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Posted: 11 January 2008 03:39 AM   [ Ignore ]  
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All groups are cults. Various types of cults include (but are not limited to)

Boy Scouts
Cheerleading
Republican Party
Democratic Party
Police
Army
Navy
Air Force
Marines
Freemasons
Coin Collector Club
Chess Clubs
Philosophy Departments
Fraternities
Sorertitties

All groups are cults. There is always a leader in every group and the members of the group are made to feel as if they belong to that group and start viewing all non-members of their group as outsiders or “civilians”.

Stay away from cults. If you ever catch yourself feeling a sense of belonging to a group, realize you are being conditioned and brainwashed. Get out before it is too late.

[ Edited: 11 January 2008 03:42 AM by Yahsene]
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Posted: 11 January 2008 08:06 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]  
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As you know, you are wrong. Are you simply trying to be provocative? Don’t be smugly didactic; say what you mean, please.

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Posted: 11 January 2008 10:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]  
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Supposedly Groucho Marx said “I wouldn’t want to belong to any club that would accept me as a member.”

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Posted: 11 January 2008 12:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]  
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Aaron - 11 January 2008 01:06 PM

As you know, you are wrong. Are you simply trying to be provocative? Don’t be smugly didactic; say what you mean, please.

Any group that gives you an ideal and accepts you only if you are striving toward that ideal, this is a cult. There is the you that is in the moment, which is no you at all in actuality, and then there is this ideal and you go on trying to be something that you are not and they profit off of your foolishness. It is all the same.

Anybody who gives you a system of belief is your enemy. They are destroying the spontaneity in living. There is no living in ideals. It is a dead end existence. If you try to be Buddha or Jesus as a Buddhist or Christian then you are following an ideal. If you try to live up to somebody’s expectation (which is always based partly off the past and partly off their own perception of reality) then you are a slave.

It is a fact.

[ Edited: 11 January 2008 12:12 PM by Yahsene]
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Posted: 11 January 2008 12:53 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]  
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Yahsene - 11 January 2008 05:08 PM
Aaron - 11 January 2008 01:06 PM

As you know, you are wrong. Are you simply trying to be provocative? Don’t be smugly didactic; say what you mean, please.

Any group that gives you an ideal and accepts you only if you are striving toward that ideal, this is a cult. There is the you that is in the moment, which is no you at all in actuality, and then there is this ideal and you go on trying to be something that you are not and they profit off of your foolishness. It is all the same.

Anybody who gives you a system of belief is your enemy. They are destroying the spontaneity in living. There is no living in ideals. It is a dead end existence. If you try to be Buddha or Jesus as a Buddhist or Christian then you are following an ideal. If you try to live up to somebody’s expectation (which is always based partly off the past and partly off their own perception of reality) then you are a slave.

It is a fact.

This may be true, but it is not the same thing as:

All groups are cults. There is always a leader in every group and the members of the group are made to feel as if they belong to that group and start viewing all non-members of their group as outsiders or “civilians”.

Affinity for an activity often draws people together who feel no contempt or superiority at all toward non-members.  Your coin collectors may fall into that category. All groups are not cults. Perhaps those that employ dogmatism are, though.

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Posted: 11 January 2008 12:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]  
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Aaron - 11 January 2008 05:53 PM
Yahsene - 11 January 2008 05:08 PM
Aaron - 11 January 2008 01:06 PM

As you know, you are wrong. Are you simply trying to be provocative? Don’t be smugly didactic; say what you mean, please.

Any group that gives you an ideal and accepts you only if you are striving toward that ideal, this is a cult. There is the you that is in the moment, which is no you at all in actuality, and then there is this ideal and you go on trying to be something that you are not and they profit off of your foolishness. It is all the same.

Anybody who gives you a system of belief is your enemy. They are destroying the spontaneity in living. There is no living in ideals. It is a dead end existence. If you try to be Buddha or Jesus as a Buddhist or Christian then you are following an ideal. If you try to live up to somebody’s expectation (which is always based partly off the past and partly off their own perception of reality) then you are a slave.

It is a fact.

This may be true, but it is not the same thing as:

All groups are cults. There is always a leader in every group and the members of the group are made to feel as if they belong to that group and start viewing all non-members of their group as outsiders or “civilians”.

Affinity for an activity often draws people together who feel no contempt or superiority at all toward non-members.  Your coin collectors may fall into that category. All groups are not cults. Perhaps those that employ dogmatism are, though.

Whenever somebody feels that they belong to a group then they will automatically see all non-members as different from themselves. It is automatic and across the board. Members of a Masonic club have the same mentality as members of a Football team. It is the same attitude. Why waste our time dividing between them and calling one a cult and another a sport? They are both forms of group think. Why does the human mind need to differentiate between two forms of group think? For what purpose?

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Posted: 11 January 2008 01:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]  
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Yahsene - 11 January 2008 05:57 PM
Aaron - 11 January 2008 05:53 PM
Yahsene - 11 January 2008 05:08 PM
Aaron - 11 January 2008 01:06 PM

As you know, you are wrong. Are you simply trying to be provocative? Don’t be smugly didactic; say what you mean, please.

Any group that gives you an ideal and accepts you only if you are striving toward that ideal, this is a cult. There is the you that is in the moment, which is no you at all in actuality, and then there is this ideal and you go on trying to be something that you are not and they profit off of your foolishness. It is all the same.

Anybody who gives you a system of belief is your enemy. They are destroying the spontaneity in living. There is no living in ideals. It is a dead end existence. If you try to be Buddha or Jesus as a Buddhist or Christian then you are following an ideal. If you try to live up to somebody’s expectation (which is always based partly off the past and partly off their own perception of reality) then you are a slave.

It is a fact.

This may be true, but it is not the same thing as:

All groups are cults. There is always a leader in every group and the members of the group are made to feel as if they belong to that group and start viewing all non-members of their group as outsiders or “civilians”.

Affinity for an activity often draws people together who feel no contempt or superiority at all toward non-members.  Your coin collectors may fall into that category. All groups are not cults. Perhaps those that employ dogmatism are, though.

Whenever somebody feels that they belong to a group then they will automatically see all non-members as different from themselves. It is automatic and across the board. Members of a Masonic club have the same mentality as members of a Football team. It is the same attitude. Why waste our time dividing between them and calling one a cult and another a sport? They are both forms of group think. Why does the human mind need to differentiate between two forms of group think? For what purpose?

You in no way addressed my point. Please try to answer.  There is nothing cult-like about a hiking group seeing a chess group as a non-hiking group. You’re assuming that the hiking group has the same outlook on the chess group as Muslims have on Jews, and you are wrong. That’s why we “waste our time calling one a cult and another a sport.”

What’s your problem?

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Posted: 11 January 2008 02:01 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]  
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Aaron - 11 January 2008 06:55 PM
Yahsene - 11 January 2008 05:57 PM
Aaron - 11 January 2008 05:53 PM
Yahsene - 11 January 2008 05:08 PM
Aaron - 11 January 2008 01:06 PM

As you know, you are wrong. Are you simply trying to be provocative? Don’t be smugly didactic; say what you mean, please.

Any group that gives you an ideal and accepts you only if you are striving toward that ideal, this is a cult. There is the you that is in the moment, which is no you at all in actuality, and then there is this ideal and you go on trying to be something that you are not and they profit off of your foolishness. It is all the same.

Anybody who gives you a system of belief is your enemy. They are destroying the spontaneity in living. There is no living in ideals. It is a dead end existence. If you try to be Buddha or Jesus as a Buddhist or Christian then you are following an ideal. If you try to live up to somebody’s expectation (which is always based partly off the past and partly off their own perception of reality) then you are a slave.

It is a fact.

This may be true, but it is not the same thing as:

All groups are cults. There is always a leader in every group and the members of the group are made to feel as if they belong to that group and start viewing all non-members of their group as outsiders or “civilians”.

Affinity for an activity often draws people together who feel no contempt or superiority at all toward non-members.  Your coin collectors may fall into that category. All groups are not cults. Perhaps those that employ dogmatism are, though.

Whenever somebody feels that they belong to a group then they will automatically see all non-members as different from themselves. It is automatic and across the board. Members of a Masonic club have the same mentality as members of a Football team. It is the same attitude. Why waste our time dividing between them and calling one a cult and another a sport? They are both forms of group think. Why does the human mind need to differentiate between two forms of group think? For what purpose?

You in no way addressed my point. Please try to answer.  There is nothing cult-like about a hiking group seeing a chess group as a non-hiking group. You’re assuming that the hiking group has the same outlook on the chess group as Muslims have on Jews, and you are wrong. That’s why we “waste our time calling one a cult and another a sport.”

What’s your problem?

Why does one ask a question and then proceed to have the usename removed so that the other cannot reply? Bit tactless, eh?

A hiking group is just a group of people that get together to hike. Is a hiking group a club which contains membership? Is there an ideal hiker personality that hikers must live up to? The reference is to clubs and organizations which are all working toward some social goal. Perhaps I could have left Coin Collecting and Chess Clubs out. I got a little overzealous. Not all groups fit this category, clearly.

Can a child who does not believe in God become a boyscout or girlscout? Can a girl be a cheerleader if she does not dress a specific way when she is not cherring or hang out with the other cheerleaders when she is not at practice? This was my reference. The cult-like attitude is one of adapting to others to feel a sense of belonging.

[ Edited: 11 January 2008 02:06 PM by Yahun]
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Posted: 11 January 2008 05:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]  
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Yahun - 11 January 2008 07:01 PM

A hiking group is just a group of people that get together to hike. Is a hiking group a club which contains membership? Is there an ideal hiker personality that hikers must live up to? The reference is to clubs and organizations which are all working toward some social goal. Perhaps I could have left Coin Collecting and Chess Clubs out. I got a little overzealous. Not all groups fit this category, clearly.

It’s my understanding that most fitness clubs only ask that you perform to the best of your abilities. I don’t imagine that a hiking club has an “ideal hiker” that one must ascribe to (“Hey, dumbass! You only hiked 5 miles today! Johnny Appleseed would hike 10 miles, even when he was sick. You’re outta the club, mac!”)

Can a child who does not believe in God become a boyscout or girlscout? Can a girl be a cheerleader if she does not dress a specific way when she is not cherring or hang out with the other cheerleaders when she is not at practice?

Actually, yes. To make a cheerleading squad, one only has to qualify as a cheerleader, just as one has to show competency to be elected into any sort of sport, club or activity. There isn’t any “indoctrination” and girls from any social level can in a school can become a cheerleader if they meet the requirements. They don’t have to act or dress a certain way, nor do they have to hang out with the “right” people. There may be some peer pressure to conform, to be sure, but one can choose not to acquiesce to it.

I think that you’ve seen too many John Hughes movies.

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Posted: 11 January 2008 06:45 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]  
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Celsus - 11 January 2008 10:09 PM
Yahun - 11 January 2008 07:01 PM

A hiking group is just a group of people that get together to hike. Is a hiking group a club which contains membership? Is there an ideal hiker personality that hikers must live up to? The reference is to clubs and organizations which are all working toward some social goal. Perhaps I could have left Coin Collecting and Chess Clubs out. I got a little overzealous. Not all groups fit this category, clearly.

It’s my understanding that most fitness clubs only ask that you perform to the best of your abilities. I don’t imagine that a hiking club has an “ideal hiker” that one must ascribe to (“Hey, dumbass! You only hiked 5 miles today! Johnny Appleseed would hike 10 miles, even when he was sick. You’re outta the club, mac!”)

Can a child who does not believe in God become a boyscout or girlscout? Can a girl be a cheerleader if she does not dress a specific way when she is not cherring or hang out with the other cheerleaders when she is not at practice?

Actually, yes. To make a cheerleading squad, one only has to qualify as a cheerleader, just as one has to show competency to be elected into any sort of sport, club or activity. There isn’t any “indoctrination” and girls from any social level can in a school can become a cheerleader if they meet the requirements. They don’t have to act or dress a certain way, nor do they have to hang out with the “right” people. There may be some peer pressure to conform, to be sure, but one can choose not to acquiesce to it.

I think that you’ve seen too many John Hughes movies.

I don’t even know who John Hughes is. Sorry, chief. Going by what I’ve seen personally. They all talk the same, walk the same, look the same, dress the same, act the same, listen to the same music. It’s brainwashing. Same thing you see in Frats and Sororities, Politics and Churches. They differ only in what their ideal is.

One can even see it on Richard Dawkin’s site. You read the replies of people and you’d swear to god you’re talking to the same person. They use the same terms, discuss subject in the same ordered pattern. It’s group think. See it on here also to some extent.

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Posted: 11 January 2008 07:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]  
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Well, I wouldn’t trust your observations for much, seeing the rather dismal view of humanity that you seem to have.

I work with children quite a deal in my professional life, and while it may at time seem as though the same 30 kids are present in every class room, I think you are guilty of over generalization.

You’re also ignoring the chicken or the egg scenario present here. Do the people who belong to certain groups all act the same way because they belong to the group, or do they join the group because they all act the same way? People have often developed their personalities before they enter into a club, and join that club because it’s a good fit for their interest.

It’s the people that make the club, not the club that makes the people.

You are attributing sinister motives where none exist.

[ Edited: 11 January 2008 08:06 PM by Celsus]
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Posted: 11 January 2008 09:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]  
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Celsus - 12 January 2008 12:44 AM

Well, I wouldn’t trust your observations for much, seeing the rather dismal view of humanity that you seem to have.

I work with children quite a deal in my professional life, and while it may at time seem as though the same 30 kids are present in every class room, I think you are guilty of over generalization.

You’re also ignoring the chicken or the egg scenario present here. Do the people who belong to certain groups all act the same way because they belong to the group, or do they join the group because they all act the same way? People have often developed their personalities before they enter into a club, and join that club because it’s a good fit for their interest.

It’s the people that make the club, not the club that makes the people.

You are attributing sinister motives where none exist.

Sinister motives? It amuses me how people can read something and somehow find things that are not written in it. This goes back to what I was saying about people perceiving through the prisms of their mind.

*Shrugs*

Were there cheerleader types 200 years ago? There are so many now. How did this happen? Is it some sort of genetic trait that human beings developed through evolution during the last 200 years or is it some sort of socialization? Isn’t it funny how one will defend group think when it comes to various non-religious forms, yet the moment it has to do with invisible deities somehow it is deadly and dangerous?

Something to consider. And your Ad Hominems aren’t necessary.
I can’t help but wonder if I had been posting on here and saying everything that you believe if I would be perceived as intelligent in your eyes. If I had the patience I would create an alias and test this, but I don’t.

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Posted: 11 January 2008 10:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]  
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Yahun - 11 January 2008 07:01 PM

Why does one ask a question and then proceed to have the usename removed so that the other cannot reply? Bit tactless, eh?

Sorry, but I had nothing to do with that.

A hiking group is just a group of people that get together to hike. Is a hiking group a club which contains membership?

Sure it is. And a lodge, and board members.

Is there an ideal hiker personality that hikers must live up to? The reference is to clubs and organizations which are all working toward some social goal.

Oh! Is that what you meant by:

Yahsene - 11 January 2008 08:39 AM

All groups are cults.

question

Perhaps I could have left Coin Collecting and Chess Clubs out. I got a little overzealous. Not all groups fit this category, clearly.
Can a child who does not believe in God become a boyscout or girlscout? Can a girl be a cheerleader if she does not dress a specific way when she is not cherring or hang out with the other cheerleaders when she is not at practice? This was my reference.

You’re walking on shaky ground, and your backsliding (as you should) from your initial sweeping generalization.

The cult-like attitude is one of adapting to others to feel a sense of belonging.

Okay. That’s about all that can be kept here. You seem to want to see everything as a battleground, and then you post and post and post.  Cut it out.

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Posted: 11 January 2008 10:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]  
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Celsus - 12 January 2008 12:44 AM

You are attributing sinister motives where none exist.

Yahun - 12 January 2008 02:44 AM

Sinister motives? It amuses me how people can read something and somehow find things that are not written in it. This goes back to what I was saying about people perceiving through the prisms of their mind.

Really?

Yahsene - 11 January 2008 08:39 AM

All groups are cults. There is always a leader in every group and the members of the group are made to feel as if they belong to that group and start viewing all non-members of their group as outsiders or “civilians”.

Stay away from cults. If you ever catch yourself feeling a sense of belonging to a group, realize you are being conditioned and brainwashed. Get out before it is too late.

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“The hands that help are better far than the lips that pray.”
          — Robert G. Ingersoll

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Posted: 11 January 2008 10:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]  
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Aaron - 12 January 2008 03:05 AM

Sorry, but I had nothing to do with that.

And a lodge, and board members.

What for? You need a lodge and board members to climb a hill? People have been doing that for thousands of years. Yes, this is a cult if they have a lodge and board members. That’s retarded. Sorry. If I want to go for a walk then I’ll go for a walk. If I feel like hiking then I’ll hike. I don’t need a lodge and board members and teammates. That’s pathetic, in my opinion.

goal.

Is there an ideal hiker personality that hikers must live up to? The reference is to clubs and organizations which are all working toward some social
Oh! Is that what you meant by:

Yahsene - 11 January 2008 08:39 AM

All groups are cults.

question

Show me a group that does not have a leader and membership requirements and we’ll see if I am wrong. If by a hiking group you mean a group of friends that call each other up and go hiking then that is not what I meant by a group. That is friends hiking. If they have to form a group and recruit members and have a board and a lodge then yes, that is a cult. It is the same structure. Any group with a hierarchy is a cult, in my opinion. Provide some examples and we can see if I am wrong or not.

You’re walking on shaky ground, and your backsliding (as you should) from your initial sweeping generalization.

Isn’t the phrase backpeddling? Backsliding is a Christian term, isn’t it, which means that one fell from their faith?

The cult-like attitude is one of adapting to others to feel a sense of belonging.

Okay. That’s about all that can be kept here. You seem to want to see everything as a battleground, and then you post and post and post.  Cut it out.

A battleground? Perhaps you’re projecting again because this does not apply. And if you don’t like discussing the subjects in my posts then don’t reply. It’s really rather simple. I stopped making new threads as soon as I was asked to. Stop reaching for Ad Hominems and discuss the subject, if you can.

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Posted: 11 January 2008 10:24 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]  
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Aaron - 12 January 2008 03:10 AM
Celsus - 12 January 2008 12:44 AM

You are attributing sinister motives where none exist.

Yahun - 12 January 2008 02:44 AM

Sinister motives? It amuses me how people can read something and somehow find things that are not written in it. This goes back to what I was saying about people perceiving through the prisms of their mind.

Really?

Yahsene - 11 January 2008 08:39 AM

All groups are cults. There is always a leader in every group and the members of the group are made to feel as if they belong to that group and start viewing all non-members of their group as outsiders or “civilians”.

Stay away from cults. If you ever catch yourself feeling a sense of belonging to a group, realize you are being conditioned and brainwashed. Get out before it is too late.


You are aware of the definition for the word “sinister”, yes?

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