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‘To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticise.’

 
Anika.kalender
 
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Anika.kalender
Total Posts:  66
Joined  02-12-2016
 
 
 
03 December 2016 11:52
 
June - 30 November 2016 02:10 PM

You cannot spit in this forum without hitting a, know what is best for the rest of us, intellectual elitist of western persuasion embedded in an ideology of wishful thinking. 

Nazism,  never bothered to conceal its evil bent, as straight up fascism,  for all the world to see.  Western left-wing academia elitists embracing the Marxist/Leninist gospel, do not permit criticism of their ideology.  Preaching liberation of the oppressed, love, peace and equality they are more adept at concealing their evil face from the masses, while ignoring facts.  So far, no tasty omelet has resulted from all the egg breaking, and our future does not appear we’ve learned from history.

Wow, strong language. But, what is your point? I think this thread is about freedom of speech and whether this is suppressed by Jews. At least, this is how I understand this sentence:

“But, when it comes to the Jews, any critique, scrutiny or mere suggestion of impropriety, in any context whatsoever, it is met with responses that render the “SHUT IT DOWN!” meme a patented proof of holy writ!”

I think there is a clear tactic to ward off critique by crying antisemite, racist,... This tactic is used all too often and the accusation of antisemitism is basically an ad hominem attack that cannot be refuted. If you say, oh but i have jewish friends, then the response is. Oh yeah, every antisemite knows one good jew.

For example Deborah Lipstadt. She wrote a book called “Denying the holocaust”, in which she claimed that anyone who doesn’t believe in the holocaust in spite of all the evidence must be an antisemite. Isn’t that bigotry? How does she know that everybody who doesn’t believe in the holocaust, is motivated by antisemitism? By the way a movie about her has recently been released, in which she is celebrated.

But this is just suppression of free speech by smearing people. Several countries have passed laws, which outlaw expression of controversial opinions on the holocaust and these laws have indeed been passed on behalf of Jewish lobbies.

Does anyone think that this is a problem?

 
dzikas
 
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dzikas
Total Posts:  12
Joined  05-10-2013
 
 
 
04 December 2016 05:48
 

I for one am completely convinced by the mountains of evidence that the Holocaust happened much the way that mainstream scholars, and journalists—and victims have claimed.
It was a horror and shit-show of epic proportions. The citizens of the world should never forget, and there is still plenty yet to study and understand.
Denialism is and has been harshly sanctioned (penalized) in some parts of the world, as an expression of hate-speech or hate-mongering. It’s a tricky line to maintain the freedoms of speech and denialist/radical/extremist positions.
We must allow such speech to be sanctioned (officially allowed), and let it be sanctioned (penalized) only organically via more speech.

 
 
Anika.kalender
 
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Anika.kalender
Total Posts:  66
Joined  02-12-2016
 
 
 
04 December 2016 06:36
 

“Denialism is and has been harshly sanctioned (penalized) in some parts of the world, as an expression of hate-speech or hate-mongering.”

Imagine someone who hasn’t seen the mountain of irrefutable evidence that you have! Would this person express hatred if he doubted the narrative? I don’t think so.

If people have doubts, then just present the evidence. There is no reason in my mind to punish them for their ignorance.

“It’s a tricky line to maintain the freedoms of speech and denialist/radical/extremist positions.
We must allow such speech to be sanctioned (officially allowed), and let it be sanctioned (penalized) only organically via more speech.”

I’m not sure what you mean. Do holocaust deniers have freedom of speech? Are you in favour of getting rid of anti holocaust denial laws?

 
dzikas
 
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dzikas
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Joined  05-10-2013
 
 
 
04 December 2016 07:02
 

There are no anti-(holocaust)denialist laws in the US—as far as I’m aware. I understand that they exist in Germany and perhaps France and elsewhere. I am agnostic whether these laws have been good for those respective societies. Counter-factuals being rather a sticky wicket.
But in principle, I am for unfettered free speech.
Who are these outspoken holocaust denialists that don’t have “access” to the evidence??

 
 
Anika.kalender
 
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Anika.kalender
Total Posts:  66
Joined  02-12-2016
 
 
 
04 December 2016 08:26
 
dzikas - 04 December 2016 07:02 AM

...
Who are these outspoken holocaust denialists that don’t have “access” to the evidence??

If you want to know the outspoken holocaust denialists, then you should probably look for them on the internet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial#Notable_Holocaust_deniers

The major platform appears to be codoh, committee for open debate on the holocaust.

http://codoh.com/

You can contact them and show them the evidence if you like.

 

[ Edited: 04 December 2016 08:38 by Anika.kalender]
 
Anika.kalender
 
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Anika.kalender
Total Posts:  66
Joined  02-12-2016
 
 
 
19 December 2016 04:00
 
Anika.kalender - 03 December 2016 11:52 AM

... For example Deborah Lipstadt. She wrote a book called “Denying the holocaust”, in which she claimed that anyone who doesn’t believe in the holocaust in spite of all the evidence must be an antisemite. Isn’t that bigotry? How does she know that everybody who doesn’t believe in the holocaust, is motivated by antisemitism? By the way a movie about her has recently been released, in which she is celebrated.

But this is just suppression of free speech by smearing people. Several countries have passed laws, which outlaw expression of controversial opinions on the holocaust and these laws have indeed been passed on behalf of Jewish lobbies.

Does anyone think that this is a problem?

By the way, Mrs. Lipstadt recently advocated media censorship of the “alt right”, because the “alt right”, whatever that means?, are equivalent to “holocaust deniers”. Here is the source:

http://codoh.com/library/document/4183/

Let me quote:

“When the interviewer, Lakshmi Singh, objects that the Alt Right have the right of free speech. Lipstadt responds:

  “I’m not calling for their silencing, because I believe in free speech. I don’t want politicians deciding what we can and cannot say. But free speech and giving someone a platform are two separate things. Free speech means the government can’t tell you what to say. Free speech doesn’t mean the media’s obligated to put you on and give you access. The airwaves are limited and the media controls that and has to do it responsibly.”

The irony in Lipstadt ‘s initial claim that she believes in free speech becomes apparent as she proceeds to clarify that she does not believe in allowing the marketplace of ideas to function; the public, in her view, cannot be trusted to sort things out. She wants public perception of the Alt Right to be managed, not through official censorship by the government, but with denial of a “platform,” or in this case with biased coverage, unofficially mandated through organized Jewish pressure. This is Deborah Lipstadt’s idea of free speech…”

I don’t think anyone, including jews, can be exempt from criticism. You can see how Mrs. Lipstadt’s urge to censor people starts to spread into more and more topics. She readily accuses all kinds of people of being haters, fascists and racists without any kind of evidence. Thus, she is merely projecting her own way of thinking onto her imagined enemies.

 
brandon davis
 
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brandon davis
Total Posts:  22
Joined  01-03-2017
 
 
 
02 March 2017 06:03
 

i’m dreadfully sorry if this response is overly oblique, but…

i always wondered why Job(e) wasn’t permitted to look back
(almost like Narcissus in the Underworld, no?)
lest he be destroyed…

well, i’ve been thinking about that lately
as my girlfriend is leaving me for my acting strangely and unpredictably
(Grandiosity+Religiosity=“hypomania” at [P=1] i suppose lol)
and i have no money to my name
and i am being Booted from my apt for requesting symmetrical decision-theory
and i can’t find a job because nobody offers me concrete credibility
so i will likely end up literally at the local YMCA
and perhaps even some orwellian-named psychiatric hospital
(depending on who gets their hands on me first…)

it’s a bit like Alice and the Ma’at-guarded keyhole:
the keyhole is calling, and it offers the wei
but you must pack infinitely light for the journey
and you must be
a) lighter than an ostrich feather
b) smaller than a keyhole
to pass through

well like literally here goes nothing lol
Cheers
-b

 

 
Dumaya
 
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Dumaya
Total Posts:  124
Joined  04-05-2017
 
 
 
03 September 2017 22:09
 

>evoking “The Holocaust™”

Ah!  Nary has there been a more over-availed crutch.  It should be granted its own “Godwin’s Law” -type attribution… The irony being, that with each evocation, the louder the chorus of disgust at the abuse of said tactic becomes and, indeed, scepticism of its [claim’s] veracity increases.  In this sense, one might call it the “Shaoh Paradox”...(?)  Or would that just be the “Streisand Effect” donning a kippah…?

Anecdote:
In a discussion some time ago, relating to the Israel-Palestine malaise (et al.), a Jewish person once told me (*paraphrased), “If you want the Jews gone, just leave them to themselves.  They’re far more efficient at killing each other, than anyone else could ever hope to be!”

 
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