I was refering to deterministic chaos, not the Greek conception of complete randomness. I thought I had made reference to Kauffman’s work showing that order/organization arises from disorder (thats what we mean by evolution).
Somehow I didn’t catch the difference between random and deterministic chaos before now. And I think it’s a very interesting and plausible idea. However, I do see conflict between the idea of “the universe as a model of “deterministic” chaos with the ultimate empiricist playing around with constants to see what would come out,” and the idea that “there is no ultimate purpose.”
I could more easily consider one or the other on its own, but not together. If there is a Truth, my understanding is that whatever the Truth may be would follow through and apply to all levels of the universe. I am caught up with the idea that there is some ultimate purpose to the universe because I see that we, and every other living thing, are purpose driven. Therefore it seems logical to me to think that the universe is purpose driven.
Another problem I have with the “empirist playing around with constants” is that I can’t quite imagine an empirist intentionally setting into motion a world such as ours, with all its wars, pain and misery, for the hell of it.
Basically, I can’t get past the idea that there just has to be a reason to work through the pains of life, whether on a personal or global level. Why not do the easier thing and give up? Why bother trying to make the world a better place if our efforts ultimately are for nothing?
I guess my question here is, do other people share this same intent [to stay on topic in these conversations so as to explore the region a little better] or not?
I see that we’re all hear for different reasons. Some are here to learn, some to teach, some to preach, some to observe (check out how many registered users there are who have yet to make their first post). There is a core group of debate/discussion oriented users, who have always welcomed newcomers, who seem to run a thread until one side or the other runs out of steam. Might be a good idea to have someone sum up each thread and list the highlights, resolutions, conclusions. Most of the ‘regulars’ just seem interested in hashing out their ideas without the intention of necessarily resolving them. We aren’t interested in winning or losing; we just like playing the game of Thinking.
Keep throwing out your ideas and you’ll find your mind-mates.