Sam Harris

It’s the topic in his book The Science of Good and Evil (book 3 of his Beliefs trilogy).
Much Evolutionary Psychology/Sociology, Game Theory, etc.  He is very readable here.  I recommend it to people who are new to the Skeptic game, and I recommend the whole trilogy emphatically.

Not to say that someone well versed in the subjects won’t learn from reading him, but the one criticism I could ever muster against Shermer (defying my own personal belief bias here) is that he does tend to repeat himself, both verbally and in print, presumably out of fear of being misunderstood on a very key/basic point.  I notice this mostly during his lectures, when he’s saying the same thing from 6 different angles.  Two or 3 are great for illustrating the point, but I do find myself saying, sometimes out loud, “Yes, we get it!  If not now, then never!”.

YMMV

Thanks!  I like Shermer, especially on skepticism and science.  I have that book but haven’t read it yet.

Thanks!  I like Shermer, especially on skepticism and science.  I have that book but haven’t read it yet.

mormovies - 15 August 2012 05:14 PM

And have, in spades.  Protecting the profit margin of companies like Coke, Pepsi, Dole, etc… in Central America, for example, has led to the removal of rights of people living in the area, to the point of removing a democratically elected leader in favour of a despotic one that will play ball with the US.

How did U.S. corporations deprive citizens of rights?

Representatives make an agreement with the government and paramilitary groups.  Take, for example, the Coke bottling plant in Columbia.  That’s exactly how eight consecutive union leaders in a row were assassinated, sometimes right inside the plant.  I’ll let you decide what rights were violated.  I’m thinking the rights protected in various global papers, of which, if not Columbia’s then certainly Canadian and US signatures are on.  Columbia’s own labor laws.  And some sort of basic human right to not get shot because you went to work.

  Did they overthrow a democratic government?

No.  The US would do it for them.  Like they did in Chile in 1970, on behalf of companies like ITT, Pepsi, and Chase Manhattan Bank.

Did citizens of Central America have extensive rights to begin with?

I don’t know.  How extensive need they be to protect you from being murdered on behalf of your employer?

You seem to be pretty bendy in what seems to be an attempt to make it sound ok if you say it just so…

mormovies - 15 August 2012 05:36 PM

Thanks!  I like Shermer, especially on skepticism and science.  I have that book but haven’t read it yet.

Dude, what are you waiting for?

Go put it in the bathroom, right now.

Go.

Of course, getting shot violates individual rights.  I’ll have to look into this.  Usually living standards are raised when new industries open up shop in depressed countries.  I never remember hearing how Central America went from free to tyrannical.  What’s Coke’s motive?  How do they profit?  They sell tons of soft drinks around the world without murdering anyone.  It doesn’t make sense but then again, I’m a skeptic.  I’ll check it out.  Thanks.

mormovies - 15 August 2012 09:46 PM

Of course, getting shot violates individual rights.  I’ll have to look into this.  Usually living standards are raised when new industries open up shop in depressed countries.

Sorta.  The local economy becomes entirely dependent upon that industry, to the point of being referred to as a cargo cult, of a sort.

I never remember hearing how Central America went from free to tyrannical.

Me neither, though I may excuse myself, somewhat, being only 2 years old at the time.  For context, that was the year my sister was born.  Don’t remember that, either.  The puppet was named Augusto Pinochet (sp?) 

What’s Coke’s motive?  How do they profit?  They sell tons of soft drinks around the world without murdering anyone.  It doesn’t make sense but then again, I’m a skeptic.  I’ll check it out.  Thanks.

Money.  And complete control of the labour force.  The day before the execution of a union leader, the hourly factory wage was $3 and change.  The day after, it would go back to $1.  Coke’s response waffled, from claiming it didn’t happen, to saying that it was the bottler’s business, and not theirs.  Precedence had been set in a previous, similar case, that nullified this position.  I think it was against Nestle, who’s bottlers were sucking village wells dry, but I don’t recall for sure.

Sometimes it’s to save money, but not the wages themselves.  Sometimes rights are violated to boost production, as in the case of Dole, which continued to use a pesticide long after the manufacturer, Dow, ceased to sell it, and had issued letters to clients to discontinue its use.  It causes sterility in men.  After using up its stockpile, Dole demanded Dow continue to provide it, citing the contract to do so.  Dow did, after Dole signed an agreement releasing Dow from “future litigation” resulting in its use.

WTF, eh?

Money was awarded to a number of workers that had been exposed - the stuff literally dripping onto them as they worked.  This was from a court in the US set up to hear complaints from alien nationals vs’s international corporations with holdings in the US.