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Noam Chomsky, yea or nay?
Posted: 21 August 2008 07:25 AM   [ Ignore ]  
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We all love Chomsky here, right?  Can I get an amen? 

  Pass the communion wine. 

  I would venture that most who post here are progressive or at least mainstream liberal?  Am I wrong? 

  I may be the only anarchist, but that’s more about media suppression than truth. 

  Waves.

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Posted: 21 August 2008 08:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]  
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I love him for his name. I mean…...Noam Chomsky? Come on man. Whats wrong with Norm?

Yeah he has his place. Somewhere between Bill Buckley and Daniel Dennett. But who is keeping score eh?

At least he is not a homophobic, xenophobic, jingoistic conservative fuckwit christian reactionary.

Know what I mean?

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‘Every reflecting mind must acknowledge that there is no proof of the existence of a Deity’

‘If ignorance of nature gave birth to gods, knowledge of nature destroys them’

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Posted: 21 August 2008 08:42 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]  
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homophobic, xenophobic, jingoistic conservative fuckwit christian reactionary.

McCreason, why can’t you just accept Jesus as your personal savior already? Then we can focus on making the world a better place by voting for McCain, banning gay marriage, and building a fence to keep the Mexicans out.

Wow, fuckwittery can be fun!

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Posted: 21 August 2008 10:06 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]  
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because josh…..Kathy Griffin has already converted me to the ...‘Suck it Jesus’ crowd.

No turning back for me now!

I left fuckwittery behind many years ago I am afraid.

It is much more fun ‘thinking’ than simply reacting and obeying or paying homege to 3,000 year old myths and folk tales.

Hell any 5 year old can do that.

By the way how do we know that Paul Bunyun was not a real person? LOL

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‘Every reflecting mind must acknowledge that there is no proof of the existence of a Deity’

‘If ignorance of nature gave birth to gods, knowledge of nature destroys them’

Percy Bysshe Shelley

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Posted: 21 August 2008 11:35 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]  
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FrankChurch - 21 August 2008 11:25 AM

We all love Chomsky here, right?  Can I get an amen? 

  Pass the communion wine. 

  I would venture that most who post here are progressive or at least mainstream liberal?  Am I wrong? 

  I may be the only anarchist, but that’s more about media suppression than truth. 

  Waves.

Nah, I think Chomsky is an egotistical asshole who got offended when the government didn’t recognize his brilliance and immediately make him dictator for life, he has never recovered from the insult.

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Posted: 21 August 2008 12:46 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]  
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FrankChurch - 21 August 2008 11:25 AM

We all love Chomsky here, right?  Can I get an amen? 

  Pass the communion wine. 

  I would venture that most who post here are progressive or at least mainstream liberal?  Am I wrong? 

  I may be the only anarchist, but that’s more about media suppression than truth. 

  Waves.

Welcome FrankChurch. You better buy a few weapons for protection and store away a lot of food before you dissolve the state.

Shoots the finger sarcastically.

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Real honesty is accepting the theories that best explain the actual data even if those explanations contradict our cherished beliefs.-Scotty

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Posted: 21 August 2008 01:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]  
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Yeah no kidding BMU. To be an anarchist is putting way too much FAITH in the human species to be reasonable and trustworthy. Without some kind of structure I am quite sure we would devolve back to our primate roots. Could you imagine?

People are now self centered and destructive. Imagine having no one looking over their shoulder. Like everybody then would automatically do the right thing.

To actually believe in anarchy is inmature, irresponsible and deranged.

Governments are all at least partially dysfunctional and sometimes evil but…..whats the real choice? Like chaos is better and solves fookin’ anything.

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‘Every reflecting mind must acknowledge that there is no proof of the existence of a Deity’

‘If ignorance of nature gave birth to gods, knowledge of nature destroys them’

Percy Bysshe Shelley

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Posted: 21 August 2008 01:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]  
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If humans cannot be trusted, then you are advocating mass killings.  Better to kill them off then let them screw up the world anymore.  Best not to take any chances. 

  Anarchism is basically organic organizations, democratic means of working together, without authority or coersion. 

  If one wants an authoritarian structure to govern their lives then they might as well be a member of a church.  Atheism doesn’t mean much then, does it?

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Posted: 21 August 2008 01:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]  
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Noam sounds off on “concision” in the media as propaganda:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cceC3DeFcY

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Posted: 21 August 2008 02:42 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]  
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I am a Libertarian so believe me I know what anarchism is, as many people believe libertarians ARE in fact anarchists. Thomas Jefferson for instance.

Most people believe Libertarianism a pipe dream.

Anarchism is a step above that even.

Do you think a world with 6.5 billion people can get along harmoniously without authority?

How about an individual family even?

It’s sounds really, really cool dude but….you actually need to grow up.

The best system of government the world has ever known and will know is….sorry but….a representative democracy or republic.

They ain’t perfect but….ya know…it’s all just a work in progress man.
Who you vote for indeed matters.

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‘Every reflecting mind must acknowledge that there is no proof of the existence of a Deity’

‘If ignorance of nature gave birth to gods, knowledge of nature destroys them’

Percy Bysshe Shelley

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Posted: 21 August 2008 02:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]  
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FrankChurch - 21 August 2008 05:44 PM

If humans cannot be trusted, then you are advocating mass killings.  Better to kill them off then let them screw up the world anymore.  Best not to take any chances.

This is what is known as the false dilemma fallacy, also known as the black and white fallacy.  If you believe people need some sort of social order, that does not mean they are so untrustworthy that the only safe and reasonable course of action is to stamp them out.  You enact laws to enforce social order where willing cooperation alone won’t do it, and accept a certain amount of imperfection and lawbreaking as the nature of the beast.

Do you realize that by the logic you just used above, genocide would be preferable to the social order we have right now?  Is that really what you want to suggest?

FrankChurch - 21 August 2008 05:44 PM

Anarchism is basically organic organizations, democratic means of working together, without authority or coersion.

What makes you think there will be no authority or coercion?  What do you think will happen to you the first time someone bigger, tougher, and meaner than you are crosses your path and wants something you have?  In the absence of some sort of social order, what is to stop him from doing just as he likes?  Anarchism is a blueprint for domination of the weak by the strong. 

FrankChurch - 21 August 2008 05:44 PM

If one wants an authoritarian structure to govern their lives then they might as well be a member of a church.  Atheism doesn’t mean much then, does it?

Another false dilemma fallacy.  Order doesn’t have to be religious in nature.  The existence of largely secularized societies right here on earth today proves that authoritarian structure does not have to be wrapped up with a bunch of supernatural mumbo jumbo.

[ Edited: 21 August 2008 02:57 PM by Billy Shears]
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I’ve no need for courtesy when fighting things heretical
I know the bible word for word; you’ll find me pedagogical
I have my faith so I’ve no need for ideas that are logical
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Posted: 21 August 2008 02:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]  
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Authoritarian structures are not democratic.

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Posted: 21 August 2008 02:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]  
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Libertarianism is a wonderful dream. Marx made communism sound good also. Unfortunately, the world is not populated with perfectly selfless people. Assholes like me exist. In reality, selfishness (property) is the main reason why most people are willing to do something that they don’t particularly enjoy (work.) Libertarianism sounds like one big happy group hug; but McCreason is right. We live in the real world. We are not all professors at MIT. If Noam wants to see how anarchy works in reality, he should spend some time in South Central LA.

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Real honesty is accepting the theories that best explain the actual data even if those explanations contradict our cherished beliefs.-Scotty

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Posted: 21 August 2008 02:56 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]  
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Nice post Billy Shears.

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Real honesty is accepting the theories that best explain the actual data even if those explanations contradict our cherished beliefs.-Scotty

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Posted: 21 August 2008 02:56 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]  
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FrankChurch - 21 August 2008 06:49 PM

Authoritarian structures are not democratic.

And we don’t live in a democracy.  We live in a republic.  There is, in fact, no true democracy operating anywhere, in any nation.  The very term “democratic” is merely a label of convenience, and like many labels, imperfectly descriptive.  We accept a certain degree of non-democratic reality in our institutions out of simple practicality.  For one thing, it simply isn’t realistically possible to have pure democracy on the scale of a nation of over 300 million people.  It doesn’t work on such a large scale.

But again, you are committing that black and white fallacy.  Either a thing is democratic or it is authoritarian.  In reality, it can be both, to varying degrees.  Some governments are more democratic than others, some or more authoritarian.  And none are pure democracies, or pure, totalitarian autocracies.  Even the most liberal democracies have restrictions by which their citizens must abide, and even the most repressive autocracies can’t control every single minute of every citizen’s time.

You seem to have a very black and white mentality.  The world is full of shades of gray.

[ Edited: 21 August 2008 03:08 PM by Billy Shears]
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I am the very model of a Christian Evangelical
I’ve no need for courtesy when fighting things heretical
I know the bible word for word; you’ll find me pedagogical
I have my faith so I’ve no need for ideas that are logical
Atheists and Pagans fall before my wit satirical
They’ll burn in hell just as they should; their cries will be so lyrical
I’m always right, you’re always wrong, my reasoning’s dogmatical
For I’m the very model of a Christian Evangelical

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Posted: 21 August 2008 02:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]  
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We all know that social structures get corrupted.  Authoritarian ones even more so; this is why anarchism makes the most sense.

  Authority misuse their power, corrupted by that power.  This is why cops beat up innocent blacks, etc. 

  I do not need any social structure to guide my free will or my life.  I am my own guide and my own best interest. 

  We also have cooperatives all over the US, they work real well.  Argentina has some forms of cooperative factories.  Democratic socialism is springing up in South America.  Hugo Chavez is da man.

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