The Kolob Theorem
Posted: 09 July 2006 05:13 AM   [ Ignore ]  
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Which religion contains the weirder theogony, Mormonism or Scientology?

I—can't—deCIDE! 

:shock:

http://www.hickmanmuseum.homestead.com/THE_KOLOB_THEOREM.pdf

(Kolob is the star which God is said to reside near or on or…something.  The theorem is in book form and looks all official and scientific and so it must be true.)

:mrgreen:

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Posted: 09 July 2006 05:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]  
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Wow, that thing’s 98 pages long. I got as far as the part about god sitting on the stars and guiding their movements. Things discoverd since the time of Joseph Smith…

That was enough. Nice pictures though.

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Posted: 09 July 2006 02:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]  
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[quote author=“Josie”]Which religion contains the weirder theogony, Mormonism or Scientology?

I—can’t—deCIDE! 

:shock:

http://www.hickmanmuseum.homestead.com/THE_KOLOB_THEOREM.pdf

(Kolob is the star which God is said to reside near or on or…something.  The theorem is in book form and looks all official and scientific and so it must be true.)

:mrgreen:

Hi Josie.

I am a recent former Mormon having come out of the entrenchments of my faith only about 20 months ago.  I battled cognitive dissonance fiercely for 7 years before I was able to finally let logic weigh in and settle the matter once and for all that Mormonism is an invention.

I will be honest, re reading this Kolob Theorum set me back on my heels momentarily.  Some of what the author wrote are doctrines I used to hold near and dear to my heart.  I experienced a mild panic revisiting the assertions in that some of the explanations he came up with were similar to how I used to rationalize that Mormonism indeed was God’s true religion, Smith was the restorer of Jesus’s gospel that became corrupted150 a.d.

I had to force myself to revisit how the many scriptures the author used came from a Smith invented book supposedly written by Father Abraham himself.

The author is fringe.  Many Mormons do not get so wrapped up in these explanations and doctrines.  It is not encouraged by the general authorities.  Mostly, these types of theorums originate from extremely bright Mormons who become extremely bored with the primary lay person gospel teaching going on week in and week out.  There is nothing new ever taught in Mormonism.  It is rather boring.  Once you hear the same lessons, oh, about 15 times over 20 years, you start to go stir crazy and this document you provided is what can result.

Rather than ditch their Mormon testimony, they choose to delve into uncharted mysticism.

This article you provided is really the tip of the iceberg.  Mormons believe that in heaven, men will have countless wives.  It goes on from there.

Noggin

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Posted: 10 July 2006 02:06 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]  
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[quote author=“Noggin”]I am a recent former Mormon

I was a mormon for most of my life.

Mostly, these types of theorums originate from extremely bright Mormons who become extremely bored with the primary lay person gospel teaching going on week in and week out.

yessiree, that’s true.  I have the yawn marks to prove it.

There is nothing new ever taught in Mormonism.

Oh yes there is.  Every time the prophet has a “revelation”.  :wink:

Thanks for responding.

Josie

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Posted: 10 July 2006 06:23 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]  
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The Kolob Theorem...which holds that each galaxy’s core is the seat of a controlling deity.

Here are some fun quotes for those of you who bore easily or else are horrified by the topic length (as frankly I am):

We can learn by astronomy but better still is to learn from the scriptures which were dictated by the creator himself, who is our Heavenly Father.

ie: Put your brain in the coat check and listen to us—I mean—God!

Most of us think of our earth as an inert lump of rock forever circling the sun. However we assert the earth is alive. It is has a spirit, can talk and can keep God’s commandments and will finally be exalted in the Celestial Kingdom.

It keeps God’s commandments?  What about “Thou shalt not kill?”

The Urim and Thummim was used by Abraham to see through what we theorize as the veil of interstellar dust and into the very heart of the Galaxy. This is the location where the Kolob Theorem places the throne of God with Kolob in the center.

The Urim and Thummim are better than a radio telescope! They show what isn’t even there and don’t show what is there!  (Namely, that our galaxy, like so many others, has a black hole at its center and not a star.)

...when earth time is counted no longer, the earth will depart from its orbit about the sun and return through the terrestrial zone (the millennial period) then to resume its original place in the celestial kingdom.

That would require travel by the earth across many tens of thousands of light years to reach the center of the galaxy, where it would then be sucked disasterously into the black hole already mentioned.

Astronomers have recently found evidence of super massive activities at the center of several external galaxies. These are called black holes.

Aha!  The problem is finally acknowledged.

This new information leads us to ask ourselves:
• Could a black hole exist in the heart of every galaxy?
• Could there be a black hole at the center of the Milky Way?
• Could a black hole also be called “Kolob”?

Now the star Kolob is a black hole?

Consider that nearly 150 years ago, long before science had any idea of the structure of the Universe, God’s prophet said that there exists “clouds round about in the heavens”...the purpose of these clouds is to keep the planets from being consumed. What profound insight! We stand with awe and respect for Joseph’s prophetic powers.

Don’t get too excited.  These amazing “clouds of dust” contain less particles of matter in them than the finest vacuum that we can possibly create on planet Earth.

In the great revelation on astronomy given to Abraham and again to Joseph Smith, we are informed that light radiates out from Kolob to give power to the sun, moon, and earth thru the medium of Kae-e-vanrash and Kli-flos-is-es…Astronomers have yet to confirm that our sun, for example, is renewed or refueled by such outpourings from the heavenly center.

Damn straight.  Our sun, a fairly unremarkable, run-of-the-mill main sequence star, is powered by nuclear fusion.

We suspect that there are unusual stars in the center with profound radiations emanating from them, Eloheim’s bright throne, in a band of the spectrum not visible to the eye and not yet well understood by man.

Still awaiting confirmation of that. 

The Prophet Joseph Smith taught there are other deities, also. He said there are Lords many and Gods many and that he was not “scared to death of such a doctrine” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.373). These deities surely have creations and dominions comparable to our Heavenly Father’s, and thus, there are some remote worlds, stars, and creations that are not of our Father’s making.

Mormonism is essentially polytheistic.

When we observe an external galaxy we see it can be divided into three areas, each glowing with a different color of light. The Kolob Theorem identifies the center bulge of every galaxy as the location of a celestial kingdom, with outer rings successively as terrestrial and telestial kingdoms.  Outer darkness, a kingdom without glory, must be located outside any of the kingdoms of glory for all of them shine and are lit up. We postulate the Devil and sons of perdition are cast out beyond the galaxy and shielded from it by a veil of dust.

Groovy.  Hell is cold, not hot.

All right, that’s about halfway through.  I think you get the picture.

Josie

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Posted: 11 July 2006 03:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]  
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Here is a Mormon Hymn about Kolob which, according to Joseph Smith while under direct revelation from God, is located near the planet Smith called, again—through revelation no less, “Oliblish”:

  If You Could Hie to KOLOB

  If you could hie to Kolob in the twinkling of an eye,
    And then continue onward with the speed of light to fly**,
    D’ye think that you could ever, through all eternity,
    Find out the generation where Gods began to be?

  Or see the grand beginning, where space did not extend?
    Or view the last creation where Gods and matter end?
    Methinks the Spirit whispers, “No man has found ‘pure space’,”
    Nor seen the outside curtains, where nothing has a place.

  The works of God continue, and worlds and lives abound;
    Improvement and progression have one eternal round.
    There is no end to matter; there is no end to space;
    There is no end to spirit; there is no end to race.

I participated in singing this hymn only a few times in my three decades of Mormon experience.  Many but not all Mormons are familiar with it.  A lot of Mormons are embarrassed by the Kolobian doctrine.  Most dismiss Kolob as a creative accounting of a prophet.  They cannot escape that current canonized LDS scripture prints Joseph Smith’s revelations mentioning and explaining Kolob.

I don’t know if the song will transfer with the following link but if it does, you can hear what it sounds like.  (If not, and you are interested, you can cut/paste the url.)

http://nowscape.com/mormon/images/If_You_Could_Hie_To_KOLOB_from_Levi_Sisemore.mid

In short, it’s a strange song about a strange doctrine that most Mormons wish would just… go… away….

Noggin… whistling the Kolobian tune as he signs off.

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Posted: 11 July 2006 06:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]  
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I thought that Urim and Thummim (thought and memory) were Wotan’s ravens.  So that isn’t even origional.
Would be nice if Mormonism included a Ragnarok tho….....

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Posted: 12 July 2006 01:53 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]  
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[quote author=“Noggin”]In short, it’s a strange song about a strange doctrine that most Mormons wish would just… go… away….

I can’t remember singing that in my ward.  Maybe once.  The chorister was too pragmatic, possibly?  smile  There was far more putting the shoulder to the wheel than hieing off to Kolob.

Josie

[ Edited: 12 July 2006 02:01 AM by ]
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Posted: 12 July 2006 02:01 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]  
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[quote author=“switch”]I thought that Urim and Thummim (thought and memory) were Wotan’s ravens.

Wow, I never drew the correlation.  Interesting switch, thanks.

Would be nice if Mormonism included a Ragnarok tho….....

Hey!  Totally!  A little Gotterdammerung never hurt anybody, right?  :mrgreen:

-Ragnarok (“Doom of the Gods”), also called Gotterdammerung, means the end of the cosmos in Norse mythology. It will be preceded by Fimbulvetr, the winter of winters. 

-The wolf Skoll will finally devour the sun, and his brother Hati will eat the moon, plunging the earth [into] darkness. The stars will vanish from the sky.

-The earth will shudder with earthquakes, and every bond and fetter will burst, freeing the terrible wolf Fenrir. The sea will rear up because Jormungand, the Midgard Serpent, is twisting and writhing in fury as he makes his way toward the land.

-Meanwhile, Heimdall will sound his horn, calling the sons of Odin and the heroes to the battlefield. From all the corners of the world, gods, giants, dwarves, demons and elves will ride towards the huge plain of Vigrid where the last battle will be fought.  The fight between Odin and Fenrir will rage for a long time, but finally Fenrir will seize Odin and swallow him.

-After the destruction, a new and idyllic world will arise from the sea and will be filled with abundant supplies. Some of the gods will survive, others will be reborn. Wickedness and misery will no longer exist and gods and men will live happily together.

...on second thought, this sounds a bit like Revelation.

I could handle Ragnarok if they let me be a Valkyrie.  :D

Josie

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Posted: 12 July 2006 03:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]  
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Brief background for the non mormon:
Joseph Smith claimed to have translated golden plates that depicted a 1000 year slice of history of Central and North American indians from 400 bc to 350 a.d.  Smith claims these indians descended from Israel.  He supposedly found the gold plates hidden under a stone a couple miles from his house.  An angel told him the location three times.  These plates were written in a mysterious language he called “Reformed Egyptian”.  The method of translating as told by Smith in Church History was by using a Urimm and Thummin that was also buried with the plates.  There are a few eye witness accounts that tell of some device purported to be the U & T as two cyrstals set in glass frames worn as eye glasses.

In reality, the way the golden plates were “Translated” was later verified with certainty that Smith put a brown treasure seeking occultic seer stone or peep stone in a hat and covered his face into the hat and dictated the entire book from that position.  Much of the time the golden plates were not even in the same room.

(Incidentally, no other human was allowed to see the golden plates… they were told they would die if they looked at them and there was a cloth over something that resembled a stack of metal plates in shape)

Here is what I found out about the Urimm and Thummin as real life scholars reveal:

In Old Testament times, the three main channels of God’s revelation were the sages, the priests, and the prophets. The priests had various duties, but their primary function until after the death of King Solomon was that of divining the will of God by the use of ..urim and thummin.”

Scholars think that these words refer to objects, perhaps stones, used by the high priest to ascertain the will of God in any important matter affecting the nation. One theory is that the stones were used to cast

source:http://www.pen.k12.va.us/Div/Winchester/jhhs/math/lessons/stat/urim.html

Urim and Thummim typically translate as “lights and perfections” or “revelation and truth” - were a divination medium or process used by ancient Hebrews (usually Israelites) in revealing the will of God on a contested point of view or other problem.

According to the teachings of Judaism, a small parchment with God’s holy name, the Tetragrammaton, inscribed on it was slipped into an opening under the Urim and Thummim on the high priest’s breast plate, which caused the breastplate to “glow” and thereby “transmit messages” from God to the Children of Israel.

source: http://www.crystalinks.com/urim.html

http://www.crystalinks.com/urimvest.jpg

Some scholars have suggested “the” Urim and Thummim consists of two crystals; however, the precise nature of the medium is unknown to most secular scholars. According to the Hebrew Bible, stones used for “an” Urim and Thummim were kept in the breastplate of Aaron, the brother of Moses.

More recent scholars have pointed to the plural nature of the words to argue that there wasn’t “a” certain device, but rather Urim and Thummim was the process or procedure priests used in the casting of lots and some sort of stones or jewels were the medium. Others have pointed out that the words “Urim and Thummim,” in the Hebrew, begin with the first letter (aleph,) and end with the final letter (tav,) of the Hebrew alphabet, that the device contained these and perhaps other letters of the Hebrew alphabet, which were used as lots to determine the response of the oracle.

There is some evidence that Urim and Thummim were/was used as a lot that provided “yes” or “no” answers, depending upon whether the Urim or the Thummim came into play, as manipulated by a Hebrew oracle. There is also evidence that the medium was used as an ordeal to establish a person’s guilt or innocence.

Aaron supposedly carried a Urimm and Thummin.  Can you imagine being judged guilty of a crime by a old guy wearing this vest of stones?  Wouldn’t you be like, pissed off?

Here is a pinnacle of Mormon perspective from pro Mormon website:

The existence and use of the Urim and Thummim as an instrument of revelation will continue among exalted beings in eternity. From the inspired writings of the Prophet we learn that angels “reside in the presence of God, on a globe like a sea of glass and fire, where all things for their glory are manifest, past, present, and future, and are continually before the Lord. The place where God resides is a great Urim and Thummim. This earth, in its sanctified and immortal state, will be made like unto crystal and will be a Urim and Thummim to the inhabitants who dwell thereon, whereby all things pertaining to an inferior kingdom, or all kingdoms of a lower order, will be manifest to those who dwell on it; and this earth will be Christ’s. Then the white stone mentioned in Revelation 2:17, will become a Urim and Thummim to each individual who receives one, whereby things pertaining to a higher order of kingdoms will be made known.” (D. & C. 130:6-11.)
source: http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/daily/prayer/seer_stones_eom.htm

There are masonic tie ins as well but this is getting long and I’ll end here.

Kolob… Oliblish… Urim and Thummin… polygamy.  I swallowed it all.  I served 2 years 24/7 trying to convert others to believe in this.  These are the fibers that made up my reality from birth.  It was all completely normal to believe this was all real and “god’s way”.

Feel sorry for me… uh, now wink  kidding!

Noggin

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Posted: 12 July 2006 03:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]  
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Wow, Noggin, Thanx for the history.
I read Under the Banner of Heaven, but I think that that deals with more of the more unorthodox Mormon sects than what you would find in SLC.
Still, I find any history of Mormonism interesting.  This is the first modern religion we have been able to observe evolving.  From “revelation” to cult to martyrdom, finally to expansion throughout the world.  Gives you pause when you think about the origions of other faiths:  Was the Ark of the covenent real, or was it just something that only the initiated could “see” once a year.  Shades of Golden plates.

I had never heard of Urimm and Thummin in Mormonism before.  From what I remember of Nordic mythos, Urimm and Thummin (I think it was Hurimm in old norse)  were our old friend the all-father’s ravens.  Since Wotan was a blind god, he’d just sit on his throne, drinking mead I suspect, untill the ravens (thought and memory) would come to him, whisper in his ear and his ego would return as well as all the ravens had seen transpire since their departure.  Thus dear old Odin ruled Vahalla.  It just sounds really simillar to the smith vision.

Btw, Josie, I think you’d make a fine valkyrie, Just don’t go singing Wagner whilst you fly.  Bad luck.
Switch

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Posted: 12 July 2006 04:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]  
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Switch—you stole my old sig.  But that’s OK.  You’re just a white suburban punk like me.

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Posted: 12 July 2006 05:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]  
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sorry mud, I’m a newbie. didn’t know.
but it still…........................hurts…...

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History is a nightmare from which I am trying to awake.

-James Joyce

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Posted: 12 July 2006 07:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]  
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LOL no problem.  Welcome noob.

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Posted: 19 November 2006 04:05 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]  
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Geez—and people think that Catholics are wierd…..at least all we had to deal with in Catholic school was memorizing the Sacraments, and the Holy Days Of Obligation. 

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