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something may be intervening
Posted: 11 November 2008 06:40 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 61 ]  
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Relax Iso. It’s only fuckwittery at work. Fuckwittery is intervening. It will be OK. IS will go away, either mad or just away.

You cannot convince nor argue with a fuckwit. But of course you know this.

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Posted: 11 November 2008 07:40 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 62 ]  
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http://www.samharris.org/forum/viewreply/131918/

burt - 29 October 2008 03:46 AM

There is lots of confusion around the term religion in this forum.  Most posters seem to think that it refers to Christianity, Islam, and the other official religions, and tend to interpret these at their most fundamentalist level.  That ignores all sorts of other aspects of human behavior that could be classified as religious, mystical, or spiritual.  Teiner brings this up pretty well.  It isn’t religion itself that is wired in, but rather the tendency to govern thought through stories, to seek meaning, and to prefer some story even if it is contradictory to the uncertainty of no story.  People who try to characterize religion in simplistic terms are simply projecting a single facet that they happen to be most sensitive to.

The word “meaning” in this context [I applied bold font to it myself] refers to that which, along with a shiny coin, you can use to obtain a brightly-colored gumball. It is that subjective “sense of well-being” we are talking about locating everywhere and nowhere.

While waiting for death, seeking “meaning” is certainly a fine pastime. It’s a word like “important”. In fact, if you find “meaning”, you will think it “important”. For maximum “meaning”, don’t forget to involve the appropriate anatomy.

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Posted: 11 November 2008 08:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 63 ]  
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And all this time I thought the PC muscle was Bill Clintons brain. Damn am I lost!  rolleyes

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‘Every reflecting mind must acknowledge that there is no proof of the existence of a Deity’

‘If ignorance of nature gave birth to gods, knowledge of nature destroys them’

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Posted: 11 November 2008 08:44 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 64 ]  
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Salt Creek - 11 November 2008 12:40 PM

While waiting for death, seeking “meaning” is certainly a fine pastime. It’s a word like “important”. In fact, if you find “meaning”, you will think it “important”. For maximum “meaning”, don’t forget to involve the appropriate anatomy.

Unfortunately, the cranial vault (all too often) gets lodged in the clutches of the levator ani. While we all can occasionally fall victim to this situation when we become hyperflexible, some choose to get comfortable with the warmth and the odor and never leave the position. This makes it difficult to have any meaningful communication or ambulation. Nevertheless, it provides a chuckle for those who happen to see the situation in passing.

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Real honesty is accepting the theories that best explain the actual data even if those explanations contradict our cherished beliefs.-Scotty

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Posted: 11 November 2008 01:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 65 ]  
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isocratic infidel - 11 November 2008 06:06 AM

The Beam explained this subjective experience in physiological terms, but you ignored his explanation, making much ado about his using the word, “likely.” You are looking for a reason to disregard the physiological facts ImmediateS. This is not being open minded, this is an example of being close-minded to the facts in favor of your own pet interpretation of your own wishful delusion that “something is intervening” in your life and mind.

You are correct, his use of the word “likely” was revealing.  I am not looking for a reason to disregard the psysiological fact.  I am simply staying open minded to other possibilities when such possibilities have not been ruled out.  Why?  In the name of potential scientific progress.

isocratic infidel - 11 November 2008 06:06 AM

Unbeliever also pointed out the futileness of using sweeping generalizations of terms such as ‘something,’ ‘nothing,’ ‘everything,’ and ‘anything.’ And yet you totally ignored this, under your subjective notion that your idea about ‘something intervening’ is somehow rational and ‘everyone’ else is just close-minded; as if you are the king or queen of open-mindedness because you refuse to accept facts.

I’ve never said for sure that I felt something was intervening, I just feel it is a slim possibility, given all that we don’t know about the universe, and given the subjective nature of the evidence at hand.

isocratic infidel - 11 November 2008 06:06 AM

You pose questions that you think would be scientific, but answering questions would determine zero scientifically.

The questions may not have determined anything scientifically, but they would have been a good place to start.  Unfortunately, people in this forum are not as interested in asking questions as they are making condescending remarks and personal insults, which I am not appreciative of.

isocratic infidel - 11 November 2008 06:06 AM

IF you really want to find out what’s going on when you experience those special little chills, you would have to place yourself into one of those body scanners (sorry folks, can’t recall the “official” name of these devices) and have them scan your entire body until you experience one of those chills to actually “see” what’s going on when you experience one of them.

This is a good idea, isocratic infidel.  However, I have the chill up my spine so rarely, that it might not be practical.  Nevertheless, I would be willing to participate in this type of study if I could afford it.

isocratic infidel - 11 November 2008 06:06 AM

Then, and only then, would you have something to scientifically analyze. If some sort of chemical/electrical activity in the spine and the brain can be discerned while you claim you are experiencing “the chill”  then your paranormal explanation would fly out the mystical window. If not, then you MIGHT have some evidence for your notion that “something is intervening.”

Thank you for confirming that we cannot rule out that there just MIGHT be something may be intervening.  I look forward to the type of analysis you mentioned above.  Then, and only then, can we rule out that something is intervening when I get the chill up my spine from no apparent outside stimulus.

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Posted: 11 November 2008 02:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 66 ]  
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Immediate Suppression - 11 November 2008 06:49 PM

I am simply staying open minded to other possibilities when such possibilities have not been ruled out.  Why?  In the name of potential scientific progress.

I think your brand of open-mindedness is tainted with wishful thinking.  You’ve latched on to the possibility that is the farthest thing from a probability.  The demise of university parapsychology departments reveals something about the scientific progress possible in the area of “something intervening.”

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Posted: 11 November 2008 02:41 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 67 ]  
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Yeah, I guess we cannot rule out a flying spaghetti monster either but dadgumitt, there just ain’t no evidence of such a thang.

IS does not understand that you do not need to rule out things that were never considered in the first place, because they are baseless speculation.

I really do not think he understands much about this and has not done his homework.

Now having said that, I think humans are living on the Sun. prove me wrong. Cannot rule it out!

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‘If ignorance of nature gave birth to gods, knowledge of nature destroys them’

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Posted: 11 November 2008 02:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 68 ]  
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Aaron - 11 November 2008 07:25 PM
Immediate Suppression - 11 November 2008 06:49 PM

I am simply staying open minded to other possibilities when such possibilities have not been ruled out.  Why?  In the name of potential scientific progress.

I think your brand of open-mindedness is tainted with wishful thinking.  You’ve latched on to the possibility that is the farthest thing from a probability.

It is not wishful thinking, because I am not wishful in any way for something to be intervening.

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Please call me Immediate

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Posted: 11 November 2008 03:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 69 ]  
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isocratic infidel - 11 November 2008 06:06 AM

This thread has gone from drinking yeast piss (BMU) to graphic interpretations of the sensations of bowel movements (MifM)

No no no.  Sometimes my sense of well-being (which I localize in my viscera rather than my spine) has no outside stimuli at all, just like Immediate’s!!!

It’s just my deep sense of scientific responsibility to investigate completely (e.g. answering Immediate’s thoughtful questions) which forced me to disclose, to this cruel cruel forum, that sometimes the feeling of well-being is associated with a BM.

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Posted: 11 November 2008 03:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 70 ]  
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M is for Malapert - 11 November 2008 08:12 PM

It’s just my deep sense of scientific responsibility to investigate completely (e.g. answering Immediate’s thoughtful questions) which forced me to disclose, to this cruel cruel forum, that sometimes the feeling of well-being is associated with a BM.

No shit? My irony alarm is firing in full alert status right now.

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Real honesty is accepting the theories that best explain the actual data even if those explanations contradict our cherished beliefs.-Scotty

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Posted: 11 November 2008 05:40 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 71 ]  
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Immediate Suppression - 11 November 2008 07:49 PM
Aaron - 11 November 2008 07:25 PM
Immediate Suppression - 11 November 2008 06:49 PM

I am simply staying open minded to other possibilities when such possibilities have not been ruled out.  Why?  In the name of potential scientific progress.

I think your brand of open-mindedness is tainted with wishful thinking.  You’ve latched on to the possibility that is the farthest thing from a probability.

It is not wishful thinking, because I am not wishful in any way for something to be intervening.

Surely you did not pull “something may be intervening” out of thin air, did you?  There’s too much of a precedent to deny the influence of the deluded mass’s wishful thinking, even if you yourself do not call it such.

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Posted: 11 November 2008 10:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 72 ]  
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Aaron - 11 November 2008 10:40 PM
Immediate Suppression - 11 November 2008 07:49 PM
Aaron - 11 November 2008 07:25 PM
Immediate Suppression - 11 November 2008 06:49 PM

I am simply staying open minded to other possibilities when such possibilities have not been ruled out.  Why?  In the name of potential scientific progress.

I think your brand of open-mindedness is tainted with wishful thinking.  You’ve latched on to the possibility that is the farthest thing from a probability.

It is not wishful thinking, because I am not wishful in any way for something to be intervening.

Surely you did not pull “something may be intervening” out of thin air, did you?

I am not the O.P., in case you didn’t notice.  I used that phrase because that is the phrase that the O.P. used.  I simply responded to the thread, sharing a personal experience I thought some might be interested in.  Perhaps it is not the best way to describe what I am referring to, interpretations referring to things we may not as of yet understand tend to be difficult to describe.  Darwin might understand what I mean.

Aaron - 11 November 2008 10:40 PM

There’s too much of a precedent to deny the influence of the deluded mass’s wishful thinking, even if you yourself do not call it such.

There certainly is a precedent, that is certain.  But I do not have certainty in an afterlife, do not believe in any type of deity, am anti-religious, and consider myself a freethinker.  Susan Jacoby is one of my favorite authors, to give you a perspective of where I come from.  This thread is under the New Age Belief category, which has no legitimacy in my opinion.  I’m rational, but I also don’t rule out alternative ideas, as long as they don’t involve religion and seem somewhat remotely possible from the sliver of a perspective which humans currently hold in terms of viewing what is actually going on in the universe.  We don’t know it all yet.  Several others have admitted this on this thread, yet have a difficult time acknowledging it when examining my alternative ideas which have not been extensively studied or ruled out. 

I’ve decided that “chill up the spine” isn’t a good way to describe what I am experiencing.  It will for now on be referred to as “electro-spiritual pulse”, so as not to be so easily and wrongly confused with the more common “chill up the spine.”

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Posted: 11 November 2008 11:00 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 73 ]  
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Immediate Suppression - 12 November 2008 03:35 AM
Aaron - 11 November 2008 10:40 PM
Immediate Suppression - 11 November 2008 07:49 PM
Aaron - 11 November 2008 07:25 PM
Immediate Suppression - 11 November 2008 06:49 PM

I am simply staying open minded to other possibilities when such possibilities have not been ruled out.  Why?  In the name of potential scientific progress.

I think your brand of open-mindedness is tainted with wishful thinking.  You’ve latched on to the possibility that is the farthest thing from a probability.

It is not wishful thinking, because I am not wishful in any way for something to be intervening.

Surely you did not pull “something may be intervening” out of thin air, did you?

I am not the O.P., in case you didn’t notice.

Oops, sorry.

Aaron - 11 November 2008 10:40 PM

There’s too much of a precedent to deny the influence of the deluded mass’s wishful thinking, even if you yourself do not call it such.

There certainly is a precedent, that is certain.  But I do not have certainty in an afterlife, do not believe in any type of deity, am anti-religious, and consider myself a freethinker.  Susan Jacoby is one of my favorite authors, to give you a perspective of where I come from.  This thread is under the New Age Belief category, which has no legitimacy in my opinion.  I’m rational, but I also don’t rule out alternative ideas, as long as they don’t involve religion and seem somewhat remotely possible from the sliver of a perspective which humans currently hold in terms of viewing what is actually going on in the universe.  We don’t know it all yet.  Several others have admitted this on this thread, yet have a difficult time acknowledging it when examining my alternative ideas which have not been extensively studied or ruled out.

What apparatus would you propose to study your ideas?

I’ve decided that “chill up the spine” isn’t a good way to describe what I am experiencing.  It will for now on be referred to as “electro-spiritual pulse”, so as not to be so easily and wrongly confused with the more common “chill up the spine.”

How do you define “spiritual”? With what apparatus do you measure something spiritual, which is in opposition to something physical?  You seem to be creeping into religious territory here.

[ Edited: 11 November 2008 11:06 PM by Aaron]
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Posted: 12 November 2008 06:52 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 74 ]  
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McCreason - 11 November 2008 07:41 PM

Yeah, I guess we cannot rule out a flying spaghetti monster either but dadgumitt, there just ain’t no evidence of such a thang.

IS does not understand that you do not need to rule out things that were never considered in the first place, because they are baseless speculation.

I really do not think he understands much about this and has not done his homework.

Good post. The “something may be intervening” concept is simply the creationism rationale in New Age garb. “We can’t explain something scientifically, so there MUST be something transcendental or supernatural involved.” That’s much more than simply not ruling out remote possibilities, and it’s much more than baseless speculation. It’s a huge assumptive leap. With phenomena that appear unexplainable, it’s not a crisis if we don’t have the answer, and it’s intellectually irresponsible to make up an answer.

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Posted: 12 November 2008 07:09 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 75 ]  
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‘Good post. The “something may be intervening” concept is simply the creationism rationale in New Age garb. “We can’t explain something scientifically, so there MUST be something transcendental or supernatural involved.” That’s much more than simply not ruling out remote possibilities, and it’s much more than baseless speculation. It’s a huge assumptive leap. With phenomena that appear unexplainable, it’s not a crisis if we don’t have the answer, and it’s intellectually irresponsible to make up an answer’

Thats a better response Carsto, and said much more thoroughly and eloquently than my own.

The ‘argument from incredulity’ has not held water for centuries now. IS either ignores rationalization or he is ignorant of it.

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