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Evolution takes a beating, live coast to coast!
Posted: 15 March 2005 09:50 AM   [ Ignore ]  
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Boy oh boy, you SHOULD have heard the word today! On the Michael Medvid show, which is broadcast nationwide (AM radio), he spent an hour with a renowned evolutionist (small caps, if you may).

The theory of evolution took a royal beating. Just as I suspected, talking with normal rational human beings (which practically omits academia), evolution was exposed as a fraud. The evolutionist in question tried to make a variety of arguments, all of which were readily shot down by the host and by callers from around the nation. Truly, the Emperor has no cloths (and the Emperor in this case, the theory of evolution) and it took normal rational people of sound mind to point it out to the rest of the nation. Yes, it was exposed for the sillyness that it tis.

The host and the callers were indignant, as they should have been. It takes more faith to believe in evolution (which has many holes and academia has not been able to patch them-they never will) than it does to believe in Intelligent Design.

The poor evolutionist finally resorted to nebulas circular arguments, which made him appear caviler. These petty circular arguments were easy to pick off as his main premise’s were no longer valid.

Being in the trenches on this forum can make one lose sight of the fact that only a small portion of the nation at large actually believes in this dung. It is a theory that is an affront to all the principles that this great nation was founded on: endowed by our Creator, In God we Trust, the 10 commandments (basis for the rule of law), One nation under God, etc., etc., and so on.

Intellectuals, it is time to face the truth. The theory of evolution cannot be reconciled with science. To do so is folly. You should know this in your hearts.

That great and wonderful will come eventually: every knee shall bow and tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.

(we shan’t need discuss evolution anymore, unless there are stand up comedy routines in heaven….)

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Posted: 15 March 2005 11:07 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]  
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Well, all I can say is that when I look around I have a lot of trouble believing that god (notice the small g) could have designed this world, disease, famine, poverty, really a well thought out plan, well executed too. It’s like when I read the Bible, if god meant it to be a teaching device he could have done a better job. Oh and if there is a god and he’s listening; “Thanks for the tsunami, love your work.”

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Posted: 15 March 2005 11:29 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]  
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Blue, if you can’t beat em, insult them? Nice re-direct.

But as long as you are the one bringing it up, allow me to educate you on these issues. All can be explained via a little 3 letter word: sin. If you recall, all was well until man disobeyed God and just like the word says, sin leads to death. However, you still may recall that the original man and woman (Adam and Eve, for those of you who were living on planet mars and just fell in) did however procreate (or how would you be sitting here reading this). So the sin nature was passed on to every living human.

However, not to worry. Though you must pay for your sin nature (and sin leads to death, eternal death), God has provided a magnificent way of escape. Salvation is provided through Christ’s blood shed on the cross. Salvation is a gift and not that of yourselves, lest any man should boast.

(you brought it up, I finished it, now the ball is in your court, turn from your sins and receive the gift of salvation, repent and be baptized for the remission of your sins, you will receive power when filled with the Holy Ghost, then learn all you can about the King of Kings, then go make disciples in all nations…..amen)

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Posted: 15 March 2005 01:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]  
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Blue, if you can’t beat em, insult them? Nice re-direct.

There is a big difference between saying someone is moronic and dangerous, and saying that the ideas they accept are moronic and dangerous. One does not, of necessity, imply the other.

Quite frankly, Champ, it’s difficult to communicate with someone who doesn’t want to listen. If you present a *coherent* examination of a large body of evidence, one that falls within acceptable bounds of scientific discourse, we will give you a fair hearing. That doesn’t mean we will automatically believe you, but we will give what you say consideration. If all you say ultimately boils down to “Believe in the Lord because the Bible says if you don’t, you’ll go to Hell”, we will naturally have difficulty taking you seriously, because that isn’t actually an ARGUMENT. The only reason to take the Bible as literal truth is because the Bible says to, which is no reason at all because it’s circular logic.

Of course, you could be just a troll, in which case we have no obligation to listen AT ALL. If that’s the case, please go away, and leave us godless intellectuals at least one place where we can get away from “God is Great, God is Good, Let Us Spill the Heathen’s Blood”.

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Posted: 15 March 2005 01:33 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]  
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Good answer, Alan.

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Posted: 15 March 2005 02:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]  
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Champ, scientists always lose debates to creationists, especially on moronic shows like medved.  The reason is, the science is not understood by most people, and, unfortunately, the scientific community has not spread the word as well as it should.  And, of course, you folks aren’t listening anyway.

Debates cannot be won, but don’t take heart yet.  The case for evolution is as strong as the case for relativity.  Have you heard of that?  That is part of what makes creationism impossible!  There is a better case for Santa Claus than there is for the xtian god.

No matter how hard you try, or how diligently you and your folks look, no one has ever found a single, solitary, piece of evidence for any of the events in genesis.  It didn’t happen!  On the other hand, there is fossil evidence going back over 6 MILLION years!  It is spotty, but when you get inside 2 MILLION years, the evidence in the fossil record is overwhelming!  The only way you could miss it is by not looking.

You showed your ass with your very first post on this forum, when you raced here with a “glaring error” in the first 18 pages!  Who the hell would pay any attention to you after that, especially those of us who have spent years investigating, and separating truth from myth.  You believe the myth, without proof.  We dismiss the myth, and we have the proof.

Have a good time, enjoy the moment.  Remember one thing:  I am after your children, and your grandchildren.  I will not stand by and let you and yours plunge this country into a new dark age of ignorance.  The Earth is not flat, nor is it the center of the universe.  I am a heretic,  and I am after your kids! 

Pete

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Posted: 15 March 2005 03:23 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]  
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[quote author=“hampsteadpete”]Champ, scientists always lose debates to creationists, especially on moronic shows like medved. 
...
You showed your ass with your very first post on this forum, when you raced here with a “glaring error” in the first 18 pages!  Who the hell would pay any attention to you after that, especially those of us who have spent years investigating, and separating truth from myth.  You believe the myth, without proof.  We dismiss the myth, and we have the proof.

Pete

Pete and all.  The fact is everyone IS paying attention to theChampion and feeding his ferver.  Why do so many of you insist on repsonding to this idiot’s posts.  He isn’t worth the time of day and too much resources are getting used up for no good purpose.  I am asking everyone who thinks they have a clever or knowledgable response to this moron to reconsider.  He is totally incompetent in the reasoning arena.  Your efforts are totaly wasted. He has successfully co-opted this forum, or a good part of it and every time someone responds to him they are just extending an idiotic exchange.

It would be nice to have reasoned discussions re: how can we organize to teach biology and evolution in such a way that the younger generation understands what a scientific theory is.

OK, my $0.02

gman

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Posted: 15 March 2005 03:33 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]  
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You are right, of course, gman, and I said as much in another thread.  I should know better, this was the last time!

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Posted: 15 March 2005 04:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]  
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Sounds to me Champion like you are saying that all of us are sinners (have original sin) because we are decendents of adam and eve, are you suggesting that there is an original sin gene that gets passed down through the generations?  So the only way that the sin might have been stopped is if adam and eve had not procreated?  Or can it be that the act of passing on the sin (copulation itself) is innately sinful, because it might pass on that evil gene? So every time that a man and a woman have sex (procreation possible) it is a sin-full act whether the two are married or not - well in that case if they use contraception or some form of birth control, then they are not sinning, in fact they are doing their utmost to prevent the further creation of original sin.  In conclusion, sexual activity when undertaken with precautions to avoid conception is not really sinful, because it does not attempt to bring more original sin (in the form of innocent infants) into this world.

So why is it again that you funda-mental christians are so against sexual activity?

Bob

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Posted: 15 March 2005 04:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]  
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Champion,

What’s to redirect, you post a manifesto of triumphalism, end of story. I’ve heard the theory of original sin before(no capitals either) and it confuses me. Does this mean that all those that died in the tsunami were sinners or that somehow only sinners died? Are saying that god put disease, famine and poverty on the earth as punishment for the sins of Adam and Eve? And then there’s my situation. I had caring , intelligent parents who raised me with great tenderness. I have a job that I enjoy and it pays me well enough to satisfy my modest needs. I have three lovely, challenging daughters that I adore.  I have great sex several times a week with a woman that I have loved deeply for more than 25 years. In short I have had a great life for 55 years and I don’t even believe in your god let alone worship him. So you can see why the theory of original sin confuses me. Why is your god so good to me when I haven’t bent a knee or confessed a word?

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Posted: 16 March 2005 01:52 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]  
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Alan Slipp, you said:  “please go away, and leave us godless intellectuals at least one place….”  Hmm, I thought the exchange of ideas would be profitable for intellectuals. Also, I thought my thoughts were linear and coherent. I will try to be as such in the future.

hampsteadpete: gimme a break… “science is not understood by most people.” “Science has not spread the word…” Ex-squeeze me? Science has been teaching it to the children since the Scopes monkey trial. Question for you, how come it has not seemed to resonate with the masses?

Also, talking about fossil records, the evidence IS spotty and nothing is proven. Not sure how many people actually agree with you. I think the majority (outside of biologists, intellectuals, and the like) would say that evidence based on fossil records is controversial.

gman: I’m just sharing ideas in the marketplace of ideas. You should not feel threatened, if faith-based ideas are as crazy as you say, nobody in their right mind (save 79% of the country-based on a recent Time magazine poll) would believe a word of it, (hee hee hee-forgive my indiscretion).

CanZen: All I know is that sex is great and God made it that way. However, he threw a cog in the machine! Sex would only be acceptable in the context of marriage. Anything else would be a sin. That was the law. Jesus Christ raised it a notch…“if you think it in your heart, its a sin.” So there you go, all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Sex is a wonderful thing, as long as it is done within the context of marriage.

Blue: So glad you asked. You’ve opened the door to enlightenment, my friend. So many questions/so little time. God created everything perfect and beautiful. When Adam and Eve sinned He placed a curse on the earth and everything became broken and degraded. Although, the curse brought conflict, disease, and death, much of the original beauty can still be seen in God’s creation. It continues to show His power, wisdom and design ability.

Everybody suffered in the tsunami, Christian and non-Christian alike. Life is precious, we should thank God for every day. Because life is fast and life is short. ‘Come now, you who say, “Today or tomorrow we will go to such and such a city, spend a year there, buy and sell, and make a profit”; whereas you do not know what will happen tomorrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapor that appears for a little time and then vanishes away. Instead you ought to say, “If the Lord wills, we shall live and do this or that.” James 4-13-16

Sounds to me like God has blessed you indeed. You may not love him, but he sure loves you, and dearly at that. That is why he has sent so many people in your path, to help steer you to him. But if you won’t listen to them, or to his ministers, or any of the evangelists, or any of the members of the army of God of this generation, then who will you listen to?

He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father’s house, for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’ Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’ “ ‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’  “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’ Luke 29:31

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Posted: 16 March 2005 01:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]  
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[quote author=“gman”]Why do so many of you insist on repsonding to this idiot’s posts.  He isn’t worth the time of day and too much resources are getting used up for no good purpose.

I guess because we think we can get through to him - and you’re right; that, in and of itself, seems to be an irrational proposition. I think the real question is how do we deal with posts like this without a) pretending they aren’t there, or b) giving the poster incentive to go tell his friends how ill treated he was.

Even bigger, how do we deal with people like this IN GENERAL, let alone on any given discussion board? This has been addressed before elsewhere (infidels.org has an article addressing unsolicited e-mails from fundies, I believe). If we are going to find some application of Sam Harris’s theses, it will do us no good to simply ignore the religious right, largely because they likely won’t stand for it.

I don’t really have a clear answer to those questions. What I do know is that this thread has outlived whatever usefulness it originally had (if any at all).

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Posted: 16 March 2005 02:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]  
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[quote author=“gman”]Pete and all.  The fact is everyone IS paying attention to theChampion and feeding his ferver.


I agree completely, but at the same time I do find the apparent compulsion some people have to respond to him interesting. Even the most blatant baiting seems to work very effectively. The respondents have to be aware they’re being manipulated, but still they’re compelled to take the bait—very interesting.

I also have to admit that I find TC’s thought patterns genuinely amusing sometimes—they often remind me of programming loops and errors from Asimov’s robot books, and adding the responses I described above to that just really strikes me as a funny situation.

It reminds me of the Monk episode in which Monk got “trapped” by a kid on a plane who wouldn’t release him from the “Pete and Repeat . . . ” never ending loop/child’s riddle (Pete and Repeat are [somewhere], [something] happens to Pete, so who’s left?). Monk’s extreme OCD wouldn’t let him just stop answering the riddle, and of course every time he did the kid would start right back at the top, just as “requested.” Monk had this tortured, defeated look on his face—he was desperately trying not to continue falling for it, but he just couldn’t pull it off. Finally, when someone comes along and offers him a means of escape, to his great relief, he says in pure exasperation “He’s relentless!”

So, “you guys” remind me of Monk (you know who you are), and quite frankly it’s pretty amusing sometimes.

Byron

[ Edited: 16 March 2005 05:28 AM by ]
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Posted: 16 March 2005 02:29 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]  
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Alan Slipp, you said: “please go away, and leave us godless intellectuals at least one place….” Hmm, I thought the exchange of ideas would be profitable for intellectuals. Also, I thought my thoughts were linear and coherent. I will try to be as such in the future.

The exchange of rational, coherent ideas, yes, which have nothing in common with what I see from “believers” who post on boards like this. There is no standard that I uphold for them that I don’t uphold for myself. I expect myself not to rely on logical fallacies to make a point, and that is precisely what I expect from others.

Case in point: Saying the majority of people believe some proposition, so that proposition is the case is the fallacy of “argumentum ad populum”, or “appeal to the people”. Just because a whole bunch of people think something is true, doesn’t make it so, or even more likely. It simply means that a whole bunch of people think something, no more, no less.

If you can come here and make a case for something (in this case, the Christian faith) without the use of logical fallacy at a bare minimum, then we will consider what you say. If you can’t do that, don’t bother, because we can see right through them.

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Posted: 16 March 2005 05:03 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]  
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Skeptix wrote:

gman wrote:
Why do so many of you insist on repsonding to this idiot’s posts. He isn’t worth the time of day and too much resources are getting used up for no good purpose.

I guess because we think we can get through to him - and you’re right; that, in and of itself, seems to be an irrational proposition. I think the real question is how do we deal with posts like this without a) pretending they aren’t there, or b) giving the poster incentive to go tell his friends how ill treated he was.

My suggestion is that we deal with posts like his by ignoring them.  When someone like this insists on posting some whacko religious nonsense, it is fine to use those statements as examples of whackoness when we are trying to make a point in another thread.  But to respond to the poster directly is just not going to work.  So I’d choose b) above!

g

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Posted: 16 March 2005 05:08 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]  
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Champion,

I’ve been reading the strings you started on this forum and I’ve become quite curious.

WHY did you read Sam’s book???  ...Or did you ever get past the infamous “first seventeen pages”?  How did you learn about the book in the first place?  What motivated you to buy it?


Mark

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