some words from Germany

 
goedselhoeg
 
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goedselhoeg
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15 July 2017 16:10
 

As much as I appreciate this podcast, I find the title and some of the content quite alarmist. I am german and live in the south-west of my country. Last year we as a country took 800 000 refugees, and the south-western part had more than his share. In my town of 25 000 people we had roundabout 500 refugees - and nearly nothing ever happened. There has been a slight increase of bodily harm, because of disputes among refugees. But this was mostly due to the living conditions they where forced into, beeing packed into a hall with 200 people without privacy and nothing to do the whole day. As the housing situation is easing of there are no more reports of assaults.
Shure there are problems with refugees, but this is not a unique situation for us. In the 1990s our former cancelor Helmut Kohl took in way more than one million russian-germans (people from russia with german ancestors). On the paper those where (mostly) christian germans, but in reality they had a hard time to integrate into a modern liberal society. And some still have. In average they tend more to conservative and right wing political parties, have more patriarchic worldviews and less sympathy for womens- or LGBT rights. But they didn’t change the course of our society - some days ago our parliament voted for full marriage equality for homosexuals.
I am not blue eyed with respect to the integration of many muslims into our society. There have been and will be serious incidents that are in part connected to the religion of the refugees. But to blame everything only on religion ist to onedimensional for me. Take the New Years Eve incidents in Cologne. The police was not prepared and there have been sexual assaults, mostly of north african young men. This incident was in the newspapers for weeks and even made its way to the US.
But the state reacted as he should, the police investigated, the justice did its work and the next year the authorities where perpared.
Take on the other hand the Octoberfest in Munich. Every year in the two weeks of the big party there is a significant rise in sexual assault and rape in Munich. But noone ever talks about that. Maybe because it would be bad for the marketing and because it has nothing to do with refugees or migrants. But it has a lot to do with the combination of young men and a lot of alcohol (as in Cologne).
No society could take every year 1% of immigrants and stay the same and if 2017 would have had the same numbers as 2016 there would have been realy big problems in Germany but even this would not have been primarily due to religion. Integrating one million (mostly muslim) refugees (in Germany) is a great challenge for us, but the end of Europe is not at hand.
I am more concerned about the end of the United States of America as we know it. Considering Trump, the Republican Party, christian fundamentalism, science scepticism… But maybe I got a wrong perspective form my side of the Atlantic (at least I hope so).

 
Jan_CAN
 
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Jan_CAN
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15 July 2017 16:47
 

Thank you for giving your point of view, goedselhoeg.

 
 
TheEuropean
 
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TheEuropean
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18 August 2017 11:26
 

Good post. Im also living in Germany. I generally think Sam needs to get deeply experienced in another open society like ours in order to make progress with his thoughts. 

PS do you have any Podcast suggestions for me. German or English. The quality of Sam’s is a high bar.

 
bigredfutbol
 
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bigredfutbol
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18 August 2017 11:34
 
goedselhoeg - 15 July 2017 04:10 PM

As much as I appreciate this podcast, I find the title and some of the content quite alarmist. I am german and live in the south-west of my country. Last year we as a country took 800 000 refugees, and the south-western part had more than his share. In my town of 25 000 people we had roundabout 500 refugees - and nearly nothing ever happened. There has been a slight increase of bodily harm, because of disputes among refugees. But this was mostly due to the living conditions they where forced into, beeing packed into a hall with 200 people without privacy and nothing to do the whole day. As the housing situation is easing of there are no more reports of assaults.
Shure there are problems with refugees, but this is not a unique situation for us. In the 1990s our former cancelor Helmut Kohl took in way more than one million russian-germans (people from russia with german ancestors). On the paper those where (mostly) christian germans, but in reality they had a hard time to integrate into a modern liberal society. And some still have. In average they tend more to conservative and right wing political parties, have more patriarchic worldviews and less sympathy for womens- or LGBT rights. But they didn’t change the course of our society - some days ago our parliament voted for full marriage equality for homosexuals.
I am not blue eyed with respect to the integration of many muslims into our society. There have been and will be serious incidents that are in part connected to the religion of the refugees. But to blame everything only on religion ist to onedimensional for me. Take the New Years Eve incidents in Cologne. The police was not prepared and there have been sexual assaults, mostly of north african young men. This incident was in the newspapers for weeks and even made its way to the US.
But the state reacted as he should, the police investigated, the justice did its work and the next year the authorities where perpared.
Take on the other hand the Octoberfest in Munich. Every year in the two weeks of the big party there is a significant rise in sexual assault and rape in Munich. But noone ever talks about that. Maybe because it would be bad for the marketing and because it has nothing to do with refugees or migrants. But it has a lot to do with the combination of young men and a lot of alcohol (as in Cologne).
No society could take every year 1% of immigrants and stay the same and if 2017 would have had the same numbers as 2016 there would have been realy big problems in Germany but even this would not have been primarily due to religion. Integrating one million (mostly muslim) refugees (in Germany) is a great challenge for us, but the end of Europe is not at hand.
I am more concerned about the end of the United States of America as we know it. Considering Trump, the Republican Party, christian fundamentalism, science scepticism… But maybe I got a wrong perspective form my side of the Atlantic (at least I hope so).

TheEuropean - 18 August 2017 11:26 AM

Good post. Im also living in Germany. I generally think Sam needs to get deeply experienced in another open society like ours in order to make progress with his thoughts. 

I have European friends in several different countries on the continent, plus the UK. I’m always struck by the contrast between their perspective versus the often apocalyptic rhetoric coming from some sectors here in the States. Thanks for sharing your POV, both of you.

 
 
Probus
 
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Probus
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18 August 2017 12:46
 
goedselhoeg - 15 July 2017 04:10 PM

As much as I appreciate this podcast, I find the title and some of the content quite alarmist. I am german and live in the south-west of my country. Last year we as a country took 800 000 refugees, and the south-western part had more than his share. In my town of 25 000 people we had roundabout 500 refugees - and nearly nothing ever happened. There has been a slight increase of bodily harm, because of disputes among refugees. But this was mostly due to the living conditions they where forced into, beeing packed into a hall with 200 people without privacy and nothing to do the whole day. As the housing situation is easing of there are no more reports of assaults.
Shure there are problems with refugees, but this is not a unique situation for us. In the 1990s our former cancelor Helmut Kohl took in way more than one million russian-germans (people from russia with german ancestors). On the paper those where (mostly) christian germans, but in reality they had a hard time to integrate into a modern liberal society. And some still have. In average they tend more to conservative and right wing political parties, have more patriarchic worldviews and less sympathy for womens- or LGBT rights. But they didn’t change the course of our society - some days ago our parliament voted for full marriage equality for homosexuals.
I am not blue eyed with respect to the integration of many muslims into our society. There have been and will be serious incidents that are in part connected to the religion of the refugees. But to blame everything only on religion ist to onedimensional for me. Take the New Years Eve incidents in Cologne. The police was not prepared and there have been sexual assaults, mostly of north african young men. This incident was in the newspapers for weeks and even made its way to the US.
But the state reacted as he should, the police investigated, the justice did its work and the next year the authorities where perpared.
Take on the other hand the Octoberfest in Munich. Every year in the two weeks of the big party there is a significant rise in sexual assault and rape in Munich. But noone ever talks about that. Maybe because it would be bad for the marketing and because it has nothing to do with refugees or migrants. But it has a lot to do with the combination of young men and a lot of alcohol (as in Cologne).
No society could take every year 1% of immigrants and stay the same and if 2017 would have had the same numbers as 2016 there would have been realy big problems in Germany but even this would not have been primarily due to religion. Integrating one million (mostly muslim) refugees (in Germany) is a great challenge for us, but the end of Europe is not at hand.
I am more concerned about the end of the United States of America as we know it. Considering Trump, the Republican Party, christian fundamentalism, science scepticism… But maybe I got a wrong perspective form my side of the Atlantic (at least I hope so).

Thank you for your insights, you pile of crap :D

 
goedselhoeg
 
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goedselhoeg
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18 August 2017 13:12
 
TheEuropean - 18 August 2017 11:26 AM

Good post. Im also living in Germany. I generally think Sam needs to get deeply experienced in another open society like ours in order to make progress with his thoughts. 

PS do you have any Podcast suggestions for me. German or English. The quality of Sam’s is a high bar.

Dear TheEuropean, in a reaction to a former podcast of Sam I invited him (via Email) to Germany. Maybe he should watch the situation here by himself, instead of talking about it from the other side of the Atlantic. And besides that I would love to hear him speak live. But I assume, he didn’t read my message.
I am sorry, but I have no other podcast suggestions for you. Waking up is the only one I follow on a regular basis, because Sam covers a lot of the themes I am interested in (politics, religion, science, free will…). This is enough for me, considering the amount of time I have.

 

 
goedselhoeg
 
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goedselhoeg
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18 August 2017 13:46
 

Dear bigredfutbol,
I watch a lot of US TV-clips via youtube, and I recognize the same contrast as you. I often wonder what the reason is. Maybe it is the bigger importance of christian religion in some parts of the US. Or it is that we in Europe with our many small countries which where at war for the most parts of the last 20 centuries and at times faced invasions (of hunns, muslims in Spain, Turks on the Balkan…) are used to difficult situations. The 30 year war destroyed vast areas and cost in some parts of Europe nearly two thirds of the population and so did the plague. The two world wars where fought to a great extend in Europe and killed millions. We faced all this and we are still here. Maybe thats why we are sometimes a bit cooler. Up to now there was always a tomorrow, so what?

Dear Probus,
I was just beginning to feel a little bit insulted beeing called “pile of crap”. But then I realised that you speak swedish (or at least know how to google goedselhoeg). So thank you for your answer.

 
Probus
 
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Probus
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18 August 2017 15:17
 
goedselhoeg - 18 August 2017 01:46 PM

Dear Probus,
I was just beginning to feel a little bit insulted beeing called “pile of crap”. But then I realised that you speak swedish (or at least know how to google goedselhoeg). So thank you for your answer.

Haha, jo mitt modersmål är svenska även om jag inte bor i Sverige. Kunde bara inte låta bli att kommentera. Tycker det är rätt så lustigt att folk använder ditt namn utan att veta vad det betyder :D

 
martinR
 
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martinR
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18 August 2017 18:21
 

deleted

[ Edited: 19 August 2017 11:06 by martinR]
 
goedselhoeg
 
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goedselhoeg
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19 August 2017 16:19
 

Hey Probus,
jag talar liten svensk, but I think I understood, what you wrote.
Some years ago I was searching a nickname for a forum and the first three I choose where denied, because they already existed. So I got a little frustated and searched a name that was bulletproof. And since this time goedselhoeg served me quite good. First noone speaks swedish except 10 millions swedes (and you), second not even swedes would choose goedeselhoeg as nickname. That’s how I got this name.
I have been to sweden several times and that’s why I learned a little bit of the language, but as I excercise it very seldom I have forgotten a lot. Besides that, most swedes speak very good english (better than germans) so it is easier to speak english in sweden. Sad!

 
Probus
 
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Probus
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19 August 2017 16:59
 
goedselhoeg - 19 August 2017 04:19 PM

Some years ago I was searching a nickname for a forum and the first three I choose where denied, because they already existed. So I got a little frustated and searched a name that was bulletproof. And since this time goedselhoeg served me quite good. First noone speaks swedish except 10 millions swedes (and you), second not even swedes would choose goedeselhoeg as nickname. That’s how I got this name.

Haha, that’s so funny. I can picture you in frustration trying to find a nickname that is not taken (or followed by a random sequence of numbers), and thinking no one in their right mind will ever use THAT name :D My strategy is to use Latin nicknames. Yes, it’s pretentious and stupid. But, you do what you can to please your battered little ego. Perhaps I should change my name to ‘cumulum stercore’.