Sam Harris

I had two daughters that I didn’t want raped so I trained them not to get into compromising positions.  I had a son who was trained not to take any girl by force for any reason.  What’s the big deal? 

I was raped by a drunken step father at 12 and ran for my life to my grandmother’s house.  I was in boarding school at that time and went to my mother’s apartment after curfew.  I was beaten pretty badly but was told never to tell anyone as Christian girls do not get raped.  She cleaned me up and put me in a cab the next day back to school.  I was told to call her when I got my period and I did and it took me a year before I wondered what would have happened had I missed one.  My grandmother told me years later than I would not have to pay the consequences of this action.  I knew then what she meant. 

I kept my secret and did not even tell my husband as he was the son of a baptist minister.  My girls and son had all the warnings I could give them and so far no rapes and no unwanted pregnancies.  I have two adult grandkids all happy, healty and doing great in their lives.

Sam argued against relativism in TEOF.

Abortion is different from gay marriage in that it involves a non-consenting party.

Nulono - 11 October 2008 09:41 PM

Sam argued against relativism in TEOF.

Abortion is different from gay marriage in that it involves a non-consenting party.

That would be the same non-consenting party that sloughs away every time you scratch your nose.

You are the non-consenting party to gay marriages. So don’t do it.

Aaron - 11 October 2008 10:32 PM

That would be the same non-consenting party that sloughs away every time you scratch your nose.

This has got to be the dumbest thing I have ever heard! I want those 3 seconds back.

You are the non-consenting party to gay marriages. So don’t do it.

Any marriage with a non-consenting participant is immoral.

Nulono - 11 October 2008 10:40 PM

Aaron - 11 October 2008 10:32 PM

That would be the same non-consenting party that sloughs away every time you scratch your nose.

This has got to be the dumbest thing I have ever heard! I want those 3 seconds back.

Nose Scratching Mass Genocide?
All cells have the potential to become human. It’s called ‘cloning’.

Embyronic cells do not have the capacity to become human. They have the potential. Capacity implies they can do it without assistance.

I suspect he was illustrating how any argument can be carried to the point of absurdity. If the Pro-Life movement can define an embryonic cell as a ‘human being’, then it is only fair to define a cell from your nose the same way.

You are the non-consenting party to gay marriages. So don’t do it.

Any marriage with a non-consenting participant is immoral.

My bad there. I was confusing you with someone else.

Sandy - 11 October 2008 08:50 PM

I had two daughters that I didn’t want raped so I trained them not to get into compromising positions.  I had a son who was trained not to take any girl by force for any reason.  What’s the big deal? 

I was raped by a drunken step father at 12 and ran for my life to my grandmother’s house.  I was in boarding school at that time and went to my mother’s apartment after curfew.  I was beaten pretty badly but was told never to tell anyone as Christian girls do not get raped.  She cleaned me up and put me in a cab the next day back to school.  I was told to call her when I got my period and I did and it took me a year before I wondered what would have happened had I missed one.  My grandmother told me years later than I would not have to pay the consequences of this action.  I knew then what she meant. 

I kept my secret and did not even tell my husband as he was the son of a baptist minister.  My girls and son had all the warnings I could give them and so far no rapes and no unwanted pregnancies.  I have two adult grandkids all happy, healty and doing great in their lives.

Well I said in a society where rape is deemed OK e.g. the girls fault or the guy goes unpunished, you know like in your case. So you taught your daughters not to get raped, but if they make a mistake and get raped it is their fault for not avoiding it, right. So by that reasoning it is your fault your step father raped you because you failed to avoid it, right. No big deal, right.

And I’m sorry, but your happiness or the happiness of your children in life has nothing to do with the morality of rape.

Sam argued against relativism in TEOF.

I’ve read his books but I don’t worship at his alter. I disagree with many of his points.

Abortion is different from gay marriage in that it involves a non-consenting party.

Agreed. But that in no way adds anything to the question of morality, or lack there of, of abortion.

Nulono - 11 October 2008 09:41 PM

Abortion is different from gay marriage in that it involves a non-consenting party.

Well, I told that little booger what would happen if he left the neighborhood without my consent. I forbade him to see that little floozy ever again. Now he’s grounded and has to play by himself until I say otherwise.

goodgraydrab - 13 October 2008 02:36 AM

Nulono - 11 October 2008 09:41 PM

Abortion is different from gay marriage in that it involves a non-consenting party.

Well, I told that little booger what would happen if he left the neighborhood without my consent. I forbade him to see that little floozy ever again. Now he’s grounded and has to play by himself until I say otherwise.

???

A non-consenting party is EVERYTHING to do with morality!

An embryonic cell WILL develop further without help, using any reasonable definition of “help”.

Embryos are ALREADY human!

An embryonic cell WILL develop further without help, using any reasonable definition of “help”.

For every woman who has an abortion Nature aborts a hundred, so why are you not calling Nature immoral? If Nature aborts because something is wrong with the embryo it’s good but if a mother aborts because something is wrong with the embryo it’s wrong…......

Where are the most abortions done, the vast majority are in developing counties. Which have the lowest levels of contraceptives/family planning and the highest rates of infant mortality (5 times that of abortion)! So statically you think it is more moral to let children suffer and die a horrible death then to be aborted. Nice. And how easy it is for you to sit at your computer telling those who children are suffering that that is what is right as your stuffing your face with cheesy poofs….. 

Embryos are ALREADY human!

That is your opinion.

Your point? Nature also kills born people.

And, no, it is SCIENTIFIC FACT!

Some of these posts are ridiculous.  Every woman during her breeding years experiences a few late days and even a few months of her period missing and then wham a mini miscarriage can pop or even just a mass of something even if no sexual actions have been involved.  This can be so common that many do not even realize they are pregnant.  Some woman have days of labor and others pop out a baby with no pain involved.  I went 5 months without a heavy period and it turned out I was pregnant but spotted for the first 4 months.  Before Roe vs Wade if a woman had a loss of period for several months and then everything happened at once many were terrified to even see a doctor as it would have meant the fear of abortion.

I was 5 months along and fell off a ladder.  My neighbor walked over when I did not answer the phone and found me knocked out cold with a mass that she identified as a fetus lying next to me.  She was a nurse and cleaned me up and packed my insides and disposed of the mass.  You see this was before 1973 and I chose not to go to the hospital and face a possible court trial.  I did call a private doctor and he made certain I was all right and my parts had not been damaged. 

I get very annoyed when a bunch men get together and talk about the morality of abortion.  I never had one but I can understand that before you men insist the we gals are mandated to have a live birth and spend the next 17 years 24/7 to take care of an unwanted child.  If you are so demoralized by the subject, keep you damn pants on!

Ah, the argument that the fact that some prenates die (as does everyone) somehow negates their personhood, followed up with a good ol’ ad hominem circumstantial* for good measure.

Wait as I bask in the glow of stupidity…

Darn it! Now I have skin cancer. :(

*Lessee… I can’t have an opinion on slavery if I’m not white…. can’t have an opinion on corporal punishment if I’m not a parent… can’t have an opinion on wife beating if I’m not a man… can’t have an opin… you get the gist.

Nulono, you have not responded to my offer for you to take responsibility of my frozen embryos.  Shall I send you the bill for proof?

A little experience with life and death would help you on your search for morality.  I have been a Hospice worker and a mother and grandmother who has lived through many of other’s disasters.  I do not want any government to make a judgment on what happens in a woman’s body. 

Your responsibility sits on your own personal choices.  How others choose is often up to their circumstances.  Financially another child would break a family especially at this time.  Physically another birth could put a woman’s life in danger.

The glory of being a human is our decision-making ability.