience.

I haven’t heard of anyone else who gets these types of feelings.  A study like that would be useful, but might still be inconclusive on a study based on such subjective evidence, which means there is still the possibility that….

something may be intervening

Or a well documented human propensity toward overactive agent detection may be resulting in your assumption of this possiblity, and assigning it an inflated probability, when a simple physiological explanation is out there waiting to be discovered.

I will acknowledge this is a possibility.

Another possibility is a paranormal explanation, i.e. no clear scientific explanation.

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Posted: 04 November 2008 01:27 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]  
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McCreason - 04 November 2008 06:04 PM

Hmmmmm…...must be divine or otherworldly.

That’s even funnier if you say with a Lugosian accent with Theremin sound effects.

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Posted: 05 November 2008 05:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]  
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Jefe - 04 November 2008 07:34 PM
Immediate Suppression - 04 November 2008 06:11 PM
Jefe - 04 November 2008 05:28 PM
Immediate Suppression - 04 November 2008 05:23 PM
Jefe - 03 November 2008 07:44 PM

Ok, then the next question is:

Do you know of anyone else who gets these feelings when in a similar mental state that you are?
What would be useful would be a double-blind study of a large sample group with controls to help weed out any bias in the answer.

This would help us narrow down whether it was a universal trait of humanity, or an individual symptom experienced by relatively few people.
From there, we could look at the evidence and determine if this is a common symptom in people who are experiencing creative thoughts, or simply your own personal experience.

I haven’t heard of anyone else who gets these types of feelings.  A study like that would be useful, but might still be inconclusive on a study based on such subjective evidence, which means there is still the possibility that….

something may be intervening

Or a well documented human propensity toward overactive agent detection may be resulting in your assumption of this possiblity, and assigning it an inflated probability, when a simple physiological explanation is out there waiting to be discovered.

I will acknowledge this is a possibility.

Another possibility is a paranormal explanation, i.e. no clear scientific explanation.

Without evidence, you’re just spitballing.

Without a clear scientific explanation, you are also spitballing in being critical of my openness to the possibility of something that is perhaps not even measurable with our current technology.

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