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The Problem of Islam
Posted: 06 June 2008 12:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 46 ]  
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It seems that perhaps your eyes, like your heart, has become blind as well.  Otherwise, I don’t know how else to explain your overlooking of the links I have provided above that respond sufficiently to Luxenberg.  All the best.

Fine “Scientists” that want to tell me archangels are true, lol.

PS: Luxenberg is an Arab Christian just to give you some perspective.

Interesting, how do you know?

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“We may be confused about the distinction between tolerance and the refusal of evaluation, thinking that tolerance of others requires us not to evaluate what they do.”
Martha Nussbaum
  —Cultivating Humanity

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Posted: 06 June 2008 05:53 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 47 ]  
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Mel Olontha - 06 June 2008 04:59 PM

It seems that perhaps your eyes, like your heart, has become blind as well.  Otherwise, I don’t know how else to explain your overlooking of the links I have provided above that respond sufficiently to Luxenberg.  All the best.

Fine “Scientists” that want to tell me archangels are true, lol.

If, according to you, the believers in God discussed in the links below cannot be counted as scientists, then maybe your definitions are mixed up.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/23/national/23believers.html?_r=1&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1212797807-YbG4E70/HKWFYyAi5H6x4A&oref=slogin

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2003/sep/04/science.research

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24669748/

http://education.guardian.co.uk/higher/sciences/story/0,12243,1164894,00.html

PS: Luxenberg is an Arab Christian just to give you some perspective.

Interesting, how do you know?

My apologies, Luxenberg is apparently a pen name, and that he is an Arab Christian is a only a theory put forth by some, although, it would make sense if you read the various reviews of his work in the links I provided.

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Posted: 20 June 2008 09:14 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 48 ]  
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Is Sam being too hard on Islam in this Huffington Post piece?

In my opinion: Nope

He’s just being honest and blunt.

Somehow I let this article slip by my eyes for a while and I just read the piece last night.

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Posted: 22 June 2008 08:48 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 49 ]  
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entheogensmurf - 21 June 2008 01:14 AM

Is Sam being too hard on Islam in this Huffington Post piece?

In my opinion: Nope

He’s just being honest and blunt.

Somehow I let this article slip by my eyes for a while and I just read the piece last night.

Rather Sam is being honest and blunt in revealing his ignorance about Islam.

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Posted: 22 June 2008 06:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 50 ]  
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Jack Shooter - 22 June 2008 12:48 PM
entheogensmurf - 21 June 2008 01:14 AM

Is Sam being too hard on Islam in this Huffington Post piece?

In my opinion: Nope

He’s just being honest and blunt.

Somehow I let this article slip by my eyes for a while and I just read the piece last night.

Rather Sam is being honest and blunt in revealing his ignorance about Islam.

Jack
There you go again with your blanket, unsupported, ignorance accusations again. If you contend that Sam is incorrect, please quote the incorrect statements and provide corrections. Oh, I forgot, you don’t have the time.

Stay Well
Wot

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Posted: 23 June 2008 05:47 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 51 ]  
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Wotansson - 22 June 2008 10:08 PM
Jack Shooter - 22 June 2008 12:48 PM
entheogensmurf - 21 June 2008 01:14 AM

Is Sam being too hard on Islam in this Huffington Post piece?

In my opinion: Nope

He’s just being honest and blunt.

Somehow I let this article slip by my eyes for a while and I just read the piece last night.

Rather Sam is being honest and blunt in revealing his ignorance about Islam.

Jack
There you go again with your blanket, unsupported, ignorance accusations again. If you contend that Sam is incorrect, please quote the incorrect statements and provide corrections. Oh, I forgot, you don’t have the time.

Stay Well
Wot

Okay. Do you agree that Sam has said that the majority of Muslims support terrorism?  Yes or no?

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Posted: 24 June 2008 09:17 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 52 ]  
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Jack Shooter - 23 June 2008 09:47 PM
Wotansson - 22 June 2008 10:08 PM
Jack Shooter - 22 June 2008 12:48 PM
entheogensmurf - 21 June 2008 01:14 AM

Is Sam being too hard on Islam in this Huffington Post piece?

In my opinion: Nope

He’s just being honest and blunt.

Somehow I let this article slip by my eyes for a while and I just read the piece last night.

Rather Sam is being honest and blunt in revealing his ignorance about Islam.

Jack
There you go again with your blanket, unsupported, ignorance accusations again. If you contend that Sam is incorrect, please quote the incorrect statements and provide corrections. Oh, I forgot, you don’t have the time.

Stay Well
Wot

Okay. Do you agree that Sam has said that the majority of Muslims support terrorism?  Yes or no?

Okay what? You made the accusation and the burden is on you to support it!

Wot

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Posted: 27 June 2008 10:32 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 53 ]  
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Wotansson - 24 June 2008 01:17 PM
Jack Shooter - 23 June 2008 09:47 PM
Wotansson - 22 June 2008 10:08 PM
Jack Shooter - 22 June 2008 12:48 PM
entheogensmurf - 21 June 2008 01:14 AM

Is Sam being too hard on Islam in this Huffington Post piece?

In my opinion: Nope

He’s just being honest and blunt.

Somehow I let this article slip by my eyes for a while and I just read the piece last night.

Rather Sam is being honest and blunt in revealing his ignorance about Islam.

Jack
There you go again with your blanket, unsupported, ignorance accusations again. If you contend that Sam is incorrect, please quote the incorrect statements and provide corrections. Oh, I forgot, you don’t have the time.

Stay Well
Wot

Okay. Do you agree that Sam has said that the majority of Muslims support terrorism?  Yes or no?

Okay what? You made the accusation and the burden is on you to support it!

Wot

Fine.

Read: The End of Liberalism? By Sam Harris.

The truth is that there is every reason to believe that a terrifying number of the world’s Muslims now view all political and moral questions in terms of their affiliation with Islam. This leads them to rally to the cause of other Muslims no matter how sociopathic their behavior. This benighted religious solidarity may be the greatest problem facing civilization and yet it is regularly misconstrued, ignored or obfuscated by liberals.

Read the whole article here: http://www.samharris.org/site/full_text/the-end-of-liberalism/

And now, here is the truth about what Muslim attitudes towards terrorism: Around 7 % of Muslims condone terrorist acts, and for political reasons only, not religious ones.  Does 7% of Muslims who are acting more in line with their political thinking, rather than their religion, sound like a terrifying number to you? 

Sam Harris’ entire chapter on Islam is based on such rediculous premises.

See here:

http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0517/p12s01-wogi.html
http://www.thestar.com/News/article/443558

[ Edited: 27 June 2008 10:34 AM by Jack Shooter]
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Posted: 28 June 2008 05:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 54 ]  
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Jack Shooter - 27 June 2008 02:32 PM
Wotansson - 24 June 2008 01:17 PM
Jack Shooter - 23 June 2008 09:47 PM
Wotansson - 22 June 2008 10:08 PM
Jack Shooter - 22 June 2008 12:48 PM
entheogensmurf - 21 June 2008 01:14 AM

Is Sam being too hard on Islam in this Huffington Post piece?

In my opinion: Nope

He’s just being honest and blunt.

Somehow I let this article slip by my eyes for a while and I just read the piece last night.

Rather Sam is being honest and blunt in revealing his ignorance about Islam.

Jack
There you go again with your blanket, unsupported, ignorance accusations again. If you contend that Sam is incorrect, please quote the incorrect statements and provide corrections. Oh, I forgot, you don’t have the time.

Stay Well
Wot

Okay. Do you agree that Sam has said that the majority of Muslims support terrorism?  Yes or no?

Okay what? You made the accusation and the burden is on you to support it!

Wot

Fine.

Read: The End of Liberalism? By Sam Harris.

The truth is that there is every reason to believe that a terrifying number of the world’s Muslims now view all political and moral questions in terms of their affiliation with Islam. This leads them to rally to the cause of other Muslims no matter how sociopathic their behavior. This benighted religious solidarity may be the greatest problem facing civilization and yet it is regularly misconstrued, ignored or obfuscated by liberals.

Read the whole article here: http://www.samharris.org/site/full_text/the-end-of-liberalism/

And now, here is the truth about what Muslim attitudes towards terrorism: Around 7 % of Muslims condone terrorist acts, and for political reasons only, not religious ones.  Does 7% of Muslims who are acting more in line with their political thinking, rather than their religion, sound like a terrifying number to you? 

Sam Harris’ entire chapter on Islam is based on such rediculous premises.

See here:

http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0517/p12s01-wogi.html
http://www.thestar.com/News/article/443558

First off, you fail to support your assertion that Sam believes or states, that the majority of Muslims support terrorism. There is no such statement in what you quote from Sam. He does say that an alarming number support terrorism in your quote.
Secondly, there seems to be considerable support for the notion of theocratic Islamic republics in the Muslim world including from yourself. What then is the distinction between political and religious reasons?
You would do well to read and understand Sam’s writings concerning the credibility and support given to the terrorists and radicals by the religious moderates.
Now if we assume that you are correct in stating that only 7% of Muslims support terrorism, let us see if this constitutes an alarming number. If 7% of the American population, which is largely Christian, supported terrorist acts against Muslims would you be alarmed or at least concerned? Would it be important if the motivation was political or religious?
I continue to be impressed that following the events of 9/11, no great Islamic leaders came forward to take the leadership in unequivocally condemning these acts. Where is the leadership for your claimed 93%?
I do believe that tolerance and understand are paramount virtues and have an important place in humanist thinking. This is just not the place given the facts and acts.


Stay Well
Wot

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Posted: 28 June 2008 07:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 55 ]  
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Wotansson - 28 June 2008 09:49 AM
Jack Shooter - 27 June 2008 02:32 PM
Wotansson - 24 June 2008 01:17 PM
Jack Shooter - 23 June 2008 09:47 PM
Wotansson - 22 June 2008 10:08 PM
Jack Shooter - 22 June 2008 12:48 PM
entheogensmurf - 21 June 2008 01:14 AM

Is Sam being too hard on Islam in this Huffington Post piece?

In my opinion: Nope

He’s just being honest and blunt.

Somehow I let this article slip by my eyes for a while and I just read the piece last night.

Rather Sam is being honest and blunt in revealing his ignorance about Islam.

Jack
There you go again with your blanket, unsupported, ignorance accusations again. If you contend that Sam is incorrect, please quote the incorrect statements and provide corrections. Oh, I forgot, you don’t have the time.

Stay Well
Wot

Okay. Do you agree that Sam has said that the majority of Muslims support terrorism?  Yes or no?

Okay what? You made the accusation and the burden is on you to support it!

Wot

Fine.

Read: The End of Liberalism? By Sam Harris.

The truth is that there is every reason to believe that a terrifying number of the world’s Muslims now view all political and moral questions in terms of their affiliation with Islam. This leads them to rally to the cause of other Muslims no matter how sociopathic their behavior. This benighted religious solidarity may be the greatest problem facing civilization and yet it is regularly misconstrued, ignored or obfuscated by liberals.

Read the whole article here: http://www.samharris.org/site/full_text/the-end-of-liberalism/

And now, here is the truth about what Muslim attitudes towards terrorism: Around 7 % of Muslims condone terrorist acts, and for political reasons only, not religious ones.  Does 7% of Muslims who are acting more in line with their political thinking, rather than their religion, sound like a terrifying number to you? 

Sam Harris’ entire chapter on Islam is based on such rediculous premises.

See here:

http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0517/p12s01-wogi.html
http://www.thestar.com/News/article/443558

First off, you fail to support your assertion that Sam believes or states, that the majority of Muslims support terrorism. There is no such statement in what you quote from Sam. He does say that an alarming number support terrorism in your quote.
Secondly, there seems to be considerable support for the notion of theocratic Islamic republics in the Muslim world including from yourself. What then is the distinction between political and religious reasons?
You would do well to read and understand Sam’s writings concerning the credibility and support given to the terrorists and radicals by the religious moderates.
Now if we assume that you are correct in stating that only 7% of Muslims support terrorism, let us see if this constitutes an alarming number. If 7% of the American population, which is largely Christian, supported terrorist acts against Muslims would you be alarmed or at least concerned? Would it be important if the motivation was political or religious?
I continue to be impressed that following the events of 9/11, no great Islamic leaders came forward to take the leadership in unequivocally condemning these acts. Where is the leadership for your claimed 93%?
I do believe that tolerance and understand are paramount virtues and have an important place in humanist thinking. This is just not the place given the facts and acts.


Stay Well
Wot

Hold on here.  Harris didn’t say an “alarming number”, he said a “terrifying number”.  Either way, such experessions are what we refer to as euphemisms.  Harris himself often complains about the taboo surrounding the criticism of religion, and particularly Islam.  I presume that if there was no “deal breaker with Islam” as Harris says there is in his interview with O’Riley, Harris would be even more open about his contempt for the majority or even all Muslims, instead of covering them up with euphemisms.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GExMLKOuySA

Now, in any case, I don’t know about you, but when someone says that a “terrifying number” of a certain type of people are out to get you, I get the impression that I need to be concerned about anyone I meet who happens to be from this group.  But then again, Sam Harris tends to go back and forth on his views, hence the need for him to dedicate pages of statements clarifying what he meant when he said blah, blah, blah.  In the end, Harris comes across as a fear spreading war mongerer to anyone who has an ounce of discernment.

http://video.google.ca/videosearch?q=Sam+Harris&hl=en&sitesearch;=#q=Sam Harris&hl=en&sitesearch;=&start=0

In the debate between Harris and Arslan, see from 43:30 onwards.

As to your continuing to be impressed by the ‘fact’ that no great Islamic leaders have come forward to condemn 9/11 in particular and terrorism in general, perhaps you need to stop looking to CNN and FOX news to inform your worldview.

I’ve mentioned dozens of Muslim scholars that have condemned these acts.  Why such condemnations are not aired on the television and radio shows that capture your attention is a question you need to ask the institutions that bring you the news.

Shaykh Hamza Yusuf in particular is one such spokesperson, someone who as I’ve said before, would undo Harris in a debate with no problem:

http://video.google.ca/videosearch?q=Hamza+Yusuf+and+September+11&hl=en&sitesearch;=#

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Posted: 28 June 2008 11:35 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 56 ]  
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Jack

In your link to Yusuf, he says nothing whatever about 9/11 so you latest smokescreen is false again. He does however say some good things. So again, where is the condemnation of 9/11 by a Muslim leader? A leader is defined as someone with a following.

Wot

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Posted: 28 June 2008 12:01 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 57 ]  
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Jack said:

Now, in any case, I don’t know about you, but when someone says that a “terrifying number” of a certain type of people are out to get you, I get the impression that I need to be concerned about anyone I meet who happens to be from this group.  But then again, Sam Harris tends to go back and forth on his views, hence the need for him to dedicate pages of statements clarifying what he meant when he said blah, blah, blah.  In the end, Harris comes across as a fear spreading war mongerer to anyone who has an ounce of discernment.

http://video.google.ca/videosearch?q=Sam+Harris&hl=en&sitesearch;=#q=Sam Harris&hl=en&sitesearch;=&start=0

In the debate between Harris and Arslan, see from 43:30 onwards.

I assume by Arslan assume you mean Raza Aslan. But in the 1 1/2 hour monologue by Sam, Raza is nowhere to be found. Another smokescreen?

Stay Well
Wot

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Posted: 28 June 2008 01:29 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 58 ]  
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Wotansson - 28 June 2008 04:01 PM

Jack said:

Now, in any case, I don’t know about you, but when someone says that a “terrifying number” of a certain type of people are out to get you, I get the impression that I need to be concerned about anyone I meet who happens to be from this group.  But then again, Sam Harris tends to go back and forth on his views, hence the need for him to dedicate pages of statements clarifying what he meant when he said blah, blah, blah.  In the end, Harris comes across as a fear spreading war mongerer to anyone who has an ounce of discernment.

http://video.google.ca/videosearch?q=Sam+Harris&hl=en&sitesearch;=#q=Sam Harris&hl=en&sitesearch;=&start=0

In the debate between Harris and Arslan, see from 43:30 onwards.

I assume by Arslan assume you mean Raza Aslan. But in the 1 1/2 hour monologue by Sam, Raza is nowhere to be found. Another smokescreen?

Stay Well
Wot

Yes, Raza Aslan.  I don’t know why the link isn’t working properly.  Anyway, feel free to Google it… it’s not hard to find.  So no, not another smokescreen.  Why would you say that anyway when my response provides ample evidence for my claim regarding Sam Harris, despite referring to that specific video?  Is it that hard for you to face the facts?  And you asked me to grow up?  Where is your maturity if you can’t accept the truth of a thing when it comes to you?

All the best.

[ Edited: 28 June 2008 01:49 PM by Jack Shooter]
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Posted: 28 June 2008 01:47 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 59 ]  
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Wotansson - 28 June 2008 03:35 PM

Jack

In your link to Yusuf, he says nothing whatever about 9/11 so you latest smokescreen is false again. He does however say some good things. So again, where is the condemnation of 9/11 by a Muslim leader? A leader is defined as someone with a following.

Wot

Fine.  Here: http://www.uga.edu/islam/hamza.html  That should be sufficient proof.  If you need more, feel free to go through Hamza Yusuf’s lectures and articles. Be careful, I am afraid that if you listen to more of Hamza Yusuf you might eventually become Muslim.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/talking_point/islam_west/09_09_03/html/thewindow.html

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Posted: 28 June 2008 01:48 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 60 ]  
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