Sam Harris

There is a huge moral difference between killing and kletting die, and the location of the action has no impact on its morality, as property rights do not give you the right to initiate force.

Sorry, I thought I’d find some intelligent, rational, reasonable people here.

http://www.L4L.org/

My point was you have no point. Your claims are nothing but your own self righteous opinions.

I read your link and want you to know that I have been involved in the LP since its inception.  The focus of this platform was to follow the Constitution that states clearly that unless a subject is mentioned in the Consitution, the authority is sent to the individual states.

The history of abortions in interesting and the early pioneers in America were told about certain herbs that would bring on women’s periods.  Many men were killed during the movement west leaving their wives and children to face the elements of the American west.  These women learned from the indians how to stop a pregnancy early enough to guarantee they could again conceive.  I spent my childhood reading the journals of my own ancestors as they migrated from Scotland and Wales to the new world. 

Survival won the battle and the religious training showed them all that having the already born had to take a position over an unwanted pregnancy.  This sounds a bit too deep for you to understand.

When Harry Brown put together the platform for the Libertarian Party he knew that adding any social provision would be against the Constitution.  The States have this responsibility. 

For years, many states prohibited abortions and like alcohol being banned, it opened up a level of crime that was impossible for any government to stop.

We had a young Romper Room teacher who traveled with her husband to England and was given Thalidomide for her morning sickness.  When she got home she read about the hundreds of deformed babies in England that came from this Thalidomide. 

She went to the Texas Courts begging for an abortion and they denied her request.  She was frantic and ended up flying back to England where they removed a badly damaged fetus from her body. 

If a group of Libertarians ban abortions, I have no problem with this but when they try for legislation, they are breaking the 10th Amendment.

Issues like this abortion mess is exactly why the LP will never grow.  I was a delegate from Arizona in 2004 and had to walk away due to the discrepencies found in nearly every issue on their platform. 

When do you believe life begins?  Can you explain your answer for us please?

Life begins at conception. This is a basic scientific fact.

Abortion, like all violence, should be handled by the states.

Rape is also more dangerous when illegal.

And I can’t believe you support kkilling those with disabilities.

I agree the Libertarian party needs to be more inclusive.

Life begins at conception. This is a basic scientific fact.

You didn’t define what life is.

And I can’t believe you support kkilling those with disabilities

.

And I can’t believe that you want children to suffer just so you can feel good about yourself.

The point is-science does not know exactly when conception is, or when the fuzzy life begins.

Both the egg and the sperm meet the definition of life before they come together. So when you say life starts at conception how are you differentiating that from what was before. Sounds like the magic soul of theism.

I killed a rattlesnake that was under my vehicle today. If I had not killed it, it may have killed my children who had to get into my vehicle to go to school (which is about 9 miles away.) Are you mourning this loss of life? I am so cold and cruel; I am actually relieved that I killed it before it injected its dangerous venom into one of us.

Jefe.  I joined the LP officially in 1992.  The platform was already in two pieces.  They even ran different campaigns with different men.  I had attended many meetings in Los Angeles County and they seemed to be closely aligned with Browne.  I moved up the coast (halfway to San Francisco) and entirely new platform was found.  I fell into Ross Perot’s agenda as it was closer to Browne’s.  In 2000 I moved to Arizona and found again 2 separate LP parties that had been divided up by social issues.  My husband was Treasurer of one of the groups and I asked him to tell me the difference.  By then we had 3 divisions of the LP. 

I can only explain this by the fact that none of them had read and understood the U.S. Constitution and all were eager to Amend the Constitution in many different ways.

If one is against abortions, then they should not ever have unprotected sex.  If these people are against Stem Cell research using embryos, then they can ban the cures.  Jehovah’s witnesses refuse blood transfusion and these religious people can ban being given cures found in the stem cells.  I would recommend that these bigots live in developments that cater to them.  I was not warned that my senior development were frightened of gays and have said many time they don’t want them in their neighborhoods.  I have a gay adult grandson…..

I’m on the Board of Directors of Death with Dignity and was banned from being a board member of another group.  A job I had done well for 4 years until the new President read my web site.

I’ve learned in my long 76 years that we all have freedom to live by our own standards but when we start legislating against other’s standards we are very bad people. 

You see Jefe, I know right from wrong and I handled this abortion issue at home by claiming they were wrong and unacceptable.  I have always known right from wrong and never needed a church or sermon to guide me.  When I take an oath on something I keep it.  No God can forgive me for cheating on any word that I have given because there is no God. 

I feel sorry for the spineless Christians as they are simply ghosts wandering around looking for St. Peter.  I should know better to answer a thread that shows a limited ability to set moral standards for himself.  He is wandering the internet searching for like-minded people. 

We all do this to a certain extent and I found my group in a book club during the time of the Korean War.  It was a group of scientists who spent our lunch times and Saturdays doing good things while we talked and sometimes argued about the books.  I was with the cream of the crop of CALTECH graduates but subject was spiritual things.  By the time the war was over, I saw the world with different eyes.  We may be able to spiritually communicate with other humans but never a ghost that someone calls God.

And I can’t believe that you want children to die just so you can feel good about yourself.

Rattlesnakes and gametes aren’t human.

Pro-life libertarianism is self-consistent.

http://l4l.org/library/abor-rts.html

http://www.democratsforlife.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=23&Itemid=37

Nulono,

If you really feel some need to stop abortions, then offer to adopt, support, and raise every child whose mother chooses to end the pregnancy in her body. Also you will need to support the woman who may not be able to work due to her gravid condition. In other words, if you feel that your choice is more important than their choice, then you should assume all the responsibility that this entails. It is easy to sanctimoniously claim the moral high ground. It is harder to actually assume responsibility.

Nulono - 14 October 2008 05:19 PM

And I can’t believe that you want children to die just so you can feel good about yourself.

Rattlesnakes and gametes aren’t human.

Pro-life libertarianism is self-consistent.

http://l4l.org/library/abor-rts.html

So…humans are more important than other animals?

And I can’t believe that you want children to die just so you can feel good about yourself.

Your the one preaching, not me. Pain, suffering, resources, statics etc. these are the practical things I address in my view, not self righteous fulfillment.

Rattlesnakes and gametes aren’t human.

You never said why humans are special cases. How are all the “living” things that you kill every day different? Don’t say anything about the mind because at conception there is no mind, just cells replicating.

Come on guys, this fellow can’t be more than 12 years old.  I’m out of thread…..I have infants to kill and I’m behind in doing so.