Sam Harris

Blog: Is Jesus a Myth?

http://tbknews.blogspot.com/2009/05/is-jesus-myth.html

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Yeah I think he was. Typical messiah or oppression-redemption myth common for that era of human history.

Nothing known about his young life, very few outside historical references to him, of course no body or burial proof, (thanks to the resurrection of convienence)

One would have to reason that the son of god, creator of the universe would not be so inconspicuous huh?

The whole story kind of makes me think of King Arthur or something. The hero worship thing.

I am wondering how many characters out of the OT are myths as well. Abraham, Moses, David, Solomon, etc., Probably more than real people.

Back in those days people had a lot of time on their hands and thus lots of time to make shit up! There was no way to fact check anything ya know.

McCreason - 26 May 2009 09:50 PM

Yeah I think he was. Typical messiah or oppression-redemption myth common for that era of human history.

Nothing known about his young life, very few outside historical references to him, of course no body or burial proof, (thanks to the resurrection of convienence)

One would have to reason that the son of god, creator of the universe would not be so inconspicuous huh?

The whole story kind of makes me think of King Arthur or something. The hero worship thing.

I am wondering how many characters out of the OT are myths as well. Abraham, Moses, David, Solomon, etc., Probably more than real people.

Back in those days people had a lot of time on their hands and thus lots of time to make shit up! There was no way to fact check anything ya know.

I tend to agree that Jesus is merely a mythological character.  Just about every aspect of his character is borrowed from an earlier mythology. 

The one question that has not been satisfactorily answered is the issue of James, the brother of the Lord.  I am not wholly convinced that “brother of the Lord” was referring to membership in some kind of a group or cult.  It sure sounds like it was referring to James being the brother of Jesus.  If James existed, if Paul existed, then a Jesus must have existed.  But this Jesus was merely a seed of the Jesus of the gospels.  Every significant thing about Jesus - his being born of a virgin, escaping the slaughter of innocents, the Eastern star, the healings, the rousing from the dead, the crucifixion, resurrection and ascension, the last supper, etc. - are all clearly borrowed from previous mythologies.

Rami - 28 May 2009 08:20 AM

I am not wholly convinced that “brother of the Lord” was referring to membership in some kind of a group or cult.

(Andrew):  What would it take to convince you?  Paul uses the word “brother” many times in his letters to refer to people who were not siblings.  The phrase “Brothers in the Lord” (Phillipians 1:14) refers to a community of believers, the leader of which—James—may have been called “Brother of the Lord” by the members.

Rami - 28 May 2009 08:20 AM

It sure sounds like it was referring to James being the brother of Jesus.

(Andrew):  It would sound more like it if the reference was to the “brother of Jesus”, and not to the “brother of the Lord”.

I don’t know, I’ve read some of her books and they are about 50/50 at best.

History is replete with myth being added on to normal people, so it not difficult to see that happening.

Here is a modern example.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sai_Baba_of_Shirdi

I think Salt Creek is a myth although pictures have been seen.

Jesus is definitely a myth.

Whether or not there was an actual dude named Jesus (or whatever) who’s the source of the Jesus myth is a different question, as-is that individual’s actual nature, should he have actually existed.

SkepticX - 28 May 2009 04:29 PM

Jesus is definitely a myth.

Whether or not there was an actual dude named Jesus (or whatever) who’s the source of the Jesus myth is a different question, as-is that individual’s actual nature, should he have actually existed.

Jesus as god incarnate is certainly myth, but Jesus the man going about preaching his version of the vision is completely plausible.

Hey I saw on TV where they found his family tomb.

Jesus confirmation must have been made by this time on South Park. GAD?????

GAD - 28 May 2009 04:47 PM

Hey I saw on TV where they found his family tomb.

(Andrew):  South Park?

Andrew - 28 May 2009 04:55 PM

GAD - 28 May 2009 04:47 PM

Hey I saw on TV where they found his family tomb.

(Andrew):  South Park?

LOL! No, not in this case, it was a discovery channel show. You guys didn’t see this?

http://dsc.discovery.com/convergence/tomb/tomb.html

Yeah I saw it, but if it does not come from South Park or Penn Jillette I pretty much ignore it.

They are only mostly right.

But I believe everything that Teller says; He has never led me wrong.

Rami “The one question that has not been satisfactorily answered is the issue of James, the brother of the Lord.”

There’s plenty of work around giving good reason to be highly suspicious of that too:

“Josephus probably wrote of the death of a Jewish Jerusalem personage called James, and a Christian reader thought he must have meant James the “brother of the Lord” who, according to Christian tradition, led the Jerusalem church about the time in question. This reader accordingly noted in the margin: “James = the brother of Jesus, him called Christ”, and a later copyist took this as belonging to the text and incorporated it. Other interpolations are known to have originated in precisely this way. Of course, this will be a more plausible hypothesis if there are positive reasons for doubting authenticity. One such is that in Josephus’s entire work the term “the Christ”, meaning the Messiah, occurs only in two passages where mention is made of Jesus, with no attempt to explain what it means to the pagan readers to whom Josephus was appealing…”

- G.A. Wells “The Jesus Legend” (53)

GAD “I don’t know, I’ve read some of her books and they are about 50/50 at best. “

You haven’t read “Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection” or “Who Was Jesus? Fingerprints of The Christ” nor “Suns of God.”

GAD “Jesus as god incarnate is certainly myth, but Jesus the man going about preaching his version of the vision is completely plausible.”

Jesus the man, is plausible - there’s just no valid evidence to substantiate the claim. There were many Jesus’s but none seem to be THE biblical Jesus. I see no reason to give benefit of the doubt in this case - taking the apriori assumption of a HJ seems like another giant leap of faith to me. How about providing valid evidence first instead?

GAD “I saw on TV where they found his family tomb…discovery channel”

Are you kidding me? That has been so thoroughly debunked that it’s laughable. Even Christians are embarrassed to continue making that claim now.

Dave31 - 30 May 2009 03:31 PM

GAD “I don’t know, I’ve read some of her books and they are about 50/50 at best. “

You haven’t read “Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection” or “Who Was Jesus? Fingerprints of The Christ” nor “Suns of God.”

GAD “Jesus as god incarnate is certainly myth, but Jesus the man going about preaching his version of the vision is completely plausible.”

Jesus the man, is plausible - there’s just no valid evidence to substantiate the claim. There were many Jesus’s but none seem to be THE biblical Jesus. I see no reason to give benefit of the doubt in this case - taking the apriori assumption of a HJ seems like another giant leap of faith to me. How about providing valid evidence first instead?

GAD “I saw on TV where they found his family tomb…discovery channel”

Are you kidding me? That has been so thoroughly debunked that it’s laughable. Even Christians are embarrassed to continue making that claim now.

Damn Dave31, you act like I just fucked your sister or something, she’s not your sister is she? I have not read Christ in Egypt or Who Was Jesus, but I have read The Christ Conspiracy and tried to make it through Suns of God, but just didn’t see much return on that investment. After reading through 1-/1/2 of her books I think I’ve earned the right to my opinion.

“Jesus the man, is plausible - there’s just no valid evidence to substantiate the claim.”

I did not say there was I said it was plausible, which it is.

As for Jesus’ tomb, that was a joke, duhhhh.

Jesus could talk to God.  Jesus healed the sick.  Jesus wanted us to be well. 

Why didn’t he teach us to wash our hands frequently?  Whey didn’t he teach us about microbes? 

A.  He didn’t know about them.

B.  He didn’t think it was important.

C.  Cleanliness was already covered by the Torah.

D.  Microbes can’t hurt us if we have faith.

E.  God didn’t send him to teach science classes.

F.  God wanted Christian missionaries to carry deadly microbes to the New World to help stamp out natives.

G.  Jesus is a myth.