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CHRISTIANITY, ARROGANCE, AND MEGALOMANIA
Posted: 25 June 2009 01:14 PM   [ Ignore ]  
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arrogance n : a feeling or an impression of superiority manifestd in an overbearing manner or presumptuous claims -

megalomania n : 2: a delusional mental disorder that is marked by infantile feelings of personal omnipotence and grandeur -

“I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life.  No one comes to the Father except by me.”  - Jesus

In his book, ‘LETTER TO A CHRISTIAN NATION’, Sam Harris writes:

“One of the monumental ironies of religious discourse can be appreciated in the frequency with which people of faith praise themselves for their humility, while condemning scientists and other non-believers for their intellectual arrogance.  There is, in fact, no worldview more reprehensible in its arrogance than that of a religious believer: the creator of the universe takes an interest in me, approves of me, loves me, and will reward me after death; my current beliefs, drawn from scripture, will remain the best statement of the truth until the end of the world; everyone who disagrees with me will spend eternity in hell . . .  An average Christian, in an average church, listening to an average Sunday sermon has achieved a level of arrogance simply unimaginable in scientific discourse - and there have been some extraordinarily arrogant scientists.”

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“The simple fables of the religious of the world have come to seem like tales told to children.”  - Nobel Prize recipient - Francis Crick

“It is time we recognized the boundless narcissism and self-deceit of the saved.” - Sam Harris

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Posted: 26 June 2009 04:47 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]  
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Okay ... yeah.

I rarely re-read anything, but I think I need to break out Sam’s stuff again.

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“We say, ‘Love your brother…’ We don’t say it really, but… Well we don’t literally say it. We don’t really, literally mean it. No, we don’t believe it either, but… But that message should be clear.”—David St. Hubbins

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Posted: 27 June 2009 01:42 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]  
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unsmoked - 25 June 2009 05:14 PM

In his book, ‘LETTER TO A CHRISTIAN NATION’, Sam Harris writes:

“One of the monumental ironies of religious discourse can be appreciated in the frequency with which people of faith praise themselves for their humility, while condemning scientists and other non-believers for their intellectual arrogance.  There is, in fact, no worldview more reprehensible in its arrogance than that of a religious believer: the creator of the universe takes an interest in me, approves of me, loves me, and will reward me after death; my current beliefs, drawn from scripture, will remain the best statement of the truth until the end of the world; everyone who disagrees with me will spend eternity in hell . . .  An average Christian, in an average church, listening to an average Sunday sermon has achieved a level of arrogance simply unimaginable in scientific discourse - and there have been some extraordinarily arrogant scientists.”

 

The question isn’t who’s arrogant or not, it’s whether or not the Bible true.  If it is true… 
 
Humble people don’t “praise themselves for their humility”

We know “The creator of the universe takes an interest in, loves,  and will reward after death” because the Bible states as much, outright.


“My current beliefs, drawn from Scripture, will remain the best statement of the truth until the end of the world ” Not quite, with the record of Nature and of Scripture, one can reasonably arrive at truth. 


“everyone who disagrees with me will spend eternity in hell”, Straw man, everyone who will spend eternity in hell, will do so because he or she loved evil more than good.  Agreeing or not with me is irrelevant.


My reason for believing the Bible is that the empirical evidence supports it.  Please share your evidence of how the universe created itself out of nothing and just how 20,000 species of life spontaneously generated here on Earth?

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Posted: 27 June 2009 02:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]  
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EMFrimbo - 27 June 2009 05:42 PM

My reason for believing the Bible is that the empirical evidence supports it.  Please share your evidence of how the universe created itself out of nothing and just how 20,000 species of life spontaneously generated here on Earth?

You are right, God did it out of Himself.  How could nature make something out of itself?  Poo!  And it’s even more wonderful than you can imagine.  There are 350,000 separate species of beetles alone.  And for each of the millions of species of plants and animals . . . there are at least ten species of viruses.  God has asked the scientists to tell you those things, so that you don’t underestimate Him.  20,000 species?  There are more species than that in a rain puddle!

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“The simple fables of the religious of the world have come to seem like tales told to children.”  - Nobel Prize recipient - Francis Crick

“It is time we recognized the boundless narcissism and self-deceit of the saved.” - Sam Harris

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Posted: 27 June 2009 03:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]  
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unsmoked - 27 June 2009 06:17 PM
EMFrimbo - 27 June 2009 05:42 PM

My reason for believing the Bible is that the empirical evidence supports it.  Please share your evidence of how the universe created itself out of nothing and just how 20,000 species of life spontaneously generated here on Earth?

You are right, God did it out of Himself.  How could nature make something out of itself?  Poo!  And it’s even more wonderful than you can imagine.  There are 350,000 separate species of beetles alone.  And for each of the millions of species of plants and animals . . . there are at least ten species of viruses.  God has asked the scientists to tell you those things, so that you don’t underestimate Him.  20,000 species?  There are more species than that in a rain puddle!

I meant 20,000,000, but still, where’s your evidence that 20,000,000 species evolved from a single cell.  All in the span of 4 billion years?  Show me the reason.

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Posted: 27 June 2009 03:14 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]  
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EMFrimbo - 27 June 2009 05:42 PM

My reason for believing the Bible is that the empirical evidence supports it.


Sorry, but you’re not fooling anyone, not even yourself I expect. The story of Superman has far more empirical credibility than the tales of the Bible.

EMFrimbo - 27 June 2009 05:42 PM

Please share your evidence of how the universe created itself out of nothing and just how 20,000 species of life spontaneously generated here on Earth?


Explain how if there’s no evidence explaining abiogenesis or the ultimate origin of the cosmos, that somehow means your Bronze Age explanation is therefore true.

Where we don’t have an actual answer adults accept that we don’t have an answer and drive on from there. We don’t pretend that means whatever answer appeals, for whatever reason, must be true.

Byron

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“We say, ‘Love your brother…’ We don’t say it really, but… Well we don’t literally say it. We don’t really, literally mean it. No, we don’t believe it either, but… But that message should be clear.”—David St. Hubbins

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Posted: 28 June 2009 09:23 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]  
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Where we don’t have an actual answer adults accept that we don’t have an answer and drive on from there. We don’t pretend that means whatever answer appeals, for whatever reason, must be true.

True, You don’t have answers to these questions, but falsely claim you do.  For example “Harris writes

All complex life on Earth developed from simpler life-forms over billions of years.  ...  If you doubt that human beings evolved from prior species, you may as well doubt that the sun is a star.

If you doubt this statement, yer a moron.  So it must be easily shown to be true, then the obvious question is “what specific prior species did we branch from 50,000 years ago”?  Well there isn’t an answer for that either.  If one seeks answers to these questions, he is met with ridicule, not facts.  We “adults” never question anything, so shut up and blindly follow the rest of us.   

Explain how if there’s no evidence explaining abiogenesis or the ultimate origin of the cosmos, that somehow means your Bronze Age explanation is therefore true.

There are no answers to these questions therefore the bible is true.  This isn’t the case, I’m not arguing from ignorance.  I’m evaluating the evidence and drawing conclusions based theron.  A few brief points


1) The evidence of a beginning - The reigning cosmological model of today is the Biblical one. ( i.e. Space, Time, Matter, and Energy all had a finite beginning.)

2) The fine tuning of the universe - If the force of gravity were different by a slight amount life would be impossible.  This is true for over 400 different parameters.  The greatest of then is dark energy.  If a dime’s mass were added or subtracted from the mass index of the universe, life would be impossible.

3) The evidence of Life on Earth - Life’s beginning had to have help.  The Biblical view is supported by the evidence, i.e. God ceased his creative work on the seventh day.  This is why we don’t see new species being created.

4) Good and Evil - “the universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference” - Richard Dawkins
What reasonable person could believe this nonsense, if someone broke in Dawkin’s house and stole all his property, he probably wouldn’t be indifferent.

 

If I’m an “adult” and not a childish moron, I should beleive


1) Nothing created everything.


2) The universe is indeed finely tuned. Therefore, there must be a universe spawner out there somewhere, and we just happened to live in the one that had 400 parameters randomly positioned to allow a 50,000 year window for life to exist in. 


3) Life spontaneously generated from non-life. 


4) “the universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference”

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Posted: 28 June 2009 03:19 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]  
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Remains of Neanderthal man and his tools have been found in Europe, Northern Africa, and Western Asia.  He lived there for over 200,000 years.  The name of his species is Homo neanderthalensis.  What is the fundamentalist Christian explanation for God creating this species?  Do they say such hunter/gatherers, walking upright, carrying spears and clubs, making fires, wearing clothes, never existed?

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“It is time we recognized the boundless narcissism and self-deceit of the saved.” - Sam Harris

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Posted: 28 June 2009 03:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]  
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Mr. EMFrimbo:

I was an atheist all my life, shambling through this world in dark loneliness, knowing something was missing, seeing that something just didn’t make sense.

The steel rigidity of your logic, wrapped as it was in velvet prose, has shaken me out of this torpor, and I see the light!  Praise Jesus, this world has meaning, and is orderly, and if I play my cards right

EMFrimbo - 12 August 2007 08:16 AM

According to the Bible, this universe is a temporary structure.  God dwells in absolute perfection and gives us an open invitation to live with him forever in the perfect creation.

Halaleuya!

Mr. MFRimbo—

Now that I have seen the light, and been bathed in the cleansing blood of the lamb, and seen my sins (which were considerable) washed away, I too want to spread the good news.

So, Mr. MFRimbo, please send me $100,000.00 so I can start a small web page, and attract atheists to it, and peel back the darkness, and let the light shine in their souls.  Seriously, Mr. MFRimbo, you would not let the good folks who have been misled by demons and scientists anguish eternally in the lake of fire, just to save $100,000.00, would you? 

I look forward to your check.

Yours in christian community,


Teuchter.

p.s.  It seems your work is done here, so you won’t have to post anymore.

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Posted: 02 July 2009 03:07 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]  
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EMFrimbo - 28 June 2009 01:23 PM

Where we don’t have an actual answer adults accept that we don’t have an answer and drive on from there. We don’t pretend that means whatever answer appeals, for whatever reason, must be true.

True, You don’t have answers to these questions, but falsely claim you do.  For example “Harris writes

All complex life on Earth developed from simpler life-forms over billions of years.  ...  If you doubt that human beings evolved from prior species, you may as well doubt that the sun is a star.

If you doubt this statement, yer a moron.  So it must be easily shown to be true, then the obvious question is “what specific prior species did we branch from 50,000 years ago”?  Well there isn’t an answer for that either.  If one seeks answers to these questions, he is met with ridicule, not facts.  We “adults” never question anything, so shut up and blindly follow the rest of us.   

Explain how if there’s no evidence explaining abiogenesis or the ultimate origin of the cosmos, that somehow means your Bronze Age explanation is therefore true.

There are no answers to these questions therefore the bible is true.  This isn’t the case, I’m not arguing from ignorance.  I’m evaluating the evidence and drawing conclusions based theron.  A few brief points


1) The evidence of a beginning - The reigning cosmological model of today is the Biblical one. ( i.e. Space, Time, Matter, and Energy all had a finite beginning.)

2) The fine tuning of the universe - If the force of gravity were different by a slight amount life would be impossible.  This is true for over 400 different parameters.  The greatest of then is dark energy.  If a dime’s mass were added or subtracted from the mass index of the universe, life would be impossible.

3) The evidence of Life on Earth - Life’s beginning had to have help.  The Biblical view is supported by the evidence, i.e. God ceased his creative work on the seventh day.  This is why we don’t see new species being created.

4) Good and Evil - “the universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference” - Richard Dawkins
What reasonable person could believe this nonsense, if someone broke in Dawkin’s house and stole all his property, he probably wouldn’t be indifferent.

 

If I’m an “adult” and not a childish moron, I should beleive


1) Nothing created everything.


2) The universe is indeed finely tuned. Therefore, there must be a universe spawner out there somewhere, and we just happened to live in the one that had 400 parameters randomly positioned to allow a 50,000 year window for life to exist in. 


3) Life spontaneously generated from non-life. 


4) “the universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference”

Talk Origins dot Org.  Read it, come back. Have a nice day.

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Posted: 04 July 2009 06:32 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]  
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EMFrimbo - 28 June 2009 01:23 PM

Where we don’t have an actual answer adults accept that we don’t have an answer and drive on from there. We don’t pretend that means whatever answer appeals, for whatever reason, must be true.


True, You don’t have answers to these questions, but falsely claim you do.  For example “Harris writes

All complex life on Earth developed from simpler life-forms over billions of years.  ...  If you doubt that human beings evolved from prior species, you may as well doubt that the sun is a star.


If you doubt this statement, yer a moron.  So it must be easily shown to be true, then the obvious question is “what specific prior species did we branch from 50,000 years ago”?  Well there isn’t an answer for that either.  If one seeks answers to these questions, he is met with ridicule, not facts.  We “adults” never question anything, so shut up and blindly follow the rest of us.


It appears you’re selectively and dramatically diminishing your reading comprehension level.

EMFrimbo - 28 June 2009 01:23 PM

Explain how if there’s no evidence explaining abiogenesis or the ultimate origin of the cosmos, that somehow means your Bronze Age explanation is therefore true.


There are no answers to these questions therefore the bible is true.  This isn’t the case, I’m not arguing from ignorance.  I’m evaluating the evidence and drawing conclusions based theron.  A few brief points


1) The evidence of a beginning - The reigning cosmological model of today is the Biblical one. ( i.e. Space, Time, Matter, and Energy all had a finite beginning.)

2) The fine tuning of the universe - If the force of gravity were different by a slight amount life would be impossible.  This is true for over 400 different parameters.  The greatest of then is dark energy.  If a dime’s mass were added or subtracted from the mass index of the universe, life would be impossible.

3) The evidence of Life on Earth - Life’s beginning had to have help.  The Biblical view is supported by the evidence, i.e. God ceased his creative work on the seventh day.  This is why we don’t see new species being created.

4) Good and Evil - “the universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference” - Richard Dawkins
What reasonable person could believe this nonsense, if someone broke in Dawkin’s house and stole all his property, he probably wouldn’t be indifferent.


If I’m an “adult” and not a childish moron, I should beleive

1) Nothing created everything.

2) The universe is indeed finely tuned. Therefore, there must be a universe spawner out there somewhere, and we just happened to live in the one that had 400 parameters randomly positioned to allow a 50,000 year window for life to exist in. 

3) Life spontaneously generated from non-life. 

4) “the universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference”


Okay, so you’re not using an argument from ignorance, you’re using several (along with a heavy dose of “three-year-old jutting his chin out at reality in defiance”). Numbers don’t add up to positive values if those numbers are all zeros. Add some more arguments from ignorance (dress them up of course, so if you get with others who want to believe them badly enough you’ll at least have company in which you won’t need to feel embarrassed about it) and your epistemic progress will be at precisely the same level.

You’re clearly choosing to believe what you want (if it’s even possible to honestly choose to believe anything), and seeking excuses after the fact. Your bias is blatant, as you apply hyperskepticism to one side of the equation and hypercredulity to the other.

As I said, not an adult thinking pattern, as is normally the case with religion, only not usually so extreme (religious apologists pretty much all have to be that way, though, or they wouldn’t be religious apologists).

Byron

[ Edited: 04 July 2009 08:55 AM by SkepticX]
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Posted: 04 July 2009 08:37 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]  
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EMFrimbo - 28 June 2009 01:23 PM

I’m not arguing from ignorance.

You could have fooled me.

Apparently one can not enjoy a well-deserved break from this forum without a new batch of rank idiots infesting this virginal realm with their febrile ululations.


Petulant little cocksuckers like you,EMFrimjob,(btw,what does EMF stand for? Echolalial Mother Fucker?)who babble on about how our universe is designed for life are invited to come to my Chicago-based hovel, around February. While visiting I will send you out, sans winter coat, on a brief errand that shall leave you exposed, for no longer than an hour, to our brisk winter weather.
Should you survive this exercise, which I sincerely hope you do not, then, perhaps, you can remind us again how the good Lord has made our Universe with us farting around in it in mind.
This test of your, um , ‘theory’ is equally convincing when performed in any of our globe’s fine and oh,so hospitable deserts.

But perhaps I should, for the sake of clarity, abandon common courtesy and end my circumlocutory ways and tell you what I really think of you, Rimjob.

Shall I?

You are a solipsistic egomaniac, a raving lunatic, a self-indulgent freak-show. You are intellectually lazy and your morals are shallow and repugnant.


But worst of all, you are a self-righteous, humorless cunt and that is an unpardonable sin on this here forum for which there is no forgiveness.

My advice, free of charge as always, is to please not vote, pass on your deceased and ridiculous DNA or operate heavy machinery.

[ Edited: 04 July 2009 09:52 AM by Lapin Diabolique]
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Posted: 06 July 2009 09:22 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]  
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Bad Rabbit - 04 July 2009 12:37 PM

My advice, free of charge as always, is to please not vote, pass on your deceased and ridiculous DNA or operate heavy machinery.

Good advice, there, Lugubrious Lagomorph, lophophore of lasciviousness, leveler of the ludicrous, and lampooner of the illimitably lame.

What in the bejezus? Bee here now!

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Posted: 15 April 2011 10:43 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]  
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unsmoked - 25 June 2009 05:14 PM

arrogance n : a feeling or an impression of superiority manifestd in an overbearing manner or presumptuous claims -

megalomania n : 2: a delusional mental disorder that is marked by infantile feelings of personal omnipotence and grandeur -

“I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life.  No one comes to the Father except by me.”  - Jesus

In his book, ‘LETTER TO A CHRISTIAN NATION’, Sam Harris writes:

“One of the monumental ironies of religious discourse can be appreciated in the frequency with which people of faith praise themselves for their humility, while condemning scientists and other non-believers for their intellectual arrogance.  There is, in fact, no worldview more reprehensible in its arrogance than that of a religious believer: the creator of the universe takes an interest in me, approves of me, loves me, and will reward me after death; my current beliefs, drawn from scripture, will remain the best statement of the truth until the end of the world; everyone who disagrees with me will spend eternity in hell . . .  An average Christian, in an average church, listening to an average Sunday sermon has achieved a level of arrogance simply unimaginable in scientific discourse - and there have been some extraordinarily arrogant scientists.”

I am unsure how your own definition of arrogance does not apply to yourself. Implying that people who disagree with you are megalomaniacs seems to be as arrogant as anything Harris’ misleading comments about Christianity suggest. I say they are misleading because though it is true that Christianity teaches that God does love those truly converted to Him, he does not love them because they are better than anyone else. The bible teaches that salvation is by grace since no one deserves it. The concept of grace in the New Testament is an “undeserved gift.” I think this quote is an example of the humility taught in Christianity, “Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves. Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others. Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death—even death on a cross!” (Philippians 2:3-8) There are many hypocrites on both the atheist and Christian side, but I hope you do not judge Christianity on the basis of hypocrites who call themselves by our name, and I assume you would want me to do the same with Atheist hypocrites such as Joseph Stalin.

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Posted: 18 April 2011 08:34 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]  
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The original post in this topic definitively shows a fulfillment of the prophecy :

Luke 2:34 (Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition)

34 And Simeon blessed them, and said to Mary his mother : Behold this child is set for the fall, and for the resurrection of many in Israel, and for a sign which shall be contradicted;

I am thankful that Jesus Christ has included me in the resurrection of His Saints.

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the resurrected Prophet of the Most High,
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Posted: 19 April 2011 08:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]  
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Edward Palamar - 18 April 2011 12:34 PM

The original post in this topic definitively shows a fulfillment of the prophecy :

Luke 2:34 (Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition)

34 And Simeon blessed them, and said to Mary his mother : Behold this child is set for the fall, and for the resurrection of many in Israel, and for a sign which shall be contradicted;

I am thankful that Jesus Christ has included me in the resurrection of His Saints.

Nice sarcasm I think.

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