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#65- We’re All Cucks Now A Conversation with David Frum

 
Nhoj Morley
 
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Nhoj Morley
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20 February 2017 08:43
 

In this episode of the Waking Up podcast, Sam Harris speaks with David Frum about the presidency of we-know-who. What better way to spend Presidents’ Day!


We’re All Cucks Now A Conversation with David Frum

This thread is for listeners’ comments.

[ Edited: 20 February 2017 09:16 by Nhoj Morley]
 
Günter Weber
 
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Günter Weber
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20 February 2017 13:28
 

From a German perspective todays show was really spot on: My country and more general the whole of good old Europe is total opposed to everything President Trump stands for. US is going to lose all sympathy and soft power in that part of the world that is supposed to be their closest ally. And of course this benefits nobody on both sides of the North Atlantic ocean. But if US turns openly hostile against the foundation of our raison d’etat what should we do? Russia and China cannot believe how lucky they are.

I am really puzzled how a significant part of US electorate and politicians are willing to throw the Pax Americana under the bus for what? To get their preferred SCOTUS judge? Or the next tax cut? This is trading the American Century for a mess of pottage. What a shame!

 
JohnCStalcup
 
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JohnCStalcup
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20 February 2017 14:27
 

This subject is simpler than I think you’re allowing it to be.  Liberal dogma has so thoroughly unlinked men, myself included, from the apes we like being, that this was bound to happen.  We’ve tipped.

Because every child in my children’s elementary school loved Barak Obama, but didn’t know why, made us irate.  Because we were and are encouraged to be calm in a country of drunkenness and rampant pornography is disastrous.  In presidential elections, voters are looking for a mirroring of their social strategies.  We don’t like, in the small community i live in, mother’s that relentlessly impose “please” into every sentence when directing a child, or peanut-free tables, further alienating the sole peanut eater.  Trump has won more simply.  Football not squash.  “Sit down and mind your manners,” over “Please, let’s think best how to use our indoor voice with Daddy.”

Some folks don’t care to use the word “ubiquitous,” regardless of whether they know what it means or not.

 
worstwriter
 
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worstwriter
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20 February 2017 20:53
 

I sprang out of my seat when Frum (a bit more than half-way through the podcast) started talking about how Russia would love to break the long standing ties between Germany and the US. At that moment Brexit and Trump’s election started to make sense. At least things started to click regarding who would benefit from breaking up the EU and stirring the bulwark that is #americant status-quo politics. Would love to read more about this—if anyone has sources. Maybe my long years of skepticism as an expat in Germany regarding the EU experiment isn’t so farfetched after all. -Rant on.

 
Paula Wright
 
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21 February 2017 06:35
 

“Unhinged” “narcissistic”?  What are the bases for these claims? On what scale are we judging narcissism in comparison to other politicians? Where are the benchmarks being set? We need to demand higher standards from our intellectuals. Fantasising about impeachment?! Cucks? We are in deep trouble if this is all you have.

At 14.19 in the timeline Frum gives Harris 3 great answers on why Trump has succeeded – he then dismisses them without discussion. Other people could have put forward solutions to these problems - Clinton could have, instead she called them “deplorable”. Social justice hysteria reached its zenith under Obama.  Race baiting is rife on the left. The media lost the public trust via Gamergate.

There is an easy way to get off the ride – prioritise classical liberal values over neo-marxist ones.

 
d0rkyd00d
 
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d0rkyd00d
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21 February 2017 10:15
 
JohnCStalcup - 20 February 2017 02:27 PM

This subject is simpler than I think you’re allowing it to be.  Liberal dogma has so thoroughly unlinked men, myself included, from the apes we like being, that this was bound to happen.  We’ve tipped.

Because every child in my children’s elementary school loved Barak Obama, but didn’t know why, made us irate.  Because we were and are encouraged to be calm in a country of drunkenness and rampant pornography is disastrous.  In presidential elections, voters are looking for a mirroring of their social strategies.  We don’t like, in the small community i live in, mother’s that relentlessly impose “please” into every sentence when directing a child, or peanut-free tables, further alienating the sole peanut eater.  Trump has won more simply.  Football not squash.  “Sit down and mind your manners,” over “Please, let’s think best how to use our indoor voice with Daddy.”

Some folks don’t care to use the word “ubiquitous,” regardless of whether they know what it means or not.

A few points.  Is it difficult to understand why children loved Barack Obama?  Don’t you think it was likely because their parents did, and because Obama had virtuous qualities that many found admirable?  I agree that there is a push-back to what I consider the moral confusion of our time, where folks are outraged over the not-so-outrageous, and it is akin to the first pushback from the Clinton-PC era when rappers like Eminem dominated the culture as a result.

Still, exactly what kind of response is justified by the state of current events is arguable, and many feel there is a line to be drawn when it comes to the moral character of the person we are putting in office.

 
d0rkyd00d
 
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d0rkyd00d
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21 February 2017 10:17
 
Paula Wright - 21 February 2017 06:35 AM

“Unhinged” “narcissistic”?  What are the bases for these claims? On what scale are we judging narcissism in comparison to other politicians? Where are the benchmarks being set? We need to demand higher standards from our intellectuals. Fantasising about impeachment?! Cucks? We are in deep trouble if this is all you have.

At 14.19 in the timeline Frum gives Harris 3 great answers on why Trump has succeeded – he then dismisses them without discussion. Other people could have put forward solutions to these problems - Clinton could have, instead she called them “deplorable”. Social justice hysteria reached its zenith under Obama.  Race baiting is rife on the left. The media lost the public trust via Gamergate.

There is an easy way to get off the ride – prioritise classical liberal values over neo-marxist ones.

If you cannot see a different level of narcissism in Trump than other candidates and people, then I fear you aren’t listening close enough.  It is rare to come across a person who so obviously seeks the approval and adoration of others, and who is so averse to any kind of criticism. 

Maybe social justice hysteria reached a zenith under Obama, but it would be a difficult case to make that it was because of Obama.  I don’t blame him for something he has no control over simply because it occurred while he was in office.

 
Babble68
 
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21 February 2017 10:30
 

Wat the hell is a Cuck?  A better title is “We are all dead now”.  Donald Trump is a crazy, drunk boat captain running a tour at the top of Niagara Falls.  It’s amazing to watch him turn any question into how he won the election by an enormous amounts, more than anyone else, the biggest since Reagan, etc.  Trump will destroy schools, the environment and possibly get us into wars with Iran.  Hopefully Maddis and Lt Gen McMaster can keep him in check. 

David Frum is one of the few conservatives that makes sense a lot of the time and he enlightens the audience here.  BTW, on Snowden (the biggest spy in US history) read the book How America Lost its Secrets by Edward Epstein.

[ Edited: 21 February 2017 10:53 by Babble68]
 
Psycho Bunny
 
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21 February 2017 10:55
 

More Leftists sounding rhetoric from a supposed Conservative insider. I’d expect better from Sam and I’d hope for more substance from a guest touted as knowledgeable.

Trump is, shockingly to some, a NY businessman who, shockingly to some, speaks in the manner of a NY businessman. How are you not able to see it for what it is?

A really disappointing podcast that I may try listening to again.

oh oh

 
d0rkyd00d
 
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d0rkyd00d
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21 February 2017 11:11
 
Psycho Bunny - 21 February 2017 10:55 AM

More Leftists sounding rhetoric from a supposed Conservative insider. I’d expect better from Sam and I’d hope for more substance from a guest touted as knowledgeable.

Trump is, shockingly to some, a NY businessman who, shockingly to some, speaks in the manner of a NY businessman. How are you not able to see it for what it is?

A really disappointing podcast that I may try listening to again.

8-/

That is an insult to NY businessmen, who are, ya’ know, actually educated (from sources other than Breitbart).

 
Paula Wright
 
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21 February 2017 14:01
 

Good God

 
JohnCStalcup
 
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21 February 2017 16:27
 
d0rkyd00d - 21 February 2017 10:15 AM
JohnCStalcup - 20 February 2017 02:27 PM

This subject is simpler than I think you’re allowing it to be.  Liberal dogma has so thoroughly unlinked men, myself included, from the apes we like being, that this was bound to happen.  We’ve tipped.

Because every child in my children’s elementary school loved Barak Obama, but didn’t know why, made us irate.  Because we were and are encouraged to be calm in a country of drunkenness and rampant pornography is disastrous.  In presidential elections, voters are looking for a mirroring of their social strategies.  We don’t like, in the small community i live in, mother’s that relentlessly impose “please” into every sentence when directing a child, or peanut-free tables, further alienating the sole peanut eater.  Trump has won more simply.  Football not squash.  “Sit down and mind your manners,” over “Please, let’s think best how to use our indoor voice with Daddy.”

Some folks don’t care to use the word “ubiquitous,” regardless of whether they know what it means or not.

A few points.  Is it difficult to understand why children loved Barack Obama?  Don’t you think it was likely because their parents did, and because Obama had virtuous qualities that many found admirable?  I agree that there is a push-back to what I consider the moral confusion of our time, where folks are outraged over the not-so-outrageous, and it is akin to the first pushback from the Clinton-PC era when rappers like Eminem dominated the culture as a result.

Still, exactly what kind of response is justified by the state of current events is arguable, and many feel there is a line to be drawn when it comes to the moral character of the person we are putting in office.

A couple back at you, with no disrespect, i lost you after the eminem remark. Here’s my point, see if you agree.  In my post what I implied was It is difficult to understand how EVERY child loved Obama.  It was not a percentage of students who’s parents voted for him, not a representative sample which mimicked the popular vote, as you might expect, all.  Even my own child loved Obama and would say so, but truly didn’t know why.  But they knew one thing.  And that was they HATED Trump.  And you can guess where I’m going…They didn’t know why on that question either.

Trump isn’t the hammer my conservative friends wanted striking the blow to what you accurately cite above as national political correctness.  But there you have it.  And why he’s president.  The movement was what we were after.  We’re animals with a singular pattern of drives.  But more we’re singular.  You don’t have to vote for a party.  You don’t have to vote. But this movement helps the country counteract the residue of Obama’s liberal legacy:  The early, over-empowerment of children and the communities of bratty kids, who turn into adults and disrupt society with disrespect and anger.

 
lucretiusskywalker
 
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lucretiusskywalker
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21 February 2017 18:28
 

Few questions JohnCStalcup,

    This subject is simpler than I think you’re allowing it to be.  Liberal dogma has so thoroughly unlinked men, myself included, from the apes we like being, that this was bound to happen.  We’ve tipped. Because every child in my children’s elementary school loved Barak Obama, but didn’t know why, made us irate.

Assuming this is true why did it make you irate?

  Because we were and are encouraged to be calm in a country of drunkenness and rampant pornography is disastrous. 

Why do you believe that pornography and drunkeness today is rampant and disastrous?

  In presidential elections, voters are looking for a mirroring of their social strategies.  We don’t like, in the small community i live in, mother’s that relentlessly impose “please” into every sentence when directing a child, or peanut-free tables, further alienating the sole peanut eater.  Trump has won more simply.  Football not squash.  “Sit down and mind your manners,” over “Please, let’s think best how to use our indoor voice with Daddy.”

Why does, who is the president, matter, when it comes to how people live their lives on the points you are making? The president doesn’t set laws on what a mother can teach their child. I have heard similar things, from trump himself and I do not understand it.

 
miggus
 
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miggus
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22 February 2017 01:34
 
Babble68 - 21 February 2017 10:30 AM

Wat the hell is a Cuck?

Not sure if this a serious question. Gonna answer for anyone else confused.

The term ‘cuck’ basically refers to a man who likes watching his wife have sex with other men. Connotations of being weak and pathetic are apparent.

 
JohnCStalcup
 
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JohnCStalcup
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22 February 2017 05:05
 
lucretiusskywalker - 21 February 2017 06:28 PM

Few questions JohnCStalcup,

    This subject is simpler than I think you’re allowing it to be.  Liberal dogma has so thoroughly unlinked men, myself included, from the apes we like being, that this was bound to happen.  We’ve tipped. Because every child in my children’s elementary school loved Barak Obama, but didn’t know why, made us irate.

Assuming this is true why did it make you irate?

  Because we were and are encouraged to be calm in a country of drunkenness and rampant pornography is disastrous. 

Why do you believe that pornography and drunkeness today is rampant and disastrous?

  In presidential elections, voters are looking for a mirroring of their social strategies.  We don’t like, in the small community i live in, mother’s that relentlessly impose “please” into every sentence when directing a child, or peanut-free tables, further alienating the sole peanut eater.  Trump has won more simply.  Football not squash.  “Sit down and mind your manners,” over “Please, let’s think best how to use our indoor voice with Daddy.”

Why does, who is the president, matter, when it comes to how people live their lives on the points you are making? The president doesn’t set laws on what a mother can teach their child. I have heard similar things, from trump himself and I do not understand it.


Assuming this is true why did it make you irate?

Sure, because educating children in a public school doesn’t/shouldn’t include training them in propoganda about the body of teachers’ political party of choice.

Why do you believe that pornography and drunkeness today is rampant and disastrous?

Seriously?


Why does, who is the president, matter, when it comes to how people live their lives on the points you are making? The president doesn’t set laws on what a mother can teach their child. I have heard similar things, from trump himself and I do not understand it.

Laws are continually created to shape behavior toward a particular point of view.  The tenor of a presidency and in effect real appointments do the same.  We’re viewing the violent disrespect for authority throughout the country.  Not a lot of peaceful protesting underway.  Lot’s of angry liberal children/young adults/adults not using their indoor voices.  The views of the presidency gives walking papers to those vocal groups.  And again, that’s what we’re hoping for.  Now that Mr. Obama is Mr. Obama again.

 
Günter Weber
 
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22 February 2017 06:25
 
Paula Wright - 21 February 2017 06:35 AM

“Unhinged” “narcissistic”?  What are the bases for these claims?

How would you label a president who personally calls the National Park service in the desperate attemp to back up the ridiculous claim that his inauguration crowd was the largest of all times?
The point is not that politicians from time to time say stupid things. But usually they do it for a certain political purpose. In contrast, the size of the inauguration crowd is relevant to nobody, but only to Mr. Trumps ego. And he does not care if he looks stupid as hell to the world and even his allies are shaking their heads as he cannot do otherwise than pampering his ego day-in day-out.

President Trump is as obviously unhinged and narcisstic as Sidney Portier is a person of (black) color.

 
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