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Blog: Is Jesus a Myth?
Posted: 07 August 2012 08:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 151 ]  
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mormovies - 07 August 2012 07:59 PM

Do you believe that the length of a river or the height of a mountain can be known?

I think so (I don’t believe) since we know the length (distance) from earth to mars, we have the mind and technology to measure a river or mountain.  Not a problem.

What is the exact distance from Earth to Mars right now?
What part of the Earth and what part of Mars are you measuring from?
Neither are completely round and their distance from each other varies from moment to moment.
There is no actual point in time in which an accurate measurement can be taken.
Mountains are measured based on ocean level but the ocean level is constantly changing as is the heigth of the mountain itself.
Does the length of a river stop as soon as it contacts the ocean?
Where exactly does a river actually begin?
Nothing can be measured accurately….....even the items that are used to do the measuring.
There is no such thing as an accurate yardstick.

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Posted: 08 August 2012 06:23 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 152 ]  
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What’s your point?  That reality is unknowable?  Does that make Jesus not a myth?  Do you suggest we abandon science and reason?  Your questions reflect the decadence of western civilization.  You ONLY have time to ponder irrationality because science allows you to.  Otherwise you would be out hunting with a spear for your next meal.  Build upon existing knowledge.  Don’t destroy and abandon rationality.

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Posted: 08 August 2012 11:34 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 153 ]  
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mormovies - 08 August 2012 06:23 AM

What’s your point?  That reality is unknowable?  Does that make Jesus not a myth?  Do you suggest we abandon science and reason?  Your questions reflect the decadence of western civilization.  You ONLY have time to ponder irrationality because science allows you to.  Otherwise you would be out hunting with a spear for your next meal.  Build upon existing knowledge.  Don’t destroy and abandon rationality.

I am saying that “science” and “reason” are not at all what the mind imagines them to be.
The conceptual mind mistakes its labels for what it has labeled “reality”.
The brain’s objectifying program is imprinted with the assumption that its own streaming electro-chemical impulses can be “known”.
In truth, nothing can be known.
What is light, magnetism or electricity?
They can be observed and their qualities given names but they can never be “known”.
The brain’s objects cannot be separated and studied in isolation.
Ultimately, there are no separate objects outside of the brain’s conceptual overlay.
Are “waves” separate from the “ocean”?
Are “rivers” and “mountains” actual entities in themselves?
Does “gravity” exist without objects spinning through space?
It is probably impossible for the mind that creates a world in which there are separate objects to see that there are none.
And there is no particular point to all of this discourse.
It appears that the brain here is merely playing in its own thought stream.

 

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Posted: 08 August 2012 11:39 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 154 ]  
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It’s difficult to discuss this topic if our basic understanding of the human animal and human nature are so far apart.  We are animals and like other species we have evolved and adapted to survive.  Our sense of reality is what it is to enable us to survive and progress which is what we have done extremely well.  Look at humans compared to all other species!  There is no magic.  What we don’t understand today does not make it mystical or unknowable.  Our senses are the tools, the only tools we have to observe, reason with and measure reality, including the aspects of reality that we can’t see, touch or smell.

[ Edited: 08 August 2012 11:42 AM by mormovies]
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Posted: 08 August 2012 01:19 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 155 ]  
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mormovies - 08 August 2012 11:39 AM

It’s difficult to discuss this topic if our basic understanding of the human animal and human nature are so far apart.  We are animals and like other species we have evolved and adapted to survive.  Our sense of reality is what it is to enable us to survive and progress which is what we have done extremely well.  Look at humans compared to all other species!  There is no magic.  What we don’t understand today does not make it mystical or unknowable.  Our senses are the tools, the only tools we have to observe, reason with and measure reality, including the aspects of reality that we can’t see, touch or smell.

 

grin
Agreed.
I would suggest that each conceptual mind is so unique that, for the most part, consensus understanding is illusory.
We may agree on things like the best time of the year to plant seeds or how to fly a kite.
But any agreement on things that have no physical counterpart cannot be attained.
Separate minds will never agree on things like “love” or “morals”.
The conceptual mind is a program that evolved to make connections and it has indeed helped its organism survive and reproduce.
(We have yet to see how all that accumulated knowledge works out of it and its species) :-0.
It labors, however, under the false impression that someday it will gather enough knowledge to understand its own reality.
I’m afraid that that will never happen simply because it doesn’t have one.

 

 

 

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Posted: 08 August 2012 01:43 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 156 ]  
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Yes, when you refuse to acknowledge reality, we can never agree.  It’s why the world is so f@#$ up!  There is an objective reality and those who perceive it and understand it have accomplished things so amazing it makes your soul searching look mundane.  The recent Mars rover landing puts the most fantastical religion or mythology to shame!  Sam (and others) has made an excellent argument for an objective morality based on science and reason.  We don’t need the Judeo-Christian first century sub-human brain conceived garbage or the modern new age insanity.

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Posted: 08 August 2012 03:42 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 157 ]  
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mormovies - 08 August 2012 01:43 PM

Yes, when you refuse to acknowledge reality, we can never agree.  It’s why the world is so f@#$ up!  There is an objective reality and those who perceive it and understand it have accomplished things so amazing it makes your soul searching look mundane.  The recent Mars rover landing puts the most fantastical religion or mythology to shame!  Sam (and others) has made an excellent argument for an objective morality based on science and reason.  We don’t need the Judeo-Christian first century sub-human brain conceived garbage or the modern new age insanity.


Objective morality does not exist in the absence of free will.

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Posted: 08 August 2012 08:23 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 158 ]  
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I’ll leave that debate to the neuroscientists.  The verdict is still out.

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Posted: 08 August 2012 08:48 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 159 ]  
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mormovies - 08 August 2012 08:23 PM

I’ll leave that debate to the neuroscientists.  The verdict is still out.

 

No one knows more about something that doesn’t exist.

 

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Posted: 17 August 2012 01:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 160 ]  
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Belief in representing Infallibility, or objective morality if you will, is not exactly a new concept. Neither is the argument of those who doubt salvation and divine truth offered as people of lesser value than the righteous followers of the eternal true path.

But I guess acknowledging limitations to comprehension and knowledge about the unknown is the unfortunate capacity of me and my fellow inferior companions with sub - human brains.

I am sorry for responsibility of all things wrong in the world. I am born with my limitations, and humbly ask for forgiveness not being able to follow the straight and narrow path you who possess the sacred knowledge of objective morality walk. wink

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Posted: 17 August 2012 01:45 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 161 ]  
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But I guess acknowledging limitations to comprehension and knowledge about the unknown is the unfortunate capacity of me and my fellow inferior companions with sub - human brains.

>>>No, sorry, you have it backwards.  Mysticism and religion claim to have the answers and somehow believe they know the workings of the cosmos based on myth or sacred writings.  Scientists are humble and don’t claim to have all the answers.  What little they know is discovered through the scientific method, reason and hard work.

[ Edited: 22 August 2012 04:54 PM by mormovies]
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Posted: 22 August 2012 03:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 162 ]  
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The most ridiculous thing about the Jesus exists argument is it’s soley based on the “bible says so”.  So I guess talking snakes are real too right? So are unicorns and the earth being created in 6 days! LMAO! The Adam and Eve MYTH is real too right? Any moron knows you need a substantial breeding population of a few thousand to survive and we are NOT all inbred that came from just 2 people!

Look at this great link about all the historical characters who lived at the time of Jesus but NEVER saw him or heard of him! Christians don’t want to admit this or talk about it!  This shows it’s clearly just a Judeo Christian MYTH!


There is no historical reference to Jesus’ life, death or the crucifixion, nothing at all. John E. Remsburg, in his classic book The Christ: A Critical Review and Analysis of the Evidence of His Existence1 lists the following contemporary historians/writers who lived during the time, or within a century after the time, that Jesus was supposed to have lived:

Apollonius Persius                         Appian Petronius
Arrian Phaedrus                           Aulus Gellius Philo-Judaeus
Columella Phlegon                         Damis Pliny the Elder
Dio Chrysostom Pliny the Younger         Dion Pruseus Plutarch
Epictetus Pompon Mela                   Favorinus Ptolemy
Florus Lucius Quintilian                   Hermogones Quintius Curtius
Josephus Seneca                           Justus of Tiberius Silius Italicus
Juvenal Statius                             Lucanus Suetonius
Lucian Tacitus                             Lysias Theon of Smyran
Martial Valerius Flaccus                   Paterculus Valerius Maximus
Pausanias

“Enough of the writings of the authors named in the foregoing list remains to form a library. Yet in this mass of Jewish and Pagan literature, aside from two forged passages in the works of a Jewish author, and two disputed passages in the works of Roman writers, there is to be found no mention of Jesus Christ.”

http://www.christianity-revealed.com/cr/files/nohistoricalevidenceofjesus.html

 

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Posted: 22 August 2012 04:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 163 ]  
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Dave31 - 26 May 2009 02:33 PM

Blog: Is Jesus a Myth?

http://tbknews.blogspot.com/2009/05/is-jesus-myth.html

;

I’m not a fan.  Too many inaccuracies.  Mixing facts with sloppy assumptions.  Plus, I don’t have much interest in the rantings of a Conspiracy Theory nut.  Part one would have some credibility if it wasn’t attached to a Part 2.
See Skeptic magazine, Vol 15, #1, where an acquaintance of mine, Tim Callahan, tore it up.

I believe that Jesus, the myth, was based on a real person, or a compilation of a few individuals.  There isn’t much historical evidence, but it does exist.  Ehrman’s latest book covers this.  And he has far more credibility.

I don’t think it matters much in the long run.  Even if there was a mountain of proof he existed, and even if it were proven that he was a haploid, was born in a manger, and did much of what was alleged, it still doesn’t make him the “son of god”.
I’m more focused on his teachings, and why I believe they are, for the most part, incorrect/immoral.

 

[ Edited: 22 August 2012 05:19 PM by Ice Monkey]
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What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof.
~ Hitch

I prefer the full-on embrace of reality to the spiritual masturbation that is religion.
~ S.A. Ladoucier

I think the world is being much helped by the suffering of the poor people
~ M. Teresa, Fruitcake of Calcutta

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Posted: 24 August 2012 04:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 164 ]  
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Ice Monkey - 22 August 2012 04:59 PM
Dave31 - 26 May 2009 02:33 PM

Blog: Is Jesus a Myth?

http://tbknews.blogspot.com/2009/05/is-jesus-myth.html

;

I’m not a fan.  Too many inaccuracies.  Mixing facts with sloppy assumptions.  Plus, I don’t have much interest in the rantings of a Conspiracy Theory nut.  Part one would have some credibility if it wasn’t attached to a Part 2.
See Skeptic magazine, Vol 15, #1, where an acquaintance of mine, Tim Callahan, tore it up.

I believe that Jesus, the myth, was based on a real person, or a compilation of a few individuals.  There isn’t much historical evidence, but it does exist.  Ehrman’s latest book covers this.  And he has far more credibility.

I don’t think it matters much in the long run.  Even if there was a mountain of proof he existed, and even if it were proven that he was a haploid, was born in a manger, and did much of what was alleged, it still doesn’t make him the “son of god”.
I’m more focused on his teachings, and why I believe they are, for the most part, incorrect/immoral.

 

 


One can’t expect too much scientific thought from a man who grew up in the Bronze Age.
But you gotta admit, when it comes to casting out demons, He was pretty much the champ.

 

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Posted: 24 August 2012 08:45 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 165 ]  
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Sorry Jesus just isn’t that impressive next to the great Greek philosophers.  Jeez, even Jules Verne blows away Jesus by writing about a moon landing and splashdown off Florida a hundred years before it happened and even thought possible!  If you want someone who walks on water, go worship Criss Angel!

[ Edited: 25 August 2012 09:12 AM by mormovies]
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