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Posted: 17 July 2007 05:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]  
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[quote author=“BenTrem”]
Karma Kagyu is about direct transmission.
grin
Namaste!!
__{*}__

Good to hear from you.
I spent about 15 years with Trungpa Rinpoche, if you’re familiar with his work. His work! Your signature lines describe it perfectly.
So at this point I’m a refugee from Shambhala, and yet Trungpa is still, in some ways, my guru.

Looking forward to hearing more from you in this rather bracing atmosphere of the Sam Harris Forum.

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Posted: 17 July 2007 10:46 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]  
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Goooood morning!

[quote author=“Pat_Adducci”]I spent about 15 years with Trungpa Rinpoche, if you’re familiar with his work.

heh ... “Cutting Through” put the iron hook of dharma into my heart; that was 1978. Long story/short I was half way through the book within 10 hours of buying it ... 4AM I opened the yellow pages and found Edmonton Soto Zen Priory ... by the end of that day I was a resident.

Fast forward 12 years, I was staff at Gampo. Coupla years later I was soundman/janitor/transcriber at Karma Dzong ... center of the known universe, doncha know.
*grin*

Funny ... haven’t been there for 5 years but last night had a long long dream about a very elaborate event, sorta like the Sakyong’s investiture ... a glorious dream, ayup.

[quote author=“Pat_Adducci”]Your signature lines describe it perfectly.

One reason I came by today was to add attribution ...  Sherab Chodzin Kohn, the mystery man of Shambhala Press. tongue wink

[quote author=“Pat_Adducci”]at this point I’m a refugee from Shambhala

heh ... that’s what the dream was about.
Another member of the lost tribe! huh huh
Actually, FWIW, Khenchen Thrangu R. is my bodhisattva preceptor, and teh Dzogchen Ponlop Rinpoche is my beloved tsawi lama, he who points out “Buddhism isn’t really a religion so much as the science and philosophy of mind” ... and cute as a button he is too! *beam*

[quote author=“Pat_Adducci”]and yet Trungpa is still, in some ways, my guru.

That he is, is existential. The “in some way” is an elaboration.
*giggle*

[quote author=“Pat_Adducci”]Looking forward to hearing more from you in this rather bracing atmosphere of the Sam Harris Forum.

I’m looking forward to it. (Fact is this church-mouse’s only connection is a very unreliable neighborhood WiFi. HeyHo!)

nice to meet you!
Tashi Delek!!

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Posted: 17 July 2007 12:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]  
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[quote author=“Salt Creek
....... like a fig describing the texture of the interior of an ape’s large intestine from the standpoint of already having been digested.

And that is exactly how I felt, along with a chill, reading that Michael Kohn was the source of those lines. We were thrown together in Vienna, not too happy about it, either. Don’t want to get too much into personal history here.
Maybe take this discussion over to the ‘cults’ forum.
The perspective is of the fig which is not quite digested, enough figness left to remember being eaten by the ape…

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Posted: 17 July 2007 12:58 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]  
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[quote author=“Pat_Adducci”]And that is exactly how I felt, along with a chill, reading that Michael Kohn was the source of those lines.

I’m sorry, Pat, but I’m not gathering any information from this report.

Are you under the impression that I would ever be at all interested in petty metaphorical squabbles erupting on the periphery of warfare between roving bands of spiritual ninjas operating under the aegis of various Svengalis?

Are you referring to my lines or BenTrem’s? I was under the impression that my lines were my own, but it is always possible someone else could come up with them, too. Either way, I don’t give a fig.

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Posted: 17 July 2007 06:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]  
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[quote author=“Salt Creek”]Are you referring to my lines or BenTrem’s?

I’m pretty sure Pat was ref’ing my .sig.

But I’m intrigued by the “spiritual ninjas/Svengalis” idea!
I’ve been beavering away at the PTSD I picked up in the early 70s (a truly lousy time to be in the military) and *E.Ma!* have had a couple of key foundational insights. One of them is that I’ve been supressing a profound resentment / loathing against those who enable / indulge the psychopaths among us. (Please believe me, I’ve done the formal study and do not use that term lightly ... nor do I have it confounded with sociopath.) Blithe bliss-ninnies caught up in the light&love; delusion make potent sychophants, regardless of their specific affiliation. It’s just about time we drop the moralistic fragility and adopt a hearty and vigorous appreciation of our social dis-ease.

Jai, jai Hanuman!

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Posted: 18 July 2007 01:38 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]  
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Good of you to add the attribution to the quote, thus addressing as best you can one single small source of confusion in the world.

As for our social “dis-ease”, my experience working around emergencies just informs me that if everything in a particular context is considered an emergency, then everything is still routine.

I will try to parse the rest of what you wrote, but do not promise to succeed to anyone’s satisfaction. “Sycophant” sounds like “psychopath”, and “psychopath” evokes “sociopath”. Read anything on Salman Rushdie’s recent knighthood and you will aim another lens the problem.

Like one of my favorite scholars wrote, “confusion is worse than pure ignorance”. People do not adopt a state of busy confusion voluntarily to gain the good opinion of others via their “work ethic”. They’re not sycophants; they’re just lazy, and busy confusion provides a good cover for their laziness.

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Posted: 18 July 2007 02:15 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]  
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[quote author=“BenTrem”][quote author=“Salt Creek”]Are you referring to my lines or BenTrem’s?

I’m pretty sure Pat was ref’ing my .sig.

Jai, jai Hanuman!

Sorry about that confusing reference. Illumination does sometimes result from odd mixtures, though, don’t you think? Like - was Salt Creek referring to Hanuman in his vivid example of the ape and the fig?

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Posted: 18 July 2007 02:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]  
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[quote author=“Salt Creek”] Like one of my favorite scholars wrote, “confusion is worse than pure ignorance”. People do not adopt a state of busy confusion voluntarily to gain the good opinion of others via their “work ethic”. They’re not sycophants; they’re just lazy, and busy confusion provides a good cover for their laziness.

In your field (I think you are retired?) was there ever any area of inquiry in which you had to accept the opinion of another expert without independently verifying the factual basis of that opinion yourself?  In other words, did you ever accept another person’s opinion as authoritative on any subject without further research? If so, was that a manifestation of laziness on your part, or simply an acknowledgement that you did not have the time, resources and/or ability to delve into that particular subject?  These are serious questions for me and I hope you can give me a response without sarcastically ripping me a new one. Thanks.

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Posted: 18 July 2007 02:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]  
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[quote author=“BenTrem”] Blithe bliss-ninnies caught up in the light&love; delusion make potent sychophants, regardless of their specific affiliation. It’s just about time we drop the moralistic fragility and adopt a hearty and vigorous appreciation of our social dis-ease.

Jai, jai Hanuman!

Bruce, I don’t want your question to get lost, but I also hope BenTrem could go further with the comments I’ve quoted.

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Posted: 31 July 2007 07:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]  
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[quote author=“Bruce Burleson”]These are serious questions for me and I hope you can give me a response without sarcastically ripping me a new one. Thanks.

Sotto voce: Leading.

Though it would seem to dodge the question, I will reply that I always endeavor to distinguish fact from opinion. Honest researchers clearly do the job for you. You cannot always tell when someone is lying to you, or simply withholding the data that do not support the desired “opinion”.

My experience in the courtroom (as a juror, not a defendant or complainant) is that the court does its level best to prevent the presentation of fact in a clear manner.

There’s always a good paper trail for real facts. Do you think I should be overly careful about accepting the details of any particular model for the metabolic pathway of a specified protein? Should this be a matter of, uh, principle? Read what SJ Gould wrote about his terminal cancer prognosis rendered a decade before he actually died. See also: lies, damned lies, and statistics. Does that help you?

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Posted: 01 August 2007 07:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]  
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[quote author=“Salt Creek”]Read what SJ Gould wrote about his terminal cancer prognosis rendered a decade before he actually died. See also: lies, damned lies, and statistics. Does that help you?

Read it**, got the message.  Was hung up on this, and its reiterations:

[quote author=“Stephen Jay Gould”]But match people with the same cancer for age, class, health, socioeconomic status, and, in general, those with positive attitudes, with a strong will and purpose for living, with commitment to struggle, with an active response to aiding their own treatment and not just a passive acceptance of anything doctors say, tend to live longer. A few months later I asked Sir Peter Medawar, my personal scientific guru and a Nobelist in immunology, what the best prescription for success against cancer might be. “A sanguine personality,” he replied.

Better, more recent studies show this is not true.  (The single exception would arguably be “with an active response to aiding their own treatment”.  Anecdotally, I think it’s a help to have physicians in the family and to be able to do some relevant reading yourself.)

** The Median Isn’t the Message

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“I will tell you with the utmost impudence that I esteem much more his Person, than his Works.”

  (Dryden, St. Euremont’s Essays, 1692.)

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Posted: 10 October 2007 09:50 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]  
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I might have a little more respect for Eckankar if 1) they admitted that most of the religions verbage, techniques and the ‘founding gurus’ are all stolen almost completely intact from the Sikh religion, and 2) if their second ‘Divine Hamburger’ hadn’t been removed from office for using Eckankar to further his own personal (vitamin) business. For a while Eckankar became the Amway of New Wave Religions.

The active meditation/visualization techniques of Eckankar did work well for me, and their concept of ‘God’ came closer to my world view than any other religion or belief system I’ve encountered.

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