Total Posts:  73
Joined  27-09-2006
02 November 2006 11:47
[ Edited: 02 November 2006 19:50 by ]
Total Posts:  2084
Joined  15-11-2005
02 November 2006 15:10
[quote author=“TheChampion”]I feel sorry for him and it is too bad that some are gloating on this thread.

I see a lot of mirth, Champ (I mean, c’mon, it’s goofy—a gay-basher secretly paying for gay sex?). . . but there’s nothing here that comes close to your long paragraphs of gleeful snickerings, hardy-har-hars, hic hic hic and heeeheee-hawhawhaw sputterings regarding the folks you hold in personal disdain. . . right? Be honest, Champ, you do it all the time, and you go on and on with childlike, do-a-little-jig glee. In this case, if the allegations are true, then the colossal hypocrisy fairly begs some major giggling.

Actually, he’d be lucky if he he gets off (sorry) that lightly. If true, I would think that outrage might be notable. Lives are impacted every day by the (faux?) homophobia men like this promote.

I’m curious why he felt he needed to resign his national post, though, and not just the local one, since a rapid investigation might quickly have cleared his name. Wouldn’t unfounded accusations be a dime a dozen, coming at guys like this on a pretty regular basis?. . . unless Ted knows what’s on those voicemails, and in the letter. He just caved a little bit too fast, don’t you think?

Personally, I think it’s a good thing. The more people realize what a pile of bull they pay lip service to, the whole “we can be holier than everyone else by congregating under the banner of Jesus!!!” delusion—not to mention that these flimflam men are pocketing a significant chunk of their flock’s meager paychecks—maybe then we’ll see the megachurch fad blessedly fade away.

Total Posts:  73
Joined  27-09-2006
02 November 2006 17:48

Here’s a prediction—if I’m correct you can say you heard it here first.

I predict that Ralph Reed, former executive director of the Christian Coalition, will at some point go down in a similar sort of scandal.  Yes, he has already been discredited by his association with Jack Abramoff and all that, but I predict there will be even juicier stuff in the future.

No evidence here.  Just a hunch.  He is simply too smug in his moralizing and too pretentious—you know there is more baggage underneath to uncover.  It angers me to no end that individuals such as this try to control what free adult human beings do in their private lives.  If their actions weren’t so consequential, the stark irony of their own personal lives would be funny.

[ Edited: 02 November 2006 20:11 by ]
Total Posts:  73
Joined  27-09-2006
02 November 2006 19:57

Things are not looking too good for ‘ol Pastor Ted.

An article from today’s article reveals at least a partial admission of guilt made by Haggard to the current acting pastor at the New Life Church where he preaches:

“The acting senior pastor at New Life, Ross Parsley, told KKTV-TV of Colorado Springs that Haggard admitted that some of the accusations were true, but Parsley did not elaborate.”

But let’s be honest with ourselves—either he had gay sex with a gay male escort or he didn’t.  This partial admission will almost surely cascade into a full admission…to no doubt be followed by an endless litany of excuses, including admission of a cocaine habit, family neglect (ie -my dad didn’t go to my soccer games when I was 10), or some other form of obscurantism. 

Or perhaps he’ll argue for demonic possession, who knows?


Total Posts:  103
Joined  29-10-2006
02 November 2006 21:23

[quote author=“TheChampion”][quote author=“Mia”][quote author=“TheChampion”]Ahh….must be untrue. Can’t be true.

We’re all so weak without Jesus and in the words of Sting (not a Christian) we need to know how fragile we are.

Just how are we all so weak without Jesus? Statistically non-believers have a higher standard of living, higher educational levels and IQ, lower divorce rates, better health, longer life expectancy, lower incidence of addiction, spousal and child abuse etc.

People who don’t believe in a personal god/babysitter/fairy godmother etc. are less fragile because they believe and practice in self reliance.

Total Posts:  2084
Joined  15-11-2005
02 November 2006 21:40

Here’s the article:

Haggard Admits to Some of the Allegations
Posted: 3:00 AM, Nov. 3, 2006
Last Updated: 3:38 AM, Nov. 3, 2006

By Tak Landrock and Dave Rose

Pastor Ted Haggard is now admitting that some of the allegations by former gay escort, Mike Jones are true.

In an e-mail obtained by NEWSCHANNEL 13, Acting Senior Pastor Ross Parsley says Haggard confessed to the board of overseers. Parsley told members of New Life Church; ” He has willingly and humbly submitted to the authority of the board of overseers, and will remain on administrative leave during the course of the investigation.”

The e-mail goes on to say the leadership team is strong and untied.  We remain resolute in our commitment to serving New Life Church and the people of our community. It also asks members to continue to keep Ted and Gayle and their family in your prayers.

Ted Haggard was the Senior Pastor of the 14-thousand member New Life Church in Colorado Springs. He placed himself on leave from his church duties Thursday afternoon.  He also resigned from his position as President of the National Association of Evangelicals.

Jones told reporters that he is stepping forward with the charges now because he is concerned that Haggard doesn’t practice what he preaches.  Jones laid out his charges during a talk show on Denver radio station KHOW. Jones also accused Haggard of using drugs.

Pastor Haggard first denied the accusations in an interview with Denver television station KUSA Wednesday night.  Haggard told the television station that he doesn’t know Mike Jones and has never had a relationship outside his marriage. 

Haggard has been a vocal supporter of the Colorado Marriage Amendment, which would place language in the state constitution defining marriage as a relationship between one man and one woman.  That amendment has drawn angry opposition from gay rights groups.

Many Haggard supporters question the timing of the allegations just days before the general election.  The group, Coloradans for Marriage, issued a statement Thursday afternoon saying, “This is a difficult situation for Pastor Haggard and his family.  However we will not let this distract our efforts to pass the Colorado Marriage Amendment…”

Mike Jones, the male escort making the charges against Haggard, claims to have voice messages and other evidence that will support his charges.  Jones claims his relationship with Haggard continued over a three-year period.

Total Posts:  2084
Joined  15-11-2005
02 November 2006 21:51

Ted is definitely in some serious doodoo (sorry). The proof must be irrefutable for the confessions to be coming this fast (sorry). Even at this stage, the best of spin doctors would be hard-pressed (sorry) to write this off as some mere lapse in judgment—it’s not like we’re talking a one, two, or even a ten-time thing, but a 3-year affair with a gay prostitute. I would suggest that clearly points us to Ted’s true sexual orientation. Which is no biggie. But then you have the illegal stuff mixed in.

Hey, Champ, HS & Company. . . what’s the deal with this? Shouldn’t a man with this sort of close connection to the Lord be getting a little extra help by way of willpower to overcome his forbidden lusts? No? Then why allow guys like this to stand at podiums preaching hetero-centric morals to you, preaching them to the country, taking your money, influencing your votes, living high (and clearly very satisfied) on your dime, fathering children who will be humiliated by this sudden exposure, not to mention the wife that gave birth to them. You fuel him with your wild adulation, and then he steps from the podium wearing his triumphant Jesus-y grin, and proceeds to fork over a wad of your  cash so that his longtime prostitute lover will do him. Possibly while he also gets high.

Talk about a “Hey Hollywood, how about tapping into Red State America?” moment, eh Champ? This one will make for a blockbuster docudrama.

Assuming this only gets stickier (sorry)—and based on the pace of revelations, how can we not assume that it will?—are you guys going to do the auto-forgive thing, and let Ted back up on his podium? Of course you will, he’s your brother! There but for the grace of God go you! Nothing, not even this, should make you question why you cling to the frameworks that you do. God was merely using Ted to teach you all some sacred truth (nevermind what sort of truth; you can work that out later). Besides, you might prove just as weak-kneed if the right male hooker glanced your way, right wink?

If this is your normal average run-of-the-mill Christian temptation, then I’m forced to admit that you guys have WAY more exciting sex lives than most of us can boast.

Edited to add link to transcript that seems to revolve around drug acquisition :


[ Edited: 02 November 2006 22:36 by ]
Total Posts:  540
Joined  22-11-2005
02 November 2006 22:09

Christians spend a large amount of their time worrying about sexual sin.  It is often the subject when they speak for God.  We here it a lot from the Christian Coalition as sexual sins seem to be the fastest way to get to hell.  It’s like being overweight and living with a constant desire for food.  One simply has to give in to these sinful urges. 

It has become the ultimate hypocrisy within the Priesthood in the Catholic Church and just as common in other Christian sects.  I have always felt sorry for young boys who are forced into Catholic schools where they are often molested by their teachers.  The young girls are often molested at home.

It seems to be developing into a mental illness and our innocent family members are often the subject of their sins.

This is a story that couldn’t be more timely.

Total Posts:  2084
Joined  15-11-2005
02 November 2006 22:38

And yet, if he were any everyday quietly religious guy, who would care about any of this? Except his wife and kids, and maybe the cops, if they caught him.

Instead, he has expressly invited us into his very private affairs by having taken a stand on what we’re allowed to do in ours.

Isn’t it The Root of All Evil  that Haggard appeared in with Richard Dawkins? It’s currently playing at the Roxie theater on Valencia in SF, for those who want to see his very interesting confrontation with the gentleman in question.

Here’s the youtube clip with Richard and Ted.


[ Edited: 02 November 2006 23:04 by ]
Total Posts:  2084
Joined  15-11-2005
02 November 2006 23:01

(more earnest investigative posting from your middle-o’-the-night salacious gossip correspondent)


From the article: SHOCK. DISBELIEF. DENIAL.

At Haggard’s gated Briargate home, the lights were on Thursday evening, but the occupants draped blankets across the windows when it grew dark. No one answered repeated calls to the callbox at the gate. Haggard did not return telephone messages from The Gazette.

One woman driving by stopped and said to the media gathered outside, “I hope you all aren’t giving our pastor a hard time. He’s a good man.”

At the church — within view of the Haggard home — church members expressed optimism that the allegations were false, but said that even if they were true, the church would go on.

“We’d be shocked if it were true. But our faith is based on God, not one minister,” said Megan Oaster, 26.

Others were angry. “This upsets me because they besmirched his name for an election,” said new member Seth Otterstad. “I’m going to pray about it.”

The allegations surfaced days before the Tuesday election, when two significant gay rights issues come up for a vote in Colorado. Amendment 43 would define marriage as between a man and a woman, and Referendum I would give same-sex couples certain legal rights. Haggard has been an outspoken supporter of Amendment 43.

Jones, the male escort from Denver, said his acquaintance with Haggard — whom he knew as “Art” — lasted about three years, with Haggard calling him every month or so and paying him for sex. Haggard’s middle name is Arthur.

Jones said the encounters typically lasted less than an hour.

“It was just encounters,” Jones told The Gazette. “There was no emotion involved.”

Jones also said he saw Haggard use methamphetamine.

Jones said he learned Haggard’s real name about six months ago while watching a History Channel program on which Haggard was interviewed. Jones began researching Haggard and discovered his church’s positions on samesex marriage.

“I got to tell you, I started getting pissed,” he said.

Jones approached Denver news outlets with the story about two months ago, but first spoke publicly Wednesday in an interview with Peter Boyles, a talk show host on KHOW (630 AM).

Wednesday evening, television station KUSA in Denver aired an interview with Jones, in which he named Haggard as his client. Haggard denied the charges on KUSA that evening.

“I did not have a homosexual relationship with a man in Denver,” Haggard told KUSA. “I am steady with my wife. I’m faithful to my wife.”

Jones says he has two voice mail messages and a letter from Haggard, which he released to KUSA.

The television station hired Richard Sanders, a voice identification expert from the University of Colorado at Denver, to compare the voice mail messages with samples of Haggard’s voice.

KUSA reported that nine of 12 words were “perfect matches” and that Sanders planned to issue a report today.

Jones acknowledged the political sensitivity of his allegations. “He is being the hammer, and the gay movement is his nail,” he told Boyles.

Several religious leaders defended Haggard before his NAE resignation Thursday afternoon.

“It’s fishy,” said the Rev. Steve Holt, senior pastor for 3,500-member Mountain Springs Church. “I think people should take note that this is five days before the election, and that Ted is a proponent of yes on Amendment 43 and no on Referendum I.”

James Dobson, founder of Focus on the Family, said the media were to blame.

“It is unconscionable that the legitimate news media would report a rumor like this based on nothing but one man’s accusation,” Dobson said.

“Ted Haggard is a friend of mine, and it appears someone is trying to damage his reputation as a way of influencing the outcome of Tuesday’s election — especially the vote on Colorado’s marriage protection amendment — which Ted strongly supports.”

The Rev. Donald Armstrong, rector of Grace Episcopal and St. Stephen’s Church, said he’s known Haggard for more than two decades and knows he’s not gay.

“I’ve known pastor Haggard for a long time,” he said. “That’s the last thing he’d succumb to.”

Greg Montoya, editor of a newspaper that focuses on Denver’s gay, lesbian and transgender community, Out Front Colorado, said rumors about Haggard had circulated for years through Denver’s gay community. Michael Rogers, head of the gay activist Web site Proud of Who We Are (, said he thinks Jones is telling the truth.

“I’m just looking at history,” Rogers said. “But I don’t know a lot of people who step down from those positions if there’s not something behind that smoking gun.”

Local gay spiritual leaders say they’ve never heard rumors that Haggard was gay.

“I feel a lot of sympathy for Ted,” said Nori Rost, head of Just Spirit, a gay rights advocacy group in Colorado Springs. “Having been a pastor, you live in a fishbowl anyway. It must be very painful for Ted and his family.”

Bryant Adams, state Republican Party communications director, said the matter was between Haggard and his accuser.

“Some gay prostitute goes on the radio and says he’s had some type of relationship with Ted Haggard,” Adams said. “I think you call into question where the source is coming from.

“I’m not commenting on this,” he added. “We don’t have anything to do with Ted Haggard. We don’t talk with his group. There’s no need for us to.”

At New Life and NAE, officials were reluctant to talk. NAE Chairman Roy Taylor said in a written statement he was now the organization’s acting leader and that the organization will release an official statement on Haggard today.

At New Life, a board of overseers — four pastors not connected with the church — will investigate Haggard and determine his fate: The pastor could be reinstated, disciplined or fired.

“People need to be patient and allow this process to unfold as it was designed to do,” said Parsley, the acting senior pastor.

The overseers met Thursday to determine how to proceed, said Haggard’s attorney, Martin Nussbaum. He said there is no timeline for the investigation.

“We are on a journey here, not an errand,” he said.

Gazette reporters Pam Zubeck, Tom Roeder, Anthony Lane, Andy Wineke, Dave Philipps and Perry Swanson contributed to this story.


Total Posts:  6
Joined  20-10-2006
03 November 2006 00:29

Here is some e-mail addresses for the N.A.E.

Public Relations: .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)
Office of the president: .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)
governmental affairs (no pun intended) .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)
I let the PR know that this would be a good time to reach out to the male prostitute voting block and perhaps they could get Teddy to endorse Magnum(xl) condoms
it might sound petty ,but these folks live to disparage the Secular world and its time they get a taste of thier own medicine have some FUN w/ e-mail

Total Posts:  2323
Joined  19-02-2006
03 November 2006 01:03

Maybe its just me. The pleasure you take in the downfall of this man has an underlying stink of anti-homosexual bigotry. I understand the hypocrisy charge but the pleasure you take in this seems to go beyond that. It is unbecoming of you tolerant types. You might say that the hypocrisy mirror reflects in all directions.

Total Posts:  1284
Joined  21-12-2004
03 November 2006 01:25

Speaking just for myself, Frank, such pleasure as I take in it, which isn’t much, is because this man truly has done nothing wrong, but he will be hoisted “on his own petard” so to speak.

If he is “guilty” it will be of hypocracy only.  I enjoy it like I enjoyed Jim and Tanny Faye, although they really broke the law.  My only question is, will Haggard’s stoning be public or private?

H. Finn
Total Posts:  101
Joined  18-08-2006
03 November 2006 01:31

Admittedly, there is enough hypocrisy to go around in this country, but us run of the mill hypocrites don’t make a living of it.  This guy, assuming that this story is true which seem likely base upon the “confession” to a another pastor, made a very good living based upon hypocrisy. Maybe he should have gone directly into Republican politics.

Total Posts:  6
Joined  20-10-2006
03 November 2006 01:36

Anti homosexual ? NO! Anti hypocrite ? YES!! All of these evangelicals and there supposed “protection ” of “family values” are full of the proverbial caca.if someone devotes thier life to filling peoples heads and hearts with fear and hatered for the “other” the deserve everything they get when they fall from grace.
.How many gay people have been stigmatized and ostracized because of the words of this man? too many.
Evangelical gay sex and drug scandel ? priceless