Sam Harris Believes In God
Posted: 19 October 2010 08:16 AM   [ Ignore ]  
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Which leads to the question rooted ultimately in intellectual honesty…..why can’t we all, Christian, Atheist, Muslim, Fourth-Day Adventist, whatever, just admit “we don’t know”? Where does the stubbornness come from that urges us to argue a point ad infinitum when neither side has enough empirical evidence to support their thesis absolutely?

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Posted: 19 October 2010 09:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]  
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I suggest that you do not understand the “atheist thesis”.

There are many posts here to help you sort it out.

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Posted: 19 October 2010 10:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]  
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Your post suggests that you have some sort of insight into the unknown that I do not. Why don’t you explain to me in simple terms what seems to be so obvious to you.

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Posted: 19 October 2010 04:33 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]  
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Your post suggests that you have some sort of insight into the unknown that I do not.

No, it doesn’t, hence my original comment.

Why don’t you explain to me in simple terms what seems to be so obvious to you.

… that you do not understand the “atheist thesis”.

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Posted: 19 October 2010 06:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]  
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I understand the concept of atheism being the “default” option for most non-believers. What I sometimes have an issue with are atheists who are so firmly entrenched in their own certitude that they begin to resemble the opposition. They cease being scientists at that point and stop asking questions. That particular condition sounds a lot like “faith” to me. What I was referring to in my original post was Sam’s intellectual honesty. Though a non-believer he still searches for spiritual answers, or more accurately, whether anything like that can be explored. :-D

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Posted: 19 October 2010 09:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]  
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I am pretty firmly entrenched in the notion that Jehovah does not exist. Virtual certitude. That is one type of atheism.

As to the existence of universal creator, I don’t know and I don’t care. I don’t think things would look much different to me from here on earth either way. That too is atheism but only because there is no theism involved. Nor any certainty.

Some are certain about both, but mostly not. This forum hosts all persuasions of atheism.

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Posted: 20 October 2010 05:45 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]  
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ch5563 - 19 October 2010 10:44 PM

I understand the concept of atheism being the “default” option for most non-believers. What I sometimes have an issue with are atheists who are so firmly entrenched in their own certitude that they begin to resemble the opposition. They cease being scientists at that point and stop asking questions. That particular condition sounds a lot like “faith” to me. What I was referring to in my original post was Sam’s intellectual honesty. Though a non-believer he still searches for spiritual answers, or more accurately, whether anything like that can be explored. :-D


What’s normally perceived as faith-like is actually just having jettisoned the give the god question far more credence than it warrants aspect of our socialization. In fact the concept of gods is incoherent. We’re just socialized to lend it merit by default. It’s not really there, we’re just taught from day one to think it is.

I meditate and find there’s a profound connection between people, and I’m an atheist who is virtually certain that no gods exist, largely because, as I said, the concept itself is fatally flawed, making gods as “real” as any other fictional character, only far less plausible than damn near all others.

I can elaborate on this later if you like (or hopefully I can just refer you to another post in which I did so ... one of many), but that’s the basis upon which at least some of us form this apparent certitude that no gods actually exist.

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“We say, ‘Love your brother…’ We don’t say it really, but… Well we don’t literally say it. We don’t really, literally mean it. No, we don’t believe it either, but… But that message should be clear.”—David St. Hubbins

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Posted: 20 October 2010 05:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]  
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ch5563:
The question “Why can’t we all… just admit ‘we don’t know’?” does not seem to me the ultimate in intellectual honesty.  In fact, it sounds like an abdication of any intellectual inquiry at all.  With regard to uncertainty about God/god(s), we are not all on the same page.

About 40% of Americans are certain that the Bible is a true account of the origins, history, and future of the entire cosmos.  These people base their political agenda on this text: criminalization of abortion, birth control, homosexuality; and the abolition of goverment programs such as Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid, and all programs that replace trust in their God with trust in human systems.

Why do I believe that science shows there is no god?  For one, the biological sphere of life on earth is one big food chain.  Second, this eat and be eaten drama is played out against a background of natural disasters like floods and volcanic eruptions and violent storms.  Am I certain that I am right about God/god(s)?

The Christianity that I was raised in and professed most of my adult life teaches that I will go to hell and be tormented for eternity if I turn from the triune God of my former faith.  But I am so convinced of the absence of this judgmental presence in the universe (by having read Sam’s books and those of the other Four Horsemen and friends), that I live now without fear or expectations of what might happen when I die.

Also, ch5563, critics of the famous contemporary atheists are the ones who try to disparage them by claiming they are as fundamentalist and hidebound as believers.
Yours for rational thought and civil discourse,
Starfire

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Posted: 28 November 2010 04:22 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]  
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Why do I believe that science shows there is no god?  For one, the biological sphere of life on earth is one big food chain.  Second, this eat and be eaten drama is played out against a background of natural disasters like floods and volcanic eruptions and violent storms.  Am I certain that I am right about God/god(s)?

According to this logic, we may as well all just kill each other and do what we want to do.  I mean, what you’re saying is that because bad things happen on earth there can be no good God, or, for that matter, there can be no good.  I say that this logic leads us to the conclusion that there can be no good for a couple of reasons.  First of all, you’ve taken out the moral agent (God).  You have said that God can not exist because bad things happen on earth, and if God doesn’t exist, and He is the one that has dictated to us to be moral beings (which I believe He is), then there can be no real justification for being good, and there can really be no good or evil for that matter.  After the moral agent is removed, all that’s left is people’s opinions.  As pastor Douglas Wilson puts it in the film Collision, atheists believe that God doesn’t exist, and they’re ticked off at Him for doing so.  If you don’t believe in God, then you can’t blame Him for anything, otherwise, you’re living by a double standard.  However, if we are going to blame God, then we have to play completely by His rules and look closely at the world that He has created, how it was originally created (perfect), how it was corrupted by sin, and how natural disasters now happen because of the corruption of sin.  Also, as parents, we often times discipline our children by doing “bad” things to them (spanking, grounding, etc.).  But this doesn’t make us bad parents because we discipline our children.  On the contrary, we would be bad parents if we just let our kids run around and give their every desire over to them.  So just because bad things happen in the world does not mean that a good God can not exist.

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Posted: 17 December 2010 02:38 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]  
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That is some impressive theological psychobabble.  If i were hit in the head with a bat thirty times it could possibly make sense.

Who in the hell claims to be an atheist that is “mad at god”?  Really, who?

Are you able to accept that if you were conceived in Afghanistan, you would be equally brainwashed in Islam?  Simple geography dictates your faith, is that at all rattling to you?  If you were born in Sweden, you might actually form your own opinions based in reality. 
Have you stoned any atheists lately? or is that part of the bible you don’t adhere to via the pick and choose methods of moderate Christianity?

Have fun representing the morals of the Bronze age.

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