2 of 9
2
An Immediate request of all Sam Harris.org members
Posted: 13 November 2008 07:16 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]  
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1221
Joined  2008-07-20
Immediate Suppression - 13 November 2008 08:32 PM

Is this what your parents taught you, in terms of how to communicate effectively with other people?  If not, what do you think they would think of your approach?

I, like most people my age (John McCain being a notable exception, and I’m nowhere near as old as him) am at this point in my life, an orphan.  And for a number of decades before they died, my parents were not an impediment to my saying what I thought.

However,  I understand that you are stinging from some remarks made on several threads, noteably ones involve unusual neurological sypmtoms and the possible post-mortem existence of some sort of spiritual consciousness.

In the spirit of Rodney “Can’t We All Just Get Along” King, I offer the following RULES FOR USING THIS FORM which will be effective on the earlier of (1) when everyone just does this anyway, or (2) when 3/5 of the States, 2/3 of the Provinces, 1 estade and Denmark ratify these rules.

RULE 1.There are no rules.

RULE 2.Say whatever you want.  (I was going to propose “say whatever you think but I thought that might be too constrictive.

RULE 3 If someone responds to your post you
(a) MAY

(1)Ignore the response; or
(2) Reply to the response with evidence and/or argument tending to show either that your original proposition is sound, that the response to which you are replying is devoid of merit, or both.
(b) MAY NOT
(1) Simply restate the proposition addressed by the response, with or without a superficial alteration, or
(2) abruptly change the subject by replying with a non sequitor.

RULE 4   A violation of Rule 3(b)(1) or Rule 3(b)(2) will result in being designated FUCKWIT OF THE MOMENT, and the poster must gird his or her loins, crouch, and prepare for a shitstorm of abuse, insults, and contempt.

Do I have a second?

[ Edited: 13 November 2008 07:55 PM by sam harris is a neocon idiot]
 Signature 

“I am one of the few people I know who has argued in print that torture may be an ethical necessity in our war on terror.”  Sam Harris October 17, 2005

Profile
 
 
Posted: 13 November 2008 07:24 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]  
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1646
Joined  2008-04-02
teuchter - 14 November 2008 12:16 AM

Do I have a second?

Aye!

 Signature 

Real honesty is accepting the theories that best explain the actual data even if those explanations contradict our cherished beliefs.-Scotty

Profile
 
 
Posted: 13 November 2008 08:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]  
Member
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  250
Joined  2008-09-02

Rule 1 invalidates all rules (including Rule 1).  I guess it’s this sort of thinking that keeps the billable hours rolling in and bread on the table.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 13 November 2008 08:24 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]  
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1221
Joined  2008-07-20
little baby cheeses - 14 November 2008 01:05 AM

Rule 1 invalidates all rules (including Rule 1).  I guess it’s this sort of thinking that keeps the billable hours rolling in and bread on the table.

Can’t get anything past you, can I LBC?

 Signature 

“I am one of the few people I know who has argued in print that torture may be an ethical necessity in our war on terror.”  Sam Harris October 17, 2005

Profile
 
 
Posted: 13 November 2008 08:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]  
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1763
Joined  2006-08-20
mpbrockman - 13 November 2008 09:31 PM

A) I’ve been far more accommodating that I might have normally been given that you’re new - and I always make an effort to be welcoming.
B) You’re obviously hung up on imposing your definitions of polite/impolite language upon the rest of us.
C) I was not aware there were any children frequenting this forum (on the slim chance that there are - kids, don’t try this at home)
D) A quick review of your previous posts shows you accusing other members of spouting “bullshit”, accusing them of having “narrow-minded, knee-jerk perspectives” and exhorting them to “get a life”. While falling short of dropping an f-bomb, I doubt this sort of language would win you a lot of friends around the office.
E) Actually, I teach my daughter to ignore self-righteous pontificating types whenever possible. Since this is certainly the case here - I will now be taking my own advice.

Good luck with your forum altering crusade.

What MPB said!

 Signature 

The ants are my friends, they’re blowing in the wind, the ants are blowing in the wind.

Dog is my co-pilot

Profile
 
 
Posted: 13 November 2008 08:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]  
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1763
Joined  2006-08-20
Immediate Suppression - 13 November 2008 08:32 PM

I mean if Sam said it about Sarah Palin in an inflammatory article, that makes it OK all the time, right?

Holy Shit…..what makes it ok all the time is the veracity of the statement. SH was being kind calling Palin a blockhead. What’s accurate is that she is a flaming idiot!

Immediate Suppression - 13 November 2008 08:32 PM

Does the value in acting this way and using this type of language come from the temporary relief it gives you over the frustration that comes when you realize you are not able to change someone’s opinion about the issue you are discussing?

I think that you mistake us for those who give a shit what you or anyone else thinks!  No one here is trying to change anyone’s opinion of anything. If you want to argue with idiots, that’s your problem. Our responsibility lies in skepticism, occasionally we have to resort to ridicule to adequately express ourselves in an otherwise private forum.

 Signature 

The ants are my friends, they’re blowing in the wind, the ants are blowing in the wind.

Dog is my co-pilot

Profile
 
 
Posted: 14 November 2008 01:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]  
Member
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  585
Joined  2007-10-11
Immediate Suppression - 11 November 2008 09:39 PM

There is a pattern of negativity that has consistently infected this forum.  I’ve noticed some Freethinkers, Christians, or others are treated condescendingly, and are insulted and derided for being open minded to some of the types of things Sam Harris talks about in his book.  It only leads to frustration and polarization for both people, which is not healthy.  It also isn’t healthy to insult people, even if it is over the internet.  The temporary relief it gives you only leads to more internal stress, and you start a pattern which is difficult to stop, it just leads to more negative behavior which can actually start to show up in how you act when you are not on the internet.

I myself have been guilty of engaging in some personal attack out of retribution for the insults directed towards me, but that is not an excuse, and I will try to avoid it in the future.

This is an Immediate request to all Sam Harris.org members to stop all unnecessary condescending comments, personal smears, or derogatory language directed towards any other members.  You are free to disagree with people, but please do it in a civil, respectful manner.


I’m with you Immediate suppression , and even as I write this I feel I should have gotten myself a suit of armor before I say a single word. I know I take a chance that I’m going to called a host of names and stigmatized as a “prude” of something like that. That speaks for itself, and makes you rational .


As long as this forum remains here there will doubtless be objections to abusive or otherwise nasty verbal personal attacks etc. There will be the same old reasons given by the posters here telling you why that’s “just the way things are here ” . And anyone who objects should put up or shut up . None of these excuses work for me.

 

As I see it : there seems to be so many impressive minds here; people with prestigious posistions and who hold jobs and careers like teaching, scientists of one kind or another , and lawyers etc. and what I can’t understand is why they need anything but thier intelligence and knowledge to make thier points. I may be naive , but I always thought of those kind of people as people with enough mental fortitude to hold thier own without calling names etc.

 

Actually, there is no good arguement in favor of personal attacks that are just plain insulting and serve no purpose other than to make the other person feel bad, or hurt. That’s the opposite of constructive. There ARE exceptions I will admit, however.

 

To disagree, correct or complain is part of any good debate of course, but those are things that can be done civilly and even with at least some respect if possible. I know this is subjective, but there are those who are so vicious, unnecessarily insulting , foul-mouthed , and in need of some way to let lose and express thier fury at one thing or another they target a participant on this forum to take it out on. One person here, who claims to be such a lofty professional on the same scale as a teacher , or scientist or doctor etc., talks like he’s around just to inform everybody what stupid,idiotic, ignorant, wrong, and birdbrained fools they are. As if it’s the whole objective in his being here. It’s a thorn in the side of civil exchange of thoughts here…almost psychopathic.  That’s the kind of person who kills the fun. He just begs for a verbal slap in the face back. He’s a spoiler .


We should ask ourselves if how we talk is going to be constructive or destructive. Some people who have to pepper everything they say with foul words, and while they will claim that serves a good purpose what’s happening is that such a person is trying to make his/her comments more profound,impressive or have extra impact, shall we say. Why should that be ? What children ! They swear to make themselves sound more formidable or creative or some such thing .  Words like “fuckwit ” for example are inventions that do the trick for some- I guess they figure it’s fun.

 

What is the purpose of this message board—combat ?  Lets not be kids playing fisticuffs .

 


There is another point I want to make and explain : To anyone here : I hope you don’t mistake a spoken fury at another member of the forum with a verbal plastering of some other subject or people other than those on this board !  There’s a differance.  I think if you hate the way something etc. is going or acting or that is happening in this world , I see no reason anyone should be offended if you slam whatever annoyes you or makes you mad. Providing you don’t choose words that burn the ears—-that is words your mother told you were bad.

 

Then last but not least, think of Sam Harris . I’m grateful for him and admire him. He’s the reason this forum exists . So with respect to him,don’t turn this privlege into a teen-age chat room.  Give this board some due class…in honor of Sam Harris if nothing else.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 14 November 2008 07:27 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]  
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2492
Joined  2008-04-05

There are people here that are civil and people here that are not. For people who need civility, I suggest they seek out those that partake in that attitude and converse with them. Navigate the waters here and avoid those whom you do not approve of.

Nobody has the right to come here and put demands on all of us however. Thats for the people than run the website IMO.

 Signature 

‘Every reflecting mind must acknowledge that there is no proof of the existence of a Deity’

‘If ignorance of nature gave birth to gods, knowledge of nature destroys them’

Percy Bysshe Shelley

Profile
 
 
Posted: 14 November 2008 09:17 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]  
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1539
Joined  2006-12-04
McCreason - 14 November 2008 12:27 PM

There are people here that are civil and people here that are not. For people who need civility, I suggest they seek out those that partake in that attitude and converse with them. Navigate the waters here and avoid those whom you do not approve of.

Nobody has the right to come here and put demands on all of us however. Thats for the people than run the website IMO.

Travis (the site administrator) and whoever else runs this forum do us all a huge favor by keeping out of it.  By the way, the other huge favor they did was to update the spam-blocking software to keep out the porn spam that used to bombard us daily.  Anybody remember “Britney Spears Jerking!” ?

I enjoy the harsh comments of the most ornery posters.  They’re vibrant, merciless, concise, and thought-provoking.  I don’t know if I’d like these people as friends, but here they’re invaluable.

 Signature 

“The hands that help are better far than the lips that pray.”
          — Robert G. Ingersoll

Profile
 
 
Posted: 14 November 2008 09:50 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]  
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2492
Joined  2008-04-05

Aaron

Yes the more colorful posters are the ones who liven the place up. It would be dead at times without people like Salt Creek and Sander. I get a good many laughs out of their comments.
This is a public internet message board and people should not take it so seriously. Either participate or do not.

I have always had the notion that the people here that bark the most are probably the nicest people of us all in person. Could be wrong but….part of the fun here is the mystery of it all. grin

 Signature 

‘Every reflecting mind must acknowledge that there is no proof of the existence of a Deity’

‘If ignorance of nature gave birth to gods, knowledge of nature destroys them’

Percy Bysshe Shelley

Profile
 
 
Posted: 14 November 2008 09:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]  
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  3255
Joined  2004-12-24

Salt Creek and Sander (et al) provide us with a good gauge, I think. If you’re truly offended and/or upset by something they’ve posted, you’re taking it and yourself too seriously.

It’s a very simple gauge, and I think also a very accurate one.

In closing I’d just like to say fuck off ... yes, all of you. Just fuck right the hell off.

Byron

 Signature 

“We say, ‘Love your brother…’ We don’t say it really, but… Well we don’t literally say it. We don’t really, literally mean it. No, we don’t believe it either, but… But that message should be clear.”—David St. Hubbins

Profile
 
 
Posted: 14 November 2008 10:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]  
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2492
Joined  2008-04-05

I am very offended by your comments Byron.

So, you can just go roll around in your own shit for all I care.

Uncivil bastards like you!  cheese

 Signature 

‘Every reflecting mind must acknowledge that there is no proof of the existence of a Deity’

‘If ignorance of nature gave birth to gods, knowledge of nature destroys them’

Percy Bysshe Shelley

Profile
 
 
Posted: 14 November 2008 10:43 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]  
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1763
Joined  2006-08-20
McCreason - 14 November 2008 02:50 PM

the people here that bark the most are probably the nicest people of us all in person. Could be wrong but….part of the fun here is the mystery of it all. grin

No question about it. Especially the barking part. On the SHF, it’s important not to take one’s self or others too seriously. In my experience, I’ve only been told to fuck off when I deserved it.

I did recently suggest to an intolerant mormon letter writer that she should “eat shit and die young”. I don’t know if that qualifies as offensive, grin , to anyone to whom it was not directed. Such offense was not intended. However, this is truly the fate I wish for those who share this woman’s beiefs. Her letter rationalizing discrimination against gay’s. was enough to make me gag. At the risk of stepping over the line of tolerance, such beliefs are socially toxic and such people should be quarantined. (now I’m pretty sure that was offensive).

I think that we can depend on SHF members to provide mercilessly concise feedback, especially on topics that have already been thoroughly beaten up in threads past in other generations of posters.

 Signature 

The ants are my friends, they’re blowing in the wind, the ants are blowing in the wind.

Dog is my co-pilot

Profile
 
 
Posted: 14 November 2008 06:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]  
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1639
Joined  2007-12-20

I think it is inaccurate to compare Sam Harris’ words—about Plain—with language used on this forum as a defense in using “off-color” language.  Sam Harris is not offensive in his language; it is his ideas that people find offensive. So I will make a distinction here between the use of “foul” language and perpetuation of controversial ideas. There is a difference here worth considering.

Personally, I am not offended by the language used here but it can be a distraction as I have witnessed people going off in various irrelevant tangents. But demanding censorship—-or expecting it—would be counter to the spirit and intent of this forum. 

Having said that, my preference is to have intelligent conversations.  My experience is those conversations, generally speaking, occur regardless of the quality of language used.  There can be very interesting and intelligent conversations with off-color language and there can be very boring, trite, and irrational conversations with “acceptable” and civilized language. I tend to favor the use of civility, but in the real world civility can get lost in the cracks.  And as a reminder, this forum is not a quarterly, weekly or daily publication that holds literary standards.  It reminds me—-on any given day—-more of a locker room, cocktail party or my favorite neighborhood bar.


We don’t live in a world that fosters sanitation unless you want to move to China where content is   censored and imposed on you. A forum like this, in cyberspace, with all the inherent anonymity would not reasonably expect anything more or less.

In a perfect world, if we could all speak with the eloquence and fortitude of Sam Harris, there would be no need or want of foul language.  Sam doesn’t have a need for foul language because he has a talented way of using language effectively without it.  That most of the world lacks that talent may explain the need for other forms of expression.

IOW: Let it be.

 Signature 

“Every war is a war against children.”
Howard Zinn

Profile
 
 
Posted: 14 November 2008 06:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]  
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1221
Joined  2008-07-20
lindajean - 14 November 2008 11:25 PM

It reminds me—-on any given day—-more of ...my favorite neighborhood bar.

that’s the ticket!

lindajean - 14 November 2008 11:25 PM

A forum like this, in cyberspace, with all the inherent anonymity would not reasonably expect anything more or less.

Actually I’m this annoying in person.

 Signature 

“I am one of the few people I know who has argued in print that torture may be an ethical necessity in our war on terror.”  Sam Harris October 17, 2005

Profile
 
 
   
2 of 9
2
 
RSS 2.0     Atom Feed