The Scenery of the Fundamental Ground

 
unsmoked
 
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10 March 2017 16:03
 

“Fundamentally, this great light is there with each and every person right where they stand - empty clear through, spiritually aware, all-pervasive, it is called the scenery of the fundamental ground.”  -  Zen Master Yuanwu

(quoted from the book, ‘ZEN LETTERS - Teachings of Yuanwu’  -  translated by J.C. Cleary and Thomas Cleary)  https://www.amazon.com/Zen-Letters-Teachings-J-C-Cleary/dp/1570627037

“Zen Letters presents the teachings of the great Chinese master Yuanwu (1063-1135) in direct person-to-person lessons, intimately revealing the inner workings of the psychology of enlightenment. These teachings are drawn from letters written by Yuanwu to various fellow teachers, disciples, and lay students-to women as well as men, to people with families and worldly careers as well as monks and nuns, to advanced adepts as well as beginning students. A key figure of Zen history, Yuanwu is best known as the author of The Blue Cliff Record. His letters, here in English for the first time, are among the treasures of Zen literature.”  (quoted from Amazon site)

 
 
EN
 
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10 March 2017 19:34
 

Unsmoked is preaching again.

 
GAD
 
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10 March 2017 22:40
 
EN - 10 March 2017 07:34 PM

Unsmoked is preaching again.

At least his preaching doesn’t tell people to kill other people or condemn them to hell.

 
 
EN
 
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EN
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11 March 2017 05:31
 
GAD - 10 March 2017 10:40 PM
EN - 10 March 2017 07:34 PM

Unsmoked is preaching again.

At least his preaching doesn’t tell people to kill other people or condemn them to hell.

Doesn’t have to - makes them want to kill themselves.

 
GAD
 
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11 March 2017 09:10
 
EN - 11 March 2017 05:31 AM
GAD - 10 March 2017 10:40 PM
EN - 10 March 2017 07:34 PM

Unsmoked is preaching again.

At least his preaching doesn’t tell people to kill other people or condemn them to hell.

Doesn’t have to - makes them want to kill themselves.

OK, that was good.

 
 
EN
 
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EN
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11 March 2017 13:05
 
GAD - 11 March 2017 09:10 AM
EN - 11 March 2017 05:31 AM
GAD - 10 March 2017 10:40 PM
EN - 10 March 2017 07:34 PM

Unsmoked is preaching again.

At least his preaching doesn’t tell people to kill other people or condemn them to hell.

Doesn’t have to - makes them want to kill themselves.

OK, that was good.

Thanks.

 
unsmoked
 
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11 March 2017 15:52
 
GAD - 10 March 2017 10:40 PM
EN - 10 March 2017 07:34 PM

Unsmoked is preaching again.

At least his preaching doesn’t tell people to kill other people or condemn them to hell.

The Seattle Kingdome opened in 1976, and was demolished in 2000.  Although I was in town from time to time during those 24 years, I was never in that arena . . . have no idea what it was like.  Why go someplace where the events, the game doesn’t interest you?

Christianity interests me.  I was born immersed in that culture and childhood conditioning.  As a young adult I had potent Jesus dreams.  I can guess what EN is talking about.  I can guess at the power and beauty of the ‘experience’ he hints at.  I can guess at its lasting flavor and effect.  I can guess why it can’t be spelled out so everyone can appreciate it.

Whatever you say, I don’t call it preaching.  Fighting to save nature along the Rio Grande is a great cause.  It’s some kind of genuine passion, an urge to share something beautiful . . . the Texas landscape, or Jesus refusing to recant and retreat .

Yuanwu’s scenery of the fundamental ground is a momentary verbal flash.  If it doesn’t illuminate anything for you it was a dud flashbulb - a ball high and outside.  Because of his provincial upbringing Jesus might also have dismissed Yuanwu - some dude from the Orient.  A rookie.

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS693US693&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=seattle+kingdome+implosion&*

 

 
 
NL.
 
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15 March 2017 17:59
 
unsmoked - 10 March 2017 04:03 PM

“Fundamentally, this great light is there with each and every person right where they stand - empty clear through, spiritually aware, all-pervasive, it is called the scenery of the fundamental ground.”  -  Zen Master Yuanwu


I’m still thrown by the seemingly dualistic overlay of Zen practice and Zen culture. Unlike Dzogchen, which, so far as I know, is associated largely with peaceable societies, Zen has produced a lot of martial arts and warriors (Now there is a koan that drives me insane - when eastern martial artists talk about what to do to ‘win’ a fight. I have very little frame of reference for that word in an eastern paradigm. It’s pretty much scrubbed from the textbook, in a good way. What the heck does it mean to ‘win’ something in eastern-speak? Isn’t that pretty much impossible? What does ‘winning’ a fight mean in any, well, meaningful sense in that culture, then?)


Seemingly the two have a very similar core - let’s skip the small talk, cross-training, prep, and all that, and dive straight to the core of emptiness. And yet the outcomes have been remarkably different, which makes me curious about Zen philosophy and where it diverges there - (or if it does… differences could have been due to cultural factors, after all.)

[ Edited: 15 March 2017 18:02 by NL.]
 
 
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16 March 2017 12:16
 
NL. - 15 March 2017 05:59 PM
unsmoked - 10 March 2017 04:03 PM

“Fundamentally, this great light is there with each and every person right where they stand - empty clear through, spiritually aware, all-pervasive, it is called the scenery of the fundamental ground.”  -  Zen Master Yuanwu


I’m still thrown by the seemingly dualistic overlay of Zen practice and Zen culture . . .

Seemingly the two have a very similar core - let’s skip the small talk, cross-training, prep, and all that, and dive straight to the core of emptiness. And yet . . .)

And yet, before diving . . .

 
 
NL.
 
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16 March 2017 13:21
 
unsmoked - 16 March 2017 12:16 PM

And yet, before diving . . .


Being Zen doesn’t mean you stand mute and cease to utilize analytical thought 24/7. For all you know I dive deep into the heart of emptiness every afternoon, (and for all I know you do as well - commenting on another’s spiritual life is usually a futile pursuit). That’s neither here nor there regarding my post.

 
 
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17 March 2017 11:15
 
NL. - 16 March 2017 01:21 PM
unsmoked - 16 March 2017 12:16 PM

And yet, before diving . . .


Being Zen doesn’t mean you stand mute and cease to utilize analytical thought 24/7. For all you know I dive deep into the heart of emptiness every afternoon, (and for all I know you do as well - commenting on another’s spiritual life is usually a futile pursuit). That’s neither here nor there regarding my post.

A preacher was visiting the Thoreau household (circa 1850), probably to discuss helping a runaway slave reach Canada.  At the dinner table, aware of H.D.‘s unorthodox views, the minister said, “I’m going to dive into Henry’s innermost depths!”  Thoreau put his fork down.  “I trust you will not strike your head on the bottom.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underground_Railroad  (in which the Thoreau household was active)