Sam Harris.org Reader Forum

Free Will

2013-05-15T02:58:33+00:00

If there is no such thing as free will, why do we punish people for committing crimes? Do we not expect people to use their free will to refrain from criminal activity? Why does Sam write books to change people’s minds if they don’t have the free will to change their
minds? Thanks for your responses.

I am now a Jr Member!

2013-05-12T03:57:12+00:00

I am now a Jr Member and am very happy.

charwiz

Historical Jesus

2013-05-11T02:05:51+00:00

Jesus the Jewish Rabi that lived around the 1st of the century, who was crucified by the romans. Did he historically exist? After doing the research, I was shocked to find out as to not only the limited amount of writings, but how far they turn up after the event. The earliest known writings that can be found, are dated 40 years after Jesus death. To add poison to the wound, the only non-Christian historian that most biblical scholars can agree on is Josephus, a Jewish writer that wrote about the history of the Jews. Josephus mentions Jesus twice in his writings one debated and the other known to be….(I forgot the biblical scholar word for it, not forged but added too or changed). The reason why they know it was tampered with, is because it does not match up to what a Jewish Rabi would say about someone. In other words no Jewish Rabi would ever claim that someone was God, or the messiah. Who ever attempted to change that was a fool, because if he would of left it alone would of done more to prove that Jesus actually existed, and would of went a lot farther for his cause. That’s Karma for you. However, somewhere else Josephus gives reference to James brother Jesus and I believe that somewhere he even makes mention to John the Baptist. There are a lot of other writings that mention Jesus, however biblical scholars destroy them for one reason or another and I DO NOT have time to go through them all. I, in the end, believe that a man named Jesus did exist. But this does nothing to prove Christianity. In fact, I believe if Jesus the Jewish Rabi, were to somehow come back to life, he would be horrified as to how the Christians not only what they did in his name, but they claimed him to be GOD!
A good reference for Biblical scholarship for the Atheist would be Bart Ehrman, I watched a lot of his interviews and debates on YouTube…a must see. And I will be buying his books.

charwiz

Endangered Species

2013-05-10T03:44:04+00:00

Religion without reason is an endangered species. It’s only a matter of time. The more people learn through science, the more educated people become, is directly proportional to the confusion non reasoning people have. So in there confusion and as a last resort, they go to the internet, that place where religions go to die. There final resting place. They go to the internet to search frantically for any info on their Religious beliefs, for any way possible that they can equate their lack of reason with their religious views. There they find the apologist lacking, and their unreasonable views… unbecoming. But hope is on the horison. Because eventualy they finally, open their eyes to Reason.

Charwiz

Could There be a Truely Scientific Religion?

2013-05-08T14:41:40+00:00

Could there be a Religion that was rational and scientific?

I ask because I have given it a lot of thought and kicked this idea around for years elsewhere. Not because I am or would like to be religious, but because I understand that not everyone wants to, can, or gets paid to learn stuff all the time - and if they aren’t learning it or doing it - then, my friends, they are BELIEVING in it.
~*~
I teach my students and encourage my peers not to get peeved when people say they “believe” in evolution. To expect everyone’s understanding to be scientific is to misunderstand the way people work completely. People are MORE efficient than science, because of belief. If you don’t like that word then experiment with the ways it is similar to “trust”. When a person demonstrates themselves to be reliable, rational,... right, dependably, then you trust them - and you believe them.

When someone on the bus asks what I do and then asks, “Oh, so you believe in Evolution?” I say “Yeah, but I’ve held the “stuff” in my hands and work with it every day - so its easy to believe in.” You should see how much a difference that makes on their face compared to “I don’t believe anything”. Which is a horribly prickish and by the way completely dishonest statement. As a scientist, I know some science through a practice of science and i know others by believing in other people’s science. Yes they give me good reason to believe until someone else gives me better reasons to change my beliefs.

There is good reason for the uninformed person to believe in evolution and science. The more we tell them, “You can’t believe, you have to be critical and informed and scientific.” The more people we exclude rather than inform.
~*~
What would a rational scientific Religion look like?

Clergy as trained scientists rituals developed and tested for effectiveness: Does the mantra really help you focus on controlling your emotion? Does the coming of age ceremony really help youngsters to manage the transition to adulthood? Rituals of death, birth and marriage - do these things help people manage their thoughts? Does meditation reveal parts of your mind and body your conscious narrative normally shouts over - can it calm you and refocus you?

Is their power/solace/peace in knowing others believe like you do? And are right there to help if you should need it?
~*~
...Good reason to believe…

Now the fundies are against reason and the enlightenment

2013-05-06T21:38:04+00:00

I recall Sam saying that even religious people would be very unlikely to declare themselves against reason and the enlightenment.
But now that has actually happened.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFtXvX9Eoe8

I don’t know whether to laugh or cry, or something else.
I’ll try laughing hysterically so I won’t have to think about it.

I have to admit I desperately need people like “The Four Horsemen” to try to bring some reason to the world, and fight the retardation of the human race, that religion generally seem to bring.
Otherwise I see myself turning to George Carlin like cynicism, and becoming an entropy fan.

Getting the Message out Theists on the tangible benefits of reading Dr. Harris

2013-05-06T19:29:55+00:00

I’m no Steinbeck and new to this particular forum, but what I have noted in my experience as a non-theist in other forums is that people like me have a hard time connecting with theists. I was a Christian true believer at one time, and I can say from my memories of those times in this present moment, that I understand (not agree with) their fear of us. We challenge the very foundation of their beliefs. Now, unlike them, I was always wired to leave faith. My brain could never fully accept the dogma. I always had questions, but didn’t realize those questions would be answered through atheism until I started to realize I was one. There isn’t any information or action that would have made me endure as true believer. I’m getting a bit off track, but what I am trying to get to is that we need a way to bridge the conversation. They are scared and aren’t going to make the first step. I empathize with them from my past experience when I could not grasp atheism and how anyone without god could lead a moral life or felt the need to.

Now to my point: Dr. Harris is a brilliant man and is able to challenge religious beliefs without a full assault that would scare them away.

I started to write a review of Dr. Harris’s work, that I thought would be helpful in getting the word to theists that, his thoughts are worth listening to.

**Please provide me with criticism on the piece, if you think something like this may be good to get the word out to the Christian Nation, and where I may post a piece like this to initiate a response.

“Dr. Sam Harris is one of the most prophetic and inspirational speakers, writers and debaters that I have ever had the fortune to read and listen to. He masters speaking style, the literary word, and gently disarming distinguished debate opponents with his kind wit, logical perfection and meditative style. It is mildly unfortunate that he is labeled as “one of the four horsemen” of New Atheism. His polarization to atheism is most likely due to his penetrating belief in logic, science and the betterment of this world, which religious disconnectedness seems unable to accomplish. His ideals, morals, and positive outlook on his own life and the progression of the human condition are great lessons for all of mankind. Theist and non-theists all have so much they could learn from him. If we were to forget the titles of his books, and look at the content for its potential impacts to our lives and those we love, we could increase our toolbox to live fulfilling lives tenfold. I highly encourage everyone to listen to his speeches and debates and read his books. Please check out his website at http://www.samharris.org/ where, you can find a lion share of his content. Even if you are a religious true believer, there is more to be gained from his words than any I have found in any other writings from this decade. Please take the time, if only to study opposing viewpoints to read Dr. Harris. Just as I, have learned the lessons of Gandhi, Buddha and Jesus of Nazareth as well as the many of the leaders of New Atheism, I encourage you to approach Dr. Harris’s works with an open mind and take from them only what you need for your personal betterment. I would guarantee reading Mr. Harris will be a life changing experience and even if you don’t match with him on all levels of belief, you will be able to able an immense proportion of each work to your own life.”

Sincerely,
Chris Randall

This is Chris, signing off, and reminding you to stay connected and live in the present, for it is truly what we have.

You can find more about me at: http://www.christopher-randall.com (Father, Husband, Humanist, Veteran, Lover of Science, Reason, Nature, Technology Transcendental Experiences, Meditation and Mankind).

Characature of Faith

2013-05-06T01:22:59+00:00

Do we really think a believer today is similar (in the mind) to one in the first century? You could put me on a horse and dress me up as a cowboy but I will never have the mindset of a man on the prairie in the 1880s working his horse and the steers. Faith is a costume today not a uniform. Our real uniform is consumerism, competition, success, pragmatics, science—-all of which makes our mouthing religious dogma “the trick” we play. We can’t get religion into our sinews as it once was where each moment is seen through it; we have evolved into a new uniform. It is over not due to atheism, but due to a very different psychology.

Is Religion really the biggest of our Irrational Enemies?

2013-05-05T20:19:40+00:00

Dr. Harris and others, convinced that Religion is the cause of conflict, might be forgetting that group conflict predates and, in fact, in no small part generated/guided our Evolving Religions in the first place. Our conflict is, as it always was, over the unequal access to resources and status. Rationality is no panacea here, because the love of “self” and distrust of “other” eventually encountered by our ever-expanding nested identities, is rational (in any non-unified global society) and unfailingly generates the exact same conflicts attributed exclusively in many circles to irrational religious belief. People use group membership to elevate their personal grievances to large-scale conflict. When they can muster Coalitions of Nation States to achieve their goals, they do; when they can only muster the fanatical side of whatever Religion they belong to - then that’s what they work with. Even slight influences of dogma and irrationality in the Nation-State can be more deadly tools than more severe forms in less powerful entities. Group conflict would not resolve in a less-religious world because of a lack of religious irrationality… it would resolve the same way every other conflict resolves - someone would win.
~*~
TLDR: Religions do not cause conflict, people do. Our biggest irrational enemy then is ourselves and our distrust of potential collaborators despite mutual dependency and impending disaster.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________
Note: I am fairly new to the writings of Dr. Harris, but I have read several of his books, articles, blogs and listened to most of his debates. Not only do I value his honest and aggressive attack on irrationality and his unfailing championing of science as a tool left unused for edifying our moral and spiritual systems, but I applaud his rhetorical skill and the quality of his argument - which rarely if ever dips to red herring and straw men strategies often thrown at him by detractors.
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Excerpts from Dr. Harris’ “Killing the Buddha”:
http://www.shambhalasun.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2903&Itemid=244
~*~
“Incompatible religious doctrines have balkanized our world into separate moral communities, and these divisions have become a continuous source of bloodshed. Indeed, religion is as much a living spring of violence today as it has been at any time in the past. The recent conflicts in Palestine (Jews vs. Muslims), the Balkans (Orthodox Serbians vs. Catholic Croatians; Orthodox Serbians vs. Bosnian and Albanian Muslims), Northern Ireland (Protestants vs. Catholics), Kashmir (Muslims vs. Hindus), Sudan (Muslims vs. Christians and animists), Nigeria (Muslims vs. Christians), Ethiopia and Eritrea (Muslims vs. Christians), Sri Lanka (Sinhalese Buddhists vs. Tamil Hindus), Indonesia (Muslims vs. Timorese Christians), Iran and Iraq (Shiite vs. Sunni Muslims), and the Caucasus (Orthodox Russians vs. Chechen Muslims; Muslim Azerbaijanis vs. Catholic and Orthodox Armenians) are merely a few cases in point. These are places where religion has been the explicit cause of literally millions of deaths in recent decades.”
~*~
“Therefore, one of the greatest challenges facing civilization in the twenty-first century is for human beings to learn to speak about their deepest personal concerns—about ethics, spiritual experience, and the inevitability of human suffering—in ways that are not flagrantly irrational. Nothing stands in the way of this project more than the respect we accord religious faith. While there is no guarantee that rational people will always agree, the irrational are certain to be divided by their dogmas.”

Humor exposes the illogical aspects of religion

2013-05-01T03:44:28+00:00

Here is a funny comedy video/song about parents explaining religion to their daughter. Hopefully it brightens your day!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40uyvImgsQ0