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Evolution takes a beating, live coast to coast!

 
Tom
 
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Tom
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17 March 2005 06:40
 

See, you are a Coward.  You don’t have the courage to stand up like a man for your beliefs and answer these question truthfully and openly.  Just true and false Champ. Questions 1-40!

And by the way, I’ll return the favor and answer any 40 of your questions with true and false afterwards. Fair enough? Also, I know the “answers” can be found in the bible, but I want you and your pastor’s take on it.

Thanks Champ

 
Tom
 
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Tom
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17 March 2005 07:14
 

You are backpedeling, coward.  Have some strength and answer truthfully.  You are not answering because you cant even admit to yourself what you believe.
And its not just for me.  Everyone here wants to know your answers.  They are good questions that will reveal alot about your beliefs.
True or false! All 40 questions.

And by the way, if you answer all the questions, then I’ll have only one more true and false question for you.  Aren’t you curious to know what that might be?

Come on Champ, I know you got it in you to answer my questions.  Why are you afraid?  Jesus would answer; he wouldn’t have a problem.  He told it like it was. May be you don’t know the answers?

TRUE or FALSE, ALL 40 QUESTIONS!

 
Tom
 
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Tom
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17 March 2005 10:11
 

Blue, please help me convince Champ he shoud answer my 40 questions.  It’ll clear up the air alot about really how much this Jesus “loves ya”.

Champ. I’m not giving up.  I will continue to post my 40 questions til I get an answer from you.  And in a way, you are right not to answer.  If you do, you will have to admit publically you and your faith approves the endless torture of children in hell simply for never having heard of Jesus Christ and that you believe this is perfect and loving justice.  Now if this is not what you believe, answer the 40 questions. If it is, continue to ignore me.

The irony here champ is that you believe people are drawn to your faith because they are more moral and righteous.  But the truth is, only someone depraved and morally sick can call your god’s punishment just and righteous.

It could be a SF story:  God comes, but he gets rid of all the religious people and only saves the nonreligious.  The unbelievers were the only ones with enough strength of character and morality not to approve of all the barbaric crap in the holy books, and they were interested more in truth then saving their own skin.

[ Edited: 17 March 2005 11:50 by ]
 
hampsteadpete
 
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hampsteadpete
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17 March 2005 14:49
 

That’s very astute of you, Blue.  Through the ages, the thumpers have been able to find support in the scriptures for ANY position they felt like taking, including, I might add, slavery!  That is why it is absolutly impossible to have a reasonable discussion with any of them.  No matter what you say, no matter what evidence you bring forth, they can refute it with ease, even if it means reversing a position they held 5 minutes ago, which, they will say, you didnt understand!  Don’t even bother!

Pete

 
ray
 
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ray
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18 March 2005 05:15
 

Champ

Please answer Tom’s questions.  I am very interested in how you personally feel.  I already know the answers I found in the bible I want (and I think Tom also does) YOUR personal answers or the ones YOU personally found in the bible.

I would like to encourage everyone responding to Champ to start their post with a request that he answer Tom’s questions.


Ray

 
ray
 
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ray
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19 March 2005 00:40
 

Hey Champ

Please answer Tom’s questions.  In all your posts you have seemed perfectly willing to share your views and ideas of what the bible says so why are you now getting so shy about sharing?  Please stop equivocating and stalling and answer Tom’s questions. 

“Or maybe…...just maybe…... you intellectuals know a lot of about biology, chemistry, calculus, physics, philosophy, and the like. All man’s knowledge and not a lick of sense-you know not God’s word?”

Why yes “just maybe” you are right, so give this poor intellectual without a lick of sense a break and answer Tom’s questions.

“I can answer those questions if you like. Guess I will, when I get around to it.”

Come on get around to it already.  There are only 40 and you are only being asked to answer true or false.  No bible quotes.  No elaboration.  No detail.  No equivocation.  Just 40 true or false answers please.  It shouldn’t take more than three minuets so why do you need to get around to it?

Ray

 
ray
 
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ray
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19 March 2005 01:09
 

Champion,

Here you go Champ.  Even though I have given up on the bible as a source of truth more than 40 years ago I can still remember what I was taught.  So as an example to you I have answered all 40 of Tom’s questions in less than 5 min. using only my recollection of the of the bible acquired from 12 years of religion classes at a Catholic grade school and a Catholic high school.  This is what I was taught.  I would like to know does your views agree with the Catholic understanding of what the bible says?

For someone who professes in depth bible knowledge it should be even easier than it was for me.

1.Hell was created for Satan and his angels by God.  TRUE

2.People’s souls will be tormented by Satan if they fail to meet God’s standards for life in heaven.  TRUE

3.People’s souls will be tormented, but not by Satan, if they fail to meet God’s standards for life in heaven.  FALSE

4.The length of time of the torment for failing to meet God’s standards for life in heaven is eternal.  TRUE

5.The length of time of the torment for failing to meet God’s standards for life in heaven is limited.  FALSE

6.The torment of souls in Hell can be described a continuous horrible anguish.  TRUE

7.The torment of souls in Hell can be described as mildly unpleasent.  FALSE

8.The torment of souls in Hell can be described as continuous intense pain as bad as or worse than anything our earthly bodies could experience.  TRUE

9.The age of the individual at his/her death is considered before God damns a soul to Hell.  FALSE

10.The age of the individual at his/her death is not considered before God damns a soul to Hell.  TRUE

11.No one who dies before the age of 18 will be damned to Hell.  FALSE

12.No one who dies before the age of 14 will be damned to Hell.  FALSE

13.No one who dies before the age of 10 will be damned to Hell.  FALSE

14.No one who dies before the age of 5 will be damned to Hell.  FALSE

15.There are only two places souls may be sent to after death; Heaven or Hell.  TRUE

16.Unrepentant homosexuality is enough of a sin to be sent to Hell.  TRUE

17.Unrepentant worship of Allah is enough of a sin to be sent to Hell.  TRUE

18.Unrepentant worship of any God other than The Champion’s God is enough of a sin to be sent to Hell.  TRUE

19.Not believing that Jesus is the Son of God is enough of a sin to be sent to Hell.  TRUE

20.Doubting that Jesus is the Son of God is enough of a sin to be sent to Hell.  TRUE

21.Having never heard of Jesus is enough of a sin to be sent to Hell.  TRUE

22.Not loving God is enough of a sin to be sent to Hell.  TRUE

23.Not loving Jesus is enough of a sin to be sent to Hell.  TRUE

24.Unrepentant smoking is enough of a sin to be sent to Hell.  FALSE

25.Drinking 6 beers every night is enough of a sin to be sent to Hell.  FALSE

26.It is possible there are souls as young as the age of 2 suffering in Hell.  TRUE

27.It is possible there are souls as young as the age of 8 suffering in Hell.  TRUE

28.It is possible there are souls as young as the age of 14 suffering in Hell.  TRUE

29.God’s love is perfect.  TRUE

30.God’s love is sometimes replaced with anger.  TRUE

31.I believe God’s justice is perfect.  FALSE

32.God’s justice makes sense to me.  FALSE

33.God’s justice seems a little harsh at times.  TRUE

34.I can understand why some sinful souls need to be tormented forever.  TRUE

35.Knowing that souls are being tormented for billions of years for 60 years of earthly sin seems reasonable to me.  FALSE

36.A person may not have killed anyone or even ever seriously physically hurt anyone yet they may still deserve to go to Hell.  TRUE

37.A person may not have killed anyone or even ever seriously physically hurt anyone, love his/her parents, children and fellow humans, and yet may still deserve to go to Hell.  TRUE

38.A person may not have killed anyone or even ever seriously physically hurt anyone, love his/her parents, children and fellow humans, try throughout his/her life to help others and yet may still deserve to go to Hell.  TRUE

39.A soul in heaven will be unbothered by the torment of souls in hell even if that soul in hell was a former son, daughter, brother, sister, father or mother, wife, or husband.  TRUE

40.Knowing your children are being tormented for billions of years in hell (if thats where they were sent by God) will not weaken your love of god or diminish the bliss of heaven if that is your reward.  TRUE

 

See how easy?  Come on, now it’s your turn.

Ray

 
ptripp
 
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ptripp
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19 March 2005 09:27
 

Champion-I am getting into this late, but like the others, I am compelled to respond to such a pompous display of irrationality.

I have long ago learned to back off from any attempt to have a discourse of ideas with anyone as wrapped in religious dogma as you seem to be. It is as much a waste of time as trying to convince a mentally ill patient with Schizophrenia that the voices that they hear are not real. It cannot be done with rational arguments. The same applies to you. Any attempt to use compelling arguments based in rational thinking is a complete waste of one’s time and effort.

I imagine that you delight in ruffling the feathers of those who understand reason. Unfortunately, many of those good people try to reason with you and therein lies the problem. You and your brethren suffer from something akin to mental illness. Rational arguments are a complete waste of time because you do not live in that world or abide by its tenets.

Believe me when I say that I could just as easily argue that there is a Santa Claus as you argue that there is a God. The two beliefs have much more in common than you would initially think. 

You of course would think that my arguments for Santa’s existence were absurd and would discount me completely. That is how the rational minority view your beliefs.

I do have two questions for you. How did human beings attain salvation prior to the birth of Jesus Christ?

Also, how do humans gain salvation if their place of birth and formal upbringing never allowed them to gain access to the “words” of the new Testamant concerning salvation? I am speaking about now and for the past two thousand years.

It is a subject that I find compelling with respect to your dogma. Phil T Murrieta, CA

 
ptripp
 
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ptripp
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19 March 2005 11:49
 

Champion- I apologize if your agenda is not to ruffle feathers as I referred to it. In your early comments, you are pretty flagrant in your pronunciation of faith. In a web site of non-believers, that came across as showboating to me.

It was quite painful to read Tom’s 40 questions. He has a great deal of passion and, like I said before, is trying to engage you in a rational discourse. It is of course a fruitless endeavor because you are an A student in citing the teachings of the bible that you guard so closely. There doesn’t appear to be one iota of individual thought coming from you, but you are brilliant at reciting scripture.

You have answered my two questions by essentially telling me to find my answers in the bible. There isn’t a lot of thought on that one.

I can assure you that most of us don’t consider discourse with you a debate. For most of us, we have the answers that we seek and they do not involve your God or Jesus Christ. We really aren’t debating whether you are right or not. We know the answers. We just can’t figure out why what is obvious to us, is hidden from view for the majority of all religions, not just yours.

 
CanZen
 
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CanZen
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19 March 2005 14:16
 

I guess TChamp has a difficult time reasoning with his own brain - hence his frequent turn to the bible.  Notice that he added 31% to 79% to get 100 - he is a powerful mathematician! No wonder nothing we say seems to add up for him in the ‘this makes good sense’ column.
Bob

 
 
ray
 
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ray
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20 March 2005 01:12
 

Hey Champ

It seems you have plenty of time “to get around to” responding to other posts so when are you going to answer Tom’s 40 questions.

Please everyone lets see if we can get Champ to answer Tom’s true-false questions.  I think he does not want to do this because he will then be forced to actually defend a non-moving position.  Let’s get a solid base of his views to start from.  One that all his future (and past )responses can be evaluated against.


Ray

 
ptripp
 
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ptripp
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20 March 2005 01:53
 

Good morning Champion. I see that some of the others have once again joined the fun.

I do have to give you credit for hanging in there with this group. Without sounding condescending, your last reply to me sounded like a very grounded person. It seemed as though you jumped off of your soap box and spoke from the heart. I would welcome anyone like that into any discourse that I am having.

I think that many of the other earlier replys to you were a challenge for you to speak from the heart instead of quoting from the book. You made it clear however, that your answers all come from the book and therein lies the difference between us. We don’t have a book to quote. It all comes from inside.

Most of us, I would guess, have had some kind of Judeo-Christian upbringing. Particularly if we were raised in North or South America or Europe. So at one time, many of us believed or at least went along with what we were taught in Church, Synagogue, Sunday school or in our homes.

At some point in our lives, we came to question the “Church’s” teachings. All the things that had been taught to us as “gospel” became a target for our logic and rational inquiry into the “truth”.

It is a journey, for me, that started at 12 when I read “The Age of Reason” by Thomas Paine. Until that time, I just figured that everything in the bible was factually based and I had no reason to doubt that the events were true. I was an atheist by age 16-18 and have been on that journey for almost four decades.

My point is, that you shouldn’t come in here trying to convert any of us. For most of us, with regards to organized religion, we have already been there and checked out. You are not telling us anything that we haven’t already seen or heard. And most assuredly in my case, you are not going to convert me.

Whether we are Agnostic, Atheist, Buddhist, Hindu et.,al, we have probably either been indoctrinated into the Judeo-Christian teachings or have explored them at one time.

So if some of us appear bright, as you called it, it is probably due to exactly what you said. We didn’t just arrive hear yesterday and most of us have probably explored many philosophies in the course of our lives.

I think that if you keep that in mind when you engage this group, you will be accepted more graciously.  Speak from the heart instead of just playing back all of your memory tapes from the bible. We have all dealt with people like you many, many times.

I respect you for your beliefs. You sound like one that is very comfortable with where you are in life. I often read about so much corruption and bad actions by supposedly religious people and I realize that there is a core of people that walk the walk and talk the talk and live their lives by biblical standards. I suspect that you are one of the good ones. Live long and prosper.  All the best. Phil in Murrieta

 
landulf
 
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landulf
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21 March 2005 22:42
 

Perhaps “champion” your remarks regarding intellectuals have their origins in envy.I say this because aside from your astounding ignorance,your spelling proves that you are anything but an intellectual. Is this a case of “if you can’t beat them,insult them”? I think I can both beat you and insult you since for the sake of the survival of mankind and the planet you and all those like you must be and frankly, “champion” are being beaten even though it seems that religious fanaticism is on the rise. As far as insulting you,I think Mr. Harris has clearly pointed out that you and people like you are as deserving of insults mabye even more so, as the average nazi pig.I hold no brief whatsoever for satanism with it’s social darwinist,neo-fascist worldview and it’s elevation of the predatory sociopath as the “elite” of mankind. The thing about satanism though is that it’s bark is far louder than it’s bite. It is a marginalized belief held by a small minority on the fringes who hold little power,a far cry from that held by christians,muslims, and capitalists. The capitalists hold the irrational belief that globalization,unrestrained corporate power etc…are the answers to all the world’s ills. All you have do is look at the conditions of the third world in this 21st century(and many poor and marginalized westerners who obviously are never counted) and you can see the rationality of these ideas. If you think the species of capitalism practiced in the modern world has nothing to do with this,perhaps you should put down your Noam Chomsky(who whatever his faults,has always been coherant enough for me) since Chomsky-bashing seems so in vogue these days and read John Perkins’ book “confessions of an economic hitman”. This cheery little volume provides a crystal clear account of the astonishing injustices our wonderful globalised free market balderdash is responsible for. The thing that makes it unique is that it is written by an insider who was part of this injustice until his “road to damascus” moment. You may be wondering what my point is here,it would be more accurate to consider what my points(plural)are for they are “legion”. I am surely not naive enough to think that I will change your mind or that of any other “true believer”. For now yes I am satisfied with mere insults, anything I can do to make the lives of christers,muslims and all those whose irrational,self-serving beliefs have made life a hell on earth for thousands of years more miserable, is o.k. by me. Your illusory cosmic tyrant of a god is dying but simply does’nt know when to fall down!!! I have an idea as to why religious fanatics like yourself seem to be on the increase. It is precisely BECAUSE your beliefs have become untenable and deep down inside,  I think only the most idiotic/unstable among you do not realize it. The basic problem is you are too weak too “handle the truth”,you are just a terrified little child deep down inside,is that not so “champion”? A world without your precious christ is just terrifying and inane to you isn’t it? Boy I can’t wait to see all the “love your enemy” BS you unload on me after this!!! Yes,champion your god is dead and it is rather comical to watch all you christers fight like a cornered rabbit who knows it’s end is nigh. That’s what’s happening here is it not? Did’nt the germans and Japanese rally together and fight harder when they knew they were doomed? Christianity is already all but dead in Europe and it’s demise in the USA will only be a matter of time. When all the old farts and baby boomer believers finally do the planet a favor and drop dead,then the youth of today will disgard the vomitoriums you call “houses of worship” once and for all. Please don’t tell me about some paltry “youth revival because 99% of the people I know under 35(since I am one and I personally know hundreds and come in contact with thousands) are having none of your nonsense!!! The ones that are religious will quite often abandon their faith later on (akin to the hippies of the “love generation”) as simply their own form of youthful idealism. Where does that leave you and your kind champion?? Oh I forgot, jesus who is returning anyday now will take care of you and punish the heathens. That way you and your ilk can secretly revel and get your boundless egos stroked,(since you were right all along and all those “godless intellectuals” who looked down on you were wrong) while watching all the non-believers roast in hell!!! Go ahead and tell me how ignorant I am about your beliefs and all that other tiresome spew. I have studied your religion and all others far too long to be ignorant of any aspects of them. That is exactly the kind of thing your dogmatic doggerel espouses and if you don’t believe it, then even jerry fartwell and the pope will tell you your not a real christian.Yes,this is your"religion of love” in action. Then you will cynically announce how horrified you are about the “lost souls” who rejected your scarecrow nazerene !!! In other words; “yes martha isn’t it ashame about our gay nephew,but oh well we get to whoop it up for eternity with JC so hey atleast were safe”!!! (“you have truimphed oh pale galilean and the world has grown grey from thy breathe”;Algernon Swinburne). What kind of a sick,megalomanical,egoistic,sadistic,infinitely sociopathic god would damn his creations(or even permit them to go)to a place of infinite and eternal suffering merely for not believing in him? (or for ANY REASON I don’t even think Hitler deserves ETERNAL torment). The kind of god you claim to love and worship champion, the god of fear,the “testy senior jehovah conceived by your petty malice”. I am aware that you christians and especially conservative catholics attempt to moderate the fire and brimstone crap with these powerful theological insights like;“it’s the person who chooses hell,god does’nt put them there” or;all hell is eternal seperation from god"how positively comforting this is!!! If you can’t understand why it’s not comforting or “moderate” too bad, I refuse to spell it out for you. It is difficult to know whether to laugh at people like you,pity you,revile you or what. I find myself doing all these and more but mostly,I truly can’t believe unspeakably irrational entities such as yourself even exist at all in this day and age. Your whole illucid myth is instilled by fear and you refuse to see it. All you do is desperately grasp at ANY promise that fits your pathetic needs.I can give christianity (and islam, to an extent) a certain amount of credit in that they are perfectly designed to permit no “escape hatch”. A christian may find his beliefs wholly ridiculous and actually hate and resent the god he claims to love. HE/She may realize that it is impossible to hide these feelings from god so the obvious solution;pray for the grace you need in order to love him.After all, you know where you headed if “divine intervention” doesn’t save you from your own anger and hate towards the cosmic tyrant. Like the people of Iraq and soviet russia you all profess your love for the “dear leader” to friends,family,neighbors and cameras. The way you feel deep down could be whole other matter could’nt it Champion? Since most christians do have the capacity for rational thought it is very likely difficult, if not impossible for many of them to take their fairy tales seriously. BUT always lurking in the background, is that ole’ “just in case there really is a hell I better believe” mentality. So the whole house of straw is built on
the most craven,selfish,deceitful pottage of a foundation that has ever been!!! It is also easy to understand why christers like you will always hold on to your faith instead of adopting any alternative. Hard-core atheistic materialism?,no good at all and I certainly concur with you there. I find that worldview not only as grim and horrifying as your own, but equally as stupid. How in the hell mortal human can completely dismiss the idea of any existence outside the physical is beyond me. This is why like your friend, Charles Darwin I"must be content to remain an agnostic”. I THINK(based solely on overwhelming circumstantial evidence) that there ARE “dimensions of consciousness” a spiritual realm,if you will. I can’t prove it with any degree of certitude and I am not presumptous enough to claim that I have the slightest clue as to “it’s” nature quite unlike folks like yourself who struggle to balance your checkbook, but claim to have a relatively good idea about the nature of god,etc… Yes,Yes I know people like me think it’s all about the intellect and god is something you can only know through intuition or what you please!!! Did you ever wonder,if you have the “grace” to “see things through the eyes of the soul and not the mind” from whence these “revelations” may come? Are you ignorant enough to think the human brain cannot deceive itself and mabye,just mabye these things are just the brain giving it’s user what it so desperately wants? What about the “miracles” at fatima and all that you say? where thousands of people witnessed the sun hurdling towards the earth and other seemingly supernatural goings-on. Well, first of all I was not there,but I do not at all doubt that something happened. Is it wise to knee-jerk around and ascribe the whole occurance to the “holy virgin”? Could it not POSSIBLY have a countless number of more"rational explanations”? I will be the first one to admit mabye it was jesus christ and mabye just mabye he is the son of god!!! But if he and his father are ANYTHING close to what people like you and your “holy books” say they are, I would’nt think twice about “joining the other side”. Atleast satan does’nt offer any pretense about being a “god of love” and is pretty damn candid about his “evil”. I probably would be a frightened little twit like yourself if I really did even remotely buy any of this but fortunetly, I don’t. But I have digressed big time we have already discovered why “materialistic atheistic absolutism’” is something that you can’t believe in (and as stated, even though it MAY be the “ultimate reality” I personally think it’s totally irrational to believe in this with certainty,it is also something I don’t WANT to believe because it is as ugly,mabye more so in SOME respects as your own hellfire christianity). Well what about “alternative beliefs” like the ones that encapsulate the “new age” ? The god of the old/new testament and the koran is certainly not kind to pagans,witches and occultists of any stripe. So a person like you,atleast in theory COULD sit down and study things like kabbalah,western esotercism,hermeticism,magick,etc… and come to the conculsion that as irrational as much of this is,atleast it potrays a “kinder-gentler” spirituality (much of it anyway) devoid of hellfire and deity “brownnosing” and all the other wonderful things that make christianty and it’s “fellow traveller” faiths so hateful. Not only that but ATLEAST (the hypothetical christian may say) it’s LESS IRRATIONAL than my own faith that would have me believe a guy lived inside a fish for three days and another one made countless billions of gallons of water obey his will and all the endless other fairy tales. Well,what does our inquistive,theoretical christian do with all of this? The answer would be obvious to the most meager theological tyro,he soundly rejects it!!!! It’s that darn old “just in case” again the permits NO escape hatch from the self-imposed slavery of christianity. Although it must be evident to you that I detest all beliefs that are based on insufficent evidence (I imagine you may make that feeble attempt that “bible scholars” so often do to try to prove that christianity has loads of “scientific evidence” to support it). I would love to see exactly what you considered so overpowering to the evolutionist’s argument on the Michael Medved show. That tittering,epicene,right-wing, windbag could’nt sell me a candy bar and the fact that you take him seriously shows your stupidity perhaps better than anything else could. I would not doubt that it was some fake (or even real with a right-wing agenda) evolutionist who was paid to make his argument sound as implausible as possible without raising eyebrows among the doltified disciples of that imbecile’s talk show.Neither “repugnicans or “demorats” are above these sort of dirty tricks. Ah but I ‘ve gone off on a tangent again,oh well so much contempt, so little time. As I said,it must be abundantly clear how much I loathe all irrational beliefs(not at all because they are irrational,but because of the untold misery they are directly/indirectly responsible far too much of the time , as Mr. Harris so astutely argues). You may have noticed that I hold christianity in particularly low regard and I will not try to deny it. I have a multitude of reasons for this and if you at all care, I am willing to answer them if asked. Islam comes in at a real close second and in certain ways may even be the blue ribbon pig of the centuries,but only in certain categories. Well, I will leave you with a warning and when you and all the rest of the believers are done laughing, you might want to let your notorious capacity for fear guide you rationally this time. All those who allow their irrational beliefs to oppress and harm others are nothing more than miserable bullies. Since you don’t believe in evolution it is hardly worth explaining the more abtruse aspects to you,so i’ll put it in strictly laymen’s terms(still to no avail no doubt). Civilization did not evolve by allowing bullies a free reign indefinetly. Bullies have(although it undoubtly takes time) historically not fared well,think of the French revolution,the nazis,the shah of Iran,sadaam Hussein and even victims of school shootings. While a few of these events (like a columbine massacre) could probably not be justified it is hard to believe people would be driven to commit desperate acts such as these without the prerequisite bullying. I have noticed a growing worldwide hostility towards many irrational beliefs especially but not at all limited to, christianity and islam. This hostility has grown for islam after the atrocities of Sept 11 and for christianty (towards american christians,in particular) over the past four shameful years of dubya and even more after the embarassing recent re-election of that glad-handing phony. Many People in this nation and globally are becoming tired of being mocked and bullied by christers , muslims and other dogmatic clowns in such an unworthy way. I know there has been a rash of church burnings and violence against christians and muslims all over europe and even in the USA. While I do not condone this at all, ask yourself this question. If you entered a black neighborhood and started yelling a bunch of racial epithets,do you think you would garner much sympathy from the public if you were beaten to death by a crowd of black men? With that said christians,muslims and others have done far more then shout insults over the centuries and you continue to do so.It should not surprise you at all when churches/mosques burn,preachers and muslim clerics are killed and similiar violent acts are directed towards the “faithful”. These acts may currently be commited primarily by anti-social teenage “satanists” driven to violence by drugs and “black metal” music or racist working-class white youth in europe/america who blame muslims for stealing all the jobs and other individuals/groups on the fringes of society. I can assure you if you think violent ideations towards you are just emanating from the “lunatic fringe” you better think again. You will probably adopt the typical macho-mindset(like most love your enemy/turn the other cheek christians) and say “if that’s the case bring it on”!!! Well if you want a war, you may happen to be getting one before jesus decides to show up and protect you. All of this could be avoided so tragically easy if you people would just simply believe in whatever myth you want and STOP SHOVING YOUR BELIEFS DOWN THE THROATS OF OTHERS WHETHER IN THE POLITICAL ARENA OR ELSEWHERE. But this you obviously are not going to do,so strap in your jayzeus belt it’s gonna be a bumpy century!!! But whenever I hear one of you whining about any injustices that you have suffered ,you will get no sympathy from me. Oh well, just like hundreds of thousands of people in 19th century america who believed with certainty what Miller told them about christ’s return on a certain day in that century, you’ve all got the second coming to look forward to and then you’ll be saved from the angry sodomites who would hang you from the “gibbet for the sport of your own crows”. Well in miller time, christians were the overwhelming majority in the western world so it was no problem when JC sold out that time around. I don’t think you’ll get off so easily this time around.

 
landulf
 
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landulf
Total Posts:  112
Joined  21-03-2005
 
 
 
22 March 2005 01:20
 

Btw,champ if you do respond with any jesus loves you anyway rubbish,remember who I am. DO NOT mistake me for some sunny, 60’s- hippie- turned- reaganomics- 80’s- yuppie-who-sold-my-“soul”-and-ass-namby-pamby- baby- boomer-who- still-clings-to-some- of-my-old-ideals-so -I -don’t-have-to-realize-what-a-phony-jerk-off-I-truly-am while-getting- rich-serving-the-corporate- fascists- all- week-aiding- their- nefarious-agenda-pompous-balsalmic-dreams-hillary-lovin-chelsea-morning-pbs-supporting-liberal.Around here, these farts still blowin’ in the wind firmly secure their “good-guy badges” to their lapels and trot off to the kabbalah center to hob-nob with madonna the “old battleaxe” ciccone and paris “the defacto hooker” hilton on Saturday evenings!!! This type is all to common in my area and we begin to see Hegel’s dialectical method in action in my town considering the relative paucity of christer swine of your ilk here.I must say I truly don’t know which is worse. Well, atleast in the case of florida,there is always the hope that the volcano in the Canary Islands may collapse and generate a mega-tsunami(I wonder how paris would screw and shop her way out of that tight spot?). Just kidding everyone but not really, hmmm… tsunami will take care of floridian libayuppie pukes, what to do about those pesky fundies in the heartland? I know!!! since they have such contempt for science anyway then mabye all the scientists should leave the country and the next severe flu strain will pretty much take care of the fundies. In any case,“chimp” If it’s not bloody blue blatant by now,I am your avowed enemy and offer zero apologies. The sort of fluffy tolerance and candy-ass “dialogue” you have probably grown far too comfortable with from the aforementioned types, you will NEVER get from me. It is exactly the tolerance and patience of many mawkish liberals that has permitted “faith bullies” like yourself to aquire such power in the world. I said it in the last post and i’ll say it again if you fartwells and followers of the drolling fossil in rome etc…continue your abusive god-mongering you will reap the whirlwind,that is something I do have strong faith in!!! I know it’s your duty as a servant of the lord to convert everyone. It might be wise to ask the good lord if you can give up on the infidels already cause they ain’t budgin’. If you think a wholesale revolt against your intrusive style of religion is impossible,consider history and how the excesses of the catholic church were dealt with by the reformation,unfortunetly the ole hegelian dialectic came to pass in that case too. Considering that, it could be likely that something equally as obnoxious as Xtianity could arise after it’s final death throes(it certainly did with communism). I do not believe in the inevitability of hegel’s thesis-antithesis-synthesis, however and at this juncture, in the most perilous time in history, when man is willingly fostering wholesale socio- economic injustice and all-out ecocide for the almighty free-market and “progress” what in the sam hill do we have to lose in this Orwellian nightmare “civilization” but the shackles of a twisted fairy tale that has enslaved us for 2000 years. Ding -dong your god is dead loser,I mean champion.  :evil:

 
Iisbliss
 
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Iisbliss
Total Posts:  1182
Joined  22-12-2004
 
 
 
22 March 2005 04:02
 

Dennis Miller sold out too = p

The problem with your approach Landulf is a basic pyschological one.

Most Christians are caught up with the idea that they are victims already.

Frontal attacks such as throwing them to the lions, while fun to watch, have been tried before but weren’t very successful.

I suggest your motivation on your own personal level is just as ego centric and anger driven as their motivation.

 
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