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A facinating scary look into a cult…
Posted: 14 November 2008 09:05 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]  
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Yeah I hear that. Every time a finish a book and think the list has gone down, it seems I add about 5 more. grin

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Posted: 23 November 2008 06:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]  
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On the subject of cults and why people join….I grew up in Provo, Utah as a Mormon. It was as much a culture and lifestyle as a religion, much as living Jewish especially in Israel, it is just the culture. We were raised fairly liberal as far as Mormons go but my brothers and sisters and I all grew up in the same environment with a loving happy childhood but each took something different to adulthood.

I eventually decided to study as much about the church and religion in general to find out if and what I believed. I came to the conclusion it was all bunk no matter how you dressed it up.

I have one sister who is still active Mormon along with my parents. My brother doesn’t care and just doesn’t go anymore and my other sister get caught up in every weird idea, alternative pseudoscience, and idiocy that comes along. She is very “lost” and unhappy with life and has also had her own bouts with drugs and alcohol abuse. She also lacks confidence and coping skills and is always seeking something new and different to put her faith in.

I am no expert by any means but being different and believing in or belonging to something unusual seems to make her feel special. I have an active and fine tuned “bullshit meter” and hers has always been either turned off or not working at full capasity.

I have relatives who are “Nazi Mormon” (fanatics) who won’t let their young children, especially girls, even wear shorts or sleavless shirts for fear of immodesty. These are the people who if the prophet said “jump” they would say “how high” or “where’s the kool aid.”

I think along with a damaged “bullshit meter” some people for whatever reason, are so lacking in self-confidence and feel so overlooked, they will jump to anyone’s tune who makes them feel special and part of something bigger…..even to their demise.

Wow, that was long, sorry….touchy family subject.

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Posted: 25 November 2008 04:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]  
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CindyJayne - 23 November 2008 11:55 PM

On the subject of cults and why people join….I grew up in Provo, Utah as a Mormon.

What do Mormons really say, behind closed doors, about other Christian groups like Baptists and Catholics?

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Posted: 26 November 2008 01:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]  
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CindyJayne - 23 November 2008 11:55 PM

I think along with a damaged “bullshit meter” some people for whatever reason, are so lacking in self-confidence and feel so overlooked, they will jump to anyone’s tune who makes them feel special and part of something bigger…..even to their demise.

 

That was my experience with Christianity when I was 17. I was about to leave high school with no job or college prospects and was terribly depressed and had not self-confidence. I sought council with my sister-in-law, a devout born-again, and was on my way to living a life of grand illusion. After several years, I got tired of the struggle to avoid hell and be “good.” I came to the realization that the bible is just bullshit.

The Jesus of the bible may be a sanitized version of a real person who was probably as much a dick as Michael (Wayne Brent) Tessevar.

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Posted: 26 November 2008 07:41 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]  
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What do Mormons really say, behind closed doors, about other Christian groups like Baptists and Catholics?


Mormons say the same thing about other beliefs that they ALL say: That they are the one and ONLY true church. They feel that Jews are just Mormons who have not accepted Christ YET. They feel that while other religions do some good for others, the LDS religion is the only one that will get them to their ultimate goal, the top of the Celestial Kingdom and Godhood.

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Posted: 26 November 2008 07:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]  
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That was my experience with Christianity when I was 17. I was about to leave high school with no job or college prospects and was terribly depressed and had not self-confidence. I sought council with my sister-in-law, a devout born-again, and was on my way to living a life of grand illusion. After several years, I got tired of the struggle to avoid hell and be “good.” I came to the realization that the bible is just bullshit.

The Jesus of the bible may be a sanitized version of a real person who was probably as much a dick as Michael (Wayne Brent) Tessevar.

I think sometimes life can get pretty lonely and frightening at times. Church offers a sense of belonging and safety even if there is bullshit. While I don’t want to go back, there are things I miss, like the feeling of having a large family to lean on if you need it.

I think it would be nice to have more of a connection with other atheists, agnostice, or freethinkers. It would be nice to get together have a common bond. But, all of us who feel this way tend to be pretty independent so perhaps what I am looking for can’t happen.

I actually thought of forming a type of group like this but unfortunately, atheists are dispised more than anyone and I would probably lose my job. I have two teenage daughters who feel the same way but dare not express their true feelings for fear of losing some friends or being shunned. So, I am a chicken shit and remain somewhat in the “closet.”

You are right about Jesus and the real God of the Bible. Talk about a scary individual. If he moved next door to me I would abandon my home and run for it. I would probably piss him off and mow the grass on Sunday and be put to death.

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Posted: 26 November 2008 10:58 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]  
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Being ostracized and having no local people who share my lack of faith sucks. But it still beats living a lie. I doubt that there are a dozen confessed atheists within 100 miles of me. At the end of the day, it’s nice to respect the person in the mirror. Besides, people who know me rarely say nonsense like, “God will help us to survive despite the low cotton prices.” They quickly learn not to do it again.

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Posted: 27 November 2008 09:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]  
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Beam_Me_Up - 27 November 2008 03:58 AM

Being ostracized and having no local people who share my lack of faith sucks. But it still beats living a lie. I doubt that there are a dozen confessed atheists within 100 miles of me. At the end of the day, it’s nice to respect the person in the mirror. Besides, people who know me rarely say nonsense like, “God will help us to survive despite the low cotton prices.” They quickly learn not to do it again.

I used to work as a manager of a team in a call center. People often brought books in to read at their desk on break or at lunch. Many (who were probably trying to impress others with their faith or witness to them) brought their Bibles to read. One day I had Carl Sagan’s book “Demon Haunted World” on my desk to read to lunch. I was moderately open (translate: too chicken to come out all the way) at the time that I was not a church goer.

Someone was standing at my desk and made the comment “I believe in demons. I believe they are everywhere trying to control everything.”

Stunned, I did not know quite how to reply (and I was trying very hard to not laugh histerically) so I said simply. “I don’t.”

This person then said to me “Well, since you don’t go to church you probably don’t believe in God either.” Then they walked away.

Later that afternoon I was called into see HR because that person had made a formal complaint stating “My book had offended him.” I

I told her “It’s a book by Carl Sagan not freakin Hitler.” She said “It is still offensive to others in the workplace so you should not bring in controversial reading material that offends others.”

I asked her why they were allowed to bring in the Bible and have scripture quotes and pictures of angels at their desks which I find objectionably (that may not be a real word) idiotic? She said their religious freedom was protected but my LACK of a belief wasn’t.

That’s when I knew that as long as I was out in the workplace with believers, I was the minority and had no protection what so ever. If I wanted to not only move up but to keep my jobs where ever I work, I needed to keep somewhat silent and vague so I would not offend the masses. I made the mistake at the new place where I work to have a discussion with someone about the idiocy of the Bible. He said to me before he walked out of the lunckroom “Now that I know how you feel I have a completely different opinion of you.” When he sees me in the lunchroom he says “How are things at the Godless side of the room?”

I am surrounded by Evangelicals who constantly refer to the Lord or being blessed or invite me to their church. I (now being the chicken I am) cower somewhat and just say “I am not much of a church goer.”

I have two teenage daughters who believe as I do. They are wonderful, beautiful, smart, compassionate, free thinking individuals who also keep silent knowing that some of their friends and or friends families would shun them if they know they did not believe. They have a few friends they can be open with but for the most part, they have to be somewhat careful in school classroom discussions about evolution, abortion, gay rights, or other controversial subjects. How sad is that?

I have a skeptic website that I use the name Cindy Jayne on also because they are fearful that some parent they know would recognize me if I used my last name too.

Well, this was long. Sorry for the complete novel here. I guess I will go back to my closet.

Happy Thanksgiving!
Cindy

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Posted: 27 November 2008 01:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]  
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CindyJayne - 27 November 2008 02:58 PM

I used to work as a manager of a team in a call center. People often brought books in to read at their desk on break or at lunch. Many (who were probably trying to impress others with their faith or witness to them) brought their Bibles to read. One day I had Carl Sagan’s book “Demon Haunted World” on my desk to read to lunch. I was moderately open (translate: too chicken to come out all the way) at the time that I was not a church goer.

Someone was standing at my desk and made the comment “I believe in demons. I believe they are everywhere trying to control everything.”

Stunned, I did not know quite how to reply (and I was trying very hard to not laugh histerically) so I said simply. “I don’t.”

This person then said to me “Well, since you don’t go to church you probably don’t believe in God either.” Then they walked away.

Later that afternoon I was called into see HR because that person had made a formal complaint stating “My book had offended him.” I

I told her “It’s a book by Carl Sagan not freakin Hitler.” She said “It is still offensive to others in the workplace so you should not bring in controversial reading material that offends others.”

I asked her why they were allowed to bring in the Bible and have scripture quotes and pictures of angels at their desks which I find objectionably (that may not be a real word) idiotic? She said their religious freedom was protected but my LACK of a belief wasn’t.

At that point you could have contacted the ACLU and sued for big bucks for discrimination.  wink

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Posted: 27 November 2008 02:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]  
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At that point you could have contacted the ACLU and sued for big bucks for discrimination.  wink

I should have huh? Maybe next time. I have promised my girls I will wait until they are out on their own before I make too many waves. Then, they can make their own waves.

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Posted: 27 November 2008 04:14 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]  
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That is really sad, CJ. I live in the part of the Bible belt where the fat butt cheeks are bulging out and rolling over the belt loops. I see that type of discrimination and hatred here as well. I am very fortunate to have a large stature, a sneering personality, and a job that does not have any other applicants. Otherwise, I would have been tarred and feathered years ago. My unfortunate family does get some grief for my outspoken atheism, yet we have a very close and happy home. I hope your situation improves.

Despite the inherent independence of most freethinkers, we must make our voices heard in order to guarantee freedoms and avoid religious motivated carnage.

You probably shouldn’t risk your job; but find a way to document these types of violations so that you can report them to someone outside your company. If your coworkers can have religious texts and icons, you should be allowed to read Sagan. Jeebus H!  It’s a good thing you weren’t reading Dawkins. I know very little about the law; but it seems to me that an employer must either keep the workplace sterile and free of all non work related material, or allow anything that does not violate the standards of the community. I could understand people getting offended by a Penthouse; but not Sagan. Perhaps you should bring The Cosmos and watch it on your laptop.

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Posted: 27 November 2008 08:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]  
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This cult has nothing to do with God and his perfect love. That cult is just the devil trying to make Christians look bad which is what Satan does. The evil one uses the news people and enters their hearts and makes them make up stories that try to make the Holy Bible and God and his people look bad.

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Posted: 28 November 2008 01:52 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]  
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Welcome to the forum Cindy Jayne, my fellow, bull shit detectin’ and self de-programmed mo.
Sorry it took until you were older than 17, but, I understand completely. (I was raised in SLC in the same type of “liberal” mormon household…. although I’m sure it was far more difficult to escape living in Provo!)  Bravo girl!  I know how difficult it must have been.

Where are you living now?

Sorry to hear that the fuckwits used guilt trips and pompous superiority techniques on you when you worked at the “call center.” That was w-r-o-n-g, wrong. (I’d venture to guess that your co-workers at the time would have spelled the word wrong, wrong… and yet they professed offense at you reading Carl Sagan? ...  fuckwits. )

So… I take it you’re a stay-at-home mom now? Me too!

My just-turned-15 son is a proud atheist with friends who are muslim, jehovah witness, catholic, various varieties of “christian,” mormon, and non-theist… perhaps your teen-aged children can experience the same positive reactions that my son does… the key is to not be or act ashamed or scared to speak their mind whilst being a… how shall we put it…. a good citizen and authentic human being.

Cindy Jayne: Church offers a sense of belonging and safety even if there is bullshit. While I don’t want to go back, there are things I miss, like the feeling of having a large family to lean on if you need it.

I know how you feel CJ. But if they truly were as christ-like as they claim—and pretend to be—they wouldn’t shun, (or merely make feel uncomfortable), you and your immediate family simply for disbelieving the BOM and “the church teachings”... to this day (20+ years later, in my case), I have family members that treat me, my immediate fam, and my dad and two brothers (the only ones to wake up to the mo-con-shit), like we’re lost sheep; devil possessed even… they pity, and look down their pious noses at me and my family (and my dad and my two bros) because we called bullshit on their cult/religion.
The only reason you don’t have a large family to lean on any more is because of “them”....  the ones who won’t be nice to you unless you buy into their con-artist created, cow-fuckin’-nonsense-ladled, stinking pie. Give yourself a bit o’ a break… it takes time… eventually, you will have the strength to speak your own truth… a truth not mired in stuporstition and irrationality.

You have family here CJ.

We might not be prone to egg-shell walking or censor-mince-our-words-ship, but we’re here for you and your family.
ii.

[ Edited: 28 November 2008 01:56 AM by isocratic infidel]
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Posted: 28 November 2008 02:05 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]  
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LordofLords - 28 November 2008 01:05 AM

This cult has nothing to do with God and his perfect love. That cult is just the devil trying to make Christians look bad which is what Satan does. The evil one uses the news people and enters their hearts and makes them make up stories that try to make the Holy Bible and God and his people look bad.

You are not the lordoflords newbie, you are the lord of the flying lies.
Mormons, although cultish,  and totally made-up religioustupidification, it is not any less cultish than any other christian cult/religion.
The bible doesn’t need anyone to make up stories to make “god and his people” look bad. The “holy bible” does a good enough job on its own.

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Posted: 28 November 2008 07:34 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]  
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CindyJayne - 27 November 2008 02:58 PM

He said to me before he walked out of the lunchroom “Now that I know how you feel I have a completely different opinion of you.” When he sees me in the lunchroom he says “How are things at the Godless side of the room?”

The first thing that occurred to me as a response was “Quiet over there! I’m trying to keep the Christians oppressed with my Atheist mind powers.” but I probably would have said something like “Are you really having such a hard time accepting that someone you actually know doesn’t agree with your world view? Is your belief system really that fragile?” and if things were to go on “How about we make like adults and each mind our own business today, eh?” or alternatively, if he were really being an ass “How about we pretend one of us isn’t being a mental infant—let’s just make like adults and mind our own business today, eh?”

Actually I feel more compelled to respond that way when someone is being bullied. Otherwise I tend to ignore it as well (though not from a supervisor, I don’t think I’d've been able to let that one go—as a supervisor myself that comes across as nothing short of a betrayal of trust, and as the old ones say down here in the South, I don’t much cotton to that kind of thing). It’s just a personality thing though, which is why I feel compelled to put bullies in their proper place—expose them for the frightened little children they really are (and then, if they’re truly put in their place, which rarely happens in my experience, I’d feel compelled to help the former bully heal and become a better, much happier person ... what can I say).

CindyJayne - 27 November 2008 02:58 PM

I am surrounded by Evangelicals who constantly refer to the Lord or being blessed or invite me to their church. I (now being the chicken I am) cower somewhat and just say “I am not much of a church goer.”

You’re in no way obliged to make any kind of stand. They’re in the wrong, you have no responsibility to fix their bad behavior, so you should only do what you need to in order to minimize the ill effects as much as possible. You’re apparently not “built” to fight or assert yourself in this potentially very risky sense, and that’s perfectly okay. I’m pretty sure the fight’s in you though, and you just don’t find the situation worth the effort to break it out. I think the fight’s in just about everyone. For example, if your girls were treated the way you were (are?) I’m guessing the mama bear would come out, fangs borne and claws extended for some serious arse kicking—eh!?

Welcome, but the way!

Byron

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