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tonight on PBS "The Mormons"
Posted: 04 May 2007 05:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]  
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[quote author=“Noggin”]good for your wife!  She needs to have seeds like this help her become more grounded in reality.. now, to go against my better judgement, I shall quote a pertinant book of mormon scripture for her:

From the book of Alma 32: 28
  28 Now, we will compare the [PBS broadcast] unto a seed. Now, if ye give place, that a seed may be planted in your heart, behold, if it be a true seed, or a good seed, if ye do not cast it out by your unbelief, that ye will resist the Spirit of the [broadcast], behold, it will begin to swell within your breasts; and when you feel these swelling motions, ye will begin to say within yourselves—It must needs be that this is a good seed, or that the word is good, for it beginneth to enlarge my soul; yea, it beginneth to enlighten my understanding, yea, it beginneth to be delicious to me.

Hey, we can only hope—eh?

Noggin

LOL Nog - man you know your BoM.  I couldn’t tell you the dif between Lehi and Nephi or Moroni or Morihoney or Horny bastard!  LOL.

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Posted: 07 May 2007 02:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]  
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[quote author=“Teddy”]I just watched part two.

A good point from the program:  Mormonism demands a deeper life commitment than any other Christian sect.  You are required to tithe 10% of your income and give away 2 years of your young adult life.  This requires Mormons to take their faith very seriously.  It’s not just a weekend religion.

Not only that, but if you are taking Mormonism seriously, you most likely will have what they call a “calling” which requires usually about 5 to 6 hours of time per week outside and away from your family.  That would be a low level calling.  Higher volume leadership callings are more like 10 hours a week and upper echelon Bishop or Stake President callings might as well be a full time job.  The common theme in the medium to high volume callings are the auxillary meetings.  It is a common joke in Mormonism that the saints have meetings so that that they can plan their next meetings.  I found this to be very true.

On top of that, you will need to visit about 4 families at least once a month to deliver a church sponsored message that takes about 1/2 hr to an hour to study and prepare to deliver.  In many parts of the world, the 4 families you are required to visit live far away.  Here in California, my four families lived on average about 15 to 20 minutes away. Usually, I tried to visit them on Sunday but many times I was out with my “home teaching companion” a couple times a month at night trying to get that assignment done. 

In addition to these items, Mormons are strongly encouraged from the pulpit to reach a par of once per month temple attendance.  This is a 2+ hour session not including driving time.  Again, in California our closest temple was Oakland and that meant 2.5 hours driving for us each way.  So to get to the temple required 5 hours driving, and at least 2 hours inside the temple.  Normally, if we were speedy, we could get up there and back in about 8 hours.  Every month.  And no, kids were not allowed on these trips.  More time away from the kids!  I seriously used to snicker at the TV when my religion used to advertise in primie time slots some touching story about family stuff and then always end it with…

Families… isn’t it about…. time??

On my way out I railed against stuff like that.  I mean it really irked me that I had to be away from my kids and wife so dang much.  I had a newborn baby and a quasi post partum wife that desperately needed me home to support them.  I complained to the authorities.  I was chastized for not having enough faith, told my wife was a very strong woman who could take care of things and that through serving the Lord, my home would be blessed immeasurably.  If Mormonism was about families, I sure wished I could be with mine a little more.  I recall one time when I was reminded about the home teaching program that was designed to take care of family needs.  He was suggesting that while I was away serving the needs of other men’s families, those other men would be available to serve the needs of my own family.  That really sent me over the edge.  Here’s a rogue concept, people.. Why couldn’t I, Noggin, take care of my own family’s needs???

pffffffffffffft.

Okay, so where was I in this purge of a post.  Oh yes.  Church is 3 hours plus driving every single sunday.  Homemaking meeting for the ladies is 2 hours a month at the chapel, ward service projects usually once a quarter.

Members are strongly encouraged to read a 1/2 hour of scripture every day.  Prayer is suggested at a minimum of 3 times a day and additionally at every meal.

If you have non mormon friends, you are guiltified to turn their names over to the missionaries so that they can come over to your house and teach them all about your religion.  If you do not do this, some bishops will see you as a slacker Mormon.

Case in point: Mormons are proxy-baptizing the worlds dead as we speak.  They have ceremonies where a live Mormon will undergo baptism for multiple dead people.  They have over a billion names of dead people stored in their archives under a mountain and they have proxy-baptized over 100 million dead people already!  That is just spooky.

You are learning a lot!  I have done the proxy baptisms.  They are called, plain and simple.. Baptisms For The Dead.  And every member is encouraged to have all their geneology done as far back as major impeding record dead ends will allow.  Even then, you must persist in trying to uncover the stone that impedes your geneological data.  Many tales are told about ghosts who handwrite clues as to who they are on pads of paper during the night so that the living can find them and baptize them.  I am not joking.  I have heard so many stories of people having visions while they slept or recieving impressions upon their mind to look in some forgotten record that they normally would not have gone to and VOILA! there the trail picks up again and poof!  Long lost Aunt Millie from the 17th century is finally found and baptized into the kingdom!  The visions are very hard to process and counteract from a non believer’s perspective but I have succeeded a time or two other times I just shrug and figure the story is bogus and they are just grandstanding to make a great faith promoting rumor blossom.  But still.  How do you tell a person that they hallucinated the name of the person who held the vital information, and whom they never would have thought to contact… except for a dead guy coming to you in your dreams telling you that living person’s name?

My own grandmother (rest her suggested eternal soul) told us of the account of spidery handwriting on her bedside tablet one morning after a fitfull sleepless night worrying about where one particular ancestor’s data was hiding.  That alone galvanized me to Mormonism for, like, forever.

so anyway… mysterious spidery handwriting and VOILA! another flood gate of names opens up.

It’s creepy stuff. This is the stuff and stories that kept me cemented in Mormonism for the last two decades.  I could not argue against it.

  But you don’t go to all that trouble if you’re not serious.  They have the most detailed genealogy records in the world.  Their mountain fortress looks like something NORAD built.

very true… the records are kept in a nuclear bomb proof collosial sized granite vault in the hills of Utah.  They actually carved vaults into the granite mountains.  All for records of dead people that now have been baptized into the Mormon church.  Nothing else… oh sure there are a few prized historical items there but you should see the reels and reels and reels of microfiche data all humidity controlled environment.

See?  Do you get the magnitude of seriousness I have had to go up against?  I mean, do you get it??

The good:

They showed massive amounts of Mormons traveling to Louisiana to assist Hurricane victims.  It was good to see.  It didn’t seem like the charity was meant as a recruitment/conversion effort.

You can thank the current prophet Gordon Hinckley for that.  He has done an immense effort of mainstreaming Mormonism in front of th eyes of mainstream christianity.  Efforts like these have really parlayed the overall general consensus across the board for their wacky image.  But then again, you will see Scientologists running amuck at disaster zones to and fro across the world likewise.  It could just be part of the general plan to get more recruits.

The sad: 

There was a husband whose 42 year old wife died giving birth to their 8th child.  Despite her age and medical issues, they tried to get pregnant because they felt God wanted them to have one last child.  The widower spoke with certainty about being with his wife in heaven.  I don’t always see this level of certainty from other Christians.  It’s sad she sacrificed the only life we get in the false belief that she was doing Gods will.  Listening to the husband say that there are days when he regrets having the 8th child was really sad.  One of his sons was away on his mission when the mother died and didn’t return home.

This is a tragedy.  And I understand the son not attending the funeral.  He is programmed to “know” that Mom is in heaven busy doing missionary work.  So get on with life… no need to be sad.  Mom is in a better place!  There is a case to be made somewhere here for government intervention though I would never want to be the one to start it (I detest gov’t intervention).  So Mom dies giving birth to baby #8.  It’s counterpart is the millions of 19 year old young girl teens that will marry in Provo, Orem, Payson, Sandy and Salt Lake City… and Boise, Idaho Falls etc.  This trend now extends to the outer regions of the church.  I have three sisters.  2 of them married at age 19.  My cousin is almost 19 and is dating a guy at BYU now.  They are “serious”.  This means that in the next couple of months I should be getting an engagement announcement.  We just attended our baby sitter’s wedding last month.  She just turned 20.  These girls are programmed for teen marriage and by the time they reach early twenties, they have 4 or 5 kids already and if they don’t—what in Jesus’ name is wrong with you girl??  Or worse.. Sister, is your husband unwilling to father children with you?  As IF IT WAS ANY OF THEIR BUSINESS.  You guys think I make this up.  I would too if I was reading this account from the outside in.  It is crazy crazy stuff.

My first wife and I never got pregnant while we lived in Provo Utah for 5 years.  We divorced (long story).  But the looks people gave us as a barren couple are preciously recorded in my mind forever.  I can’t tell you how many times Mormon authority told me at the last 3 years we were together that I should seriously reconsider putting off starting a family for my wife’s career.  They never considered that we just could not get pregnant.  I was told I was selfish and would regret it later if we could not have kids and we missed our window to have them.

**he shakes his head** 

Noggin

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Posted: 07 May 2007 02:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]  
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Egad, Noggin. . .  What was the benefit to perform as a member of the church in good standing?  So many rules, and what is the penalty for failing to abide by them?

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Posted: 07 May 2007 04:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]  
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[quote author=“Skipshot”]Egad, Noggin. . .  What was the benefit to perform as a member of the church in good standing?  So many rules, and what is the penalty for failing to abide by them?

Finally someone asks it.

I know!  What or why do they do it?

The tangibles are just not there.  People are way committed to this god concept in hopes that if they perform well here, they will gain the reward in the next life.  In Mormonism, that means being with your loved ones (as long as they are also 100% Mormon too) for eternity.  The whole godhood, polygamy, kolob, rule your own planet thing is so wacky.

The benefit was peace of mind that you could toes God’s line of commandments.  It was supposed to bring sweet peace.  It wore me out.  Made me raw and angry.  One was supposed to be filled with the spirit of god.

The penalty?  If one abused the commandments, say adulterey… they were excommunicated if they divulged or were caught.  Mainly, the penalty was a withdrawal of the holy ghost from one’s life and a sadness was supposed to consume you if you ever left the church or if you began sining.  Drinking coffee or alcohol or smoking or masturbating was supposed to send you into the abyss of depression.  Were you too prideful?  That too was supposed to be a doozy.  Basically Mormonism is a 24/7 repentance fest.  I was always repenting before god on a daily basis for losing my temper, saying a curse word, neglecting my wife somehow, or not working hard enough (in my opinion) for my employer.  There was always something for me to feel wretched about. 

Mormons are encouraged to be very pensive about their daily activities and repent every day so as not to accumulate a clutter of sins.  Problem is that I just kept doing the same things over and over and was always repenting for the same old things.  Just when I honestly believed the grace of god had truly touched my life and I was free of some pesky sin for good this time… I’d go and do it again somehow and bleh, start all over again.  How lame was I.

Very tedious.  Be glad you aren’t a part of it.

Noggin

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Posted: 09 May 2007 11:24 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]  
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[quote author=“Noggin”] Basically Mormonism is a 24/7 repentance fest.  I was always repenting before god on a daily basis for losing my temper, saying a curse word, neglecting my wife somehow, or not working hard enough (in my opinion) for my employer.  There was always something for me to feel wretched about. 

Mormons are encouraged to be very pensive about their daily activities and repent every day so as not to accumulate a clutter of sins.  Problem is that I just kept doing the same things over and over and was always repenting for the same old things.  Just when I honestly believed the grace of god had truly touched my life and I was free of some pesky sin for good this time… I’d go and do it again somehow and bleh, start all over again.  How lame was I.

That sounds like the theological equivalent of growing up with an abusive or controlling parent and internalizing all the parent’s judgments.

For what it’s worth, I’m not a Mormon, but when I was a teenager I worried that one could go to hell for thinking about sex on Christmas or Easter. I also thought that Jesus might be angry with people who were born on Christmas Day, like they were trying to steal his birthday.

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Posted: 22 February 2008 01:31 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]  
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Joseph Smith was a psychopath.  Please read The strange world of the psychopath by Robert Hare, and The psychopath in the workplace by Dr John Clarke. 

Most, maybe all religions are started by psychopaths. They are not delusional, they are evil.

The main trait of psychopaths is that they are charming, but they have another evil side to them as well.

They will tell you something that is so outrageous such as speaking to god, etc, that people believe that what they are saying MUST be true. Because normal people do not speak to god etc, they think that if some-one claims to do just that, that the sheer outrageousness of what they means that they must be telling the truth, because no normal person would say something so outrageous. 

BUT PSYCHOPATHS ARE NOT NORMAL PEOPLE.  THEY ARE MONSTERS.

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