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#76- The Path to Impeachment Conversations with Anne Applebaum and Juliette Kayyem

 
Nhoj Morley
 
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Nhoj Morley
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18 May 2017 18:14
 

In this episode of the Waking Up podcast, Sam Harris speaks with Anne Applebaum and Juliette Kayyem about the unfolding Russia scandal in the White House.

The Path to Impeachment Conversations with Anne Applebaum and Juliette Kayyem

This thread is for listeners’ comments.

 
Ramz1112
 
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Ramz1112
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19 May 2017 06:40
 

Just 15 mins in or so, but what I find amusing is this idea that Trump has a mental illness, or that he somehow doesn’t understand the correlation between firing Comey and meeting with Russian the next day.  He totally understands, he just doesn’t care. Why would he? Nothing he does or says has any ramification on him or his current status. He could literally get away with murder.

 
Ramz1112
 
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Ramz1112
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19 May 2017 07:53
 

Its funny hearing this podcast dole out that there is something wrong with someone openly taking advantage of his power. This has nothing to do with someone being inept, they arent addressing the root cause, which is the actual system keeping him there. If he was so inept, then why is he president? Why hasn’t he been impeached? Clearly, he isn’t inept enough, according to everyone that matters, in this case. So why rag on Trump? Makes little sense to me.

 
Art Dodger
 
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Art Dodger
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19 May 2017 08:11
 

Listen, I really object to Trump on many levels, but your engagement on this topic only reveals your bias.  These days, when someone tries to talk about US politics with me, I completely shut down the conversation because to defend or impugn the current administration is to degrade oneself.  This podcast is fundamentally flawed because your guests are representatives of one side of the political spectrum and the MSM, which makes me question your motives and connections.  Are you working on becoming a CNN contributor?  I honestly don’t have an opinion about these things, but pretending that there’s objective truth on these matters is to totally disregard the lessons you may not have learned from Jonathan Haidt.

I implore you to stop contributing to the childish discussion of Trump or I’ll have to turn you off.  If I wanted this shrill conversation of opinion politics, I would turn on MSM and chuckle at the stupidity of humanity.  All you are doing is revealing that hysteria and stupidity holds no boundaries and that people I respect are subject to idiocy as well.  Furthermore, I don’t think that everyone can compartmentalize your good ideas from your bad.

 
Ramz1112
 
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Ramz1112
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19 May 2017 08:22
 
Art Dodger - 19 May 2017 08:11 AM

Listen, I really object to Trump on many levels, but your engagement on this topic only reveals your bias.  These days, when someone tries to talk about US politics with me, I completely shut down the conversation because to defend or impugn the current administration is to degrade oneself.  This podcast is fundamentally flawed because your guests are representatives of one side of the political spectrum and the MSM, which makes me question your motives and connections.  Are you working on becoming a CNN contributor?  I honestly don’t have an opinion about these things, but pretending that there’s objective truth on these matters is to totally disregard the lessons you may not have learned from Jonathan Haidt.

I implore you to stop contributing to the childish discussion of Trump or I’ll have to turn you off.  If I wanted this shrill conversation of opinion politics, I would turn on MSM and chuckle at the stupidity of humanity.  All you are doing is revealing that hysteria and stupidity holds no boundaries and that people I respect are subject to idiocy as well.  Furthermore, I don’t think that everyone can compartmentalize your good ideas from your bad.

You can be on to something, regarding the total bias of the type of people being interviewed, but generally speaking, is this the type of behavior that is praised by a president? Take away all of the policies and governmental standings - is he really doing things that, in any other position, wouldn’t get him fired, or reprimanded?

I’m all for looking at both sides, but based on this alone I cant help but have a bad gut feeling here. That being said, do you have any podcasts to recommend so widen my views on the subject (easier for me to listen than read anything here)?

 
Art Dodger
 
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Art Dodger
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19 May 2017 10:54
 
Ramz1112 - 19 May 2017 08:22 AM
Art Dodger - 19 May 2017 08:11 AM

Listen, I really object to Trump on many levels, but your engagement on this topic only reveals your bias.  These days, when someone tries to talk about US politics with me, I completely shut down the conversation because to defend or impugn the current administration is to degrade oneself.  This podcast is fundamentally flawed because your guests are representatives of one side of the political spectrum and the MSM, which makes me question your motives and connections.  Are you working on becoming a CNN contributor?  I honestly don’t have an opinion about these things, but pretending that there’s objective truth on these matters is to totally disregard the lessons you may not have learned from Jonathan Haidt.

I implore you to stop contributing to the childish discussion of Trump or I’ll have to turn you off.  If I wanted this shrill conversation of opinion politics, I would turn on MSM and chuckle at the stupidity of humanity.  All you are doing is revealing that hysteria and stupidity holds no boundaries and that people I respect are subject to idiocy as well.  Furthermore, I don’t think that everyone can compartmentalize your good ideas from your bad.

You can be on to something, regarding the total bias of the type of people being interviewed, but generally speaking, is this the type of behavior that is praised by a president? Take away all of the policies and governmental standings - is he really doing things that, in any other position, wouldn’t get him fired, or reprimanded?

I’m all for looking at both sides, but based on this alone I cant help but have a bad gut feeling here. That being said, do you have any podcasts to recommend so widen my views on the subject (easier for me to listen than read anything here)?

Although I’m not ideologically aligned with Ben Shapiro, I’ve found his analysis of Trump pretty spot on insofar as he points out how everyone beclowns themselves in relations to Trump, left and right.  Actually, Daily Wire in general seems pretty balanced if you can cut through the religious lessons.

 
Celal
 
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Celal
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19 May 2017 11:51
 

Very disappointed in Sam, helping Dems push a big lie to take down Trump.  Sam and the liberals had taken a position against Trump last year and following the campaign results they continually show - including Sam - they are more interested being vindicated themselves than doing what is right! Like maintain honesty and integrity.

First Trump haters started a big lie , so called the “Dossier” about Trump and when that proved to be false and made up, they turned their attention elsewhere. Hoping Hillary would win and everyone would forget.

Then the unexpected happened. Trump won! Hillary lost!

This shocking event could only be explained with a new narrative. Not because Hillary was horrible candidate, but rather “Russians must have done it”.  Done what? I don’t know. Colluded how? I don’t know. Exactly how? I don’t know. What evidence is there?  None but “Russians must have done it”  Whatever it is. Just keep talking about it.

If honesty and integrity had prevailed, one would recall that;  Obama/Clinton had done more to appease Russians than any administration in recent history. For example…

- Obama scrapped the European Missile defense… 
- Obama/Clinton proposed to have a “reset” in Russia relations with a plastic red button…
- Obama/Clinton made fun of Romney when he said Russia was the enemy….
- Obama had the hot mike exchange with Russian President to a message to Putin that he would be more flexible after elections


This whole religiously vindictive/absurd charge about Russia appeasement came from Obama/Clinton team, not Trump. This none on the left denies, but no one cares.  Just keep the narrative going at all costs!

Yet, we have to listen to this nonsense. Sam should consider Maxine Waters to join him to provide further proof that Trump is a Russian agent, she can explain how Putin himself designed the Trump campaign strategy to call Hillary “Crooked Hillary” and even arranged people in Trump Campaign events to yell out “Lock Her up!”  That was all Putin.

Perhaps Sam can elevate quality of his discourse, at least with Maxine you get what you see. With Sam’s guests you get people who are masquerading as intellectual journalists. Then again Sam seems to be more interested with resume than substance, more ideology than truth.

 
Nhoj Morley
 
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Nhoj Morley
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19 May 2017 12:12
 

I have played the first half with Ms. Applebaum and find myself typing already. Why the puzzlement over people who do not connect things together? Or people who use power to build a customized truth? Have they never met a sales rep?

The President is not strange but rather common. There are many just like him. These are people who do two or maybe three steps of reasoning and then get angry. Is it because they are sure they’re right? No, it is because four steps hurts too much. The brains capacity for such perception is strained and pooped-out. It is easier to be a bully at two or three steps of reasoning than an ear-smoking egghead who reaches for four and beyond. Like journalists. Or FBI investigators.

Two-steppers are real easy to find. They can be co-workers, bosses, family members, neighbors, doctors, executives, contractors or old friends. There are a few spheres where the proportion of two-steppers thins out. One is in academic circles. There, one is surrounded by folks who have to do four steps just to eat. After years of isolation in academia, normal people can seem like quite a puzzlement.

Trump admires old-school authoritarians because their system works well with two-steppers. A complex system of checks and balances that relies on demonstrable facts is for four+ steppers but it requires training to become someone who can readily assemble long steps of reasoning. Being a two-stepper comes naturally.

We have traditionally put four-steppers in the White House. That should be a good thing but they mostly favor a system that favors four-steppers and exploits two-steppers as unenlightened yokels. This is sort of what Trump’s staffers and allies are trying to do. They want to exploit our two-stepper President in a positive way. They imagine that they can lay the tracks for this crazy train to follow. It is a great format for a TV series. Maybe we have been sucked into our TV sets.

So far, this episode offers a plot for a sci-fi movie. A team of scientists set out to learn how to eliminate mental illness. They are transformed along the way and become mutants. Their quest to eliminate mental illness becomes a campaign to stamp-out normalcy.

Our Founding Mutants would be saddened by how normal this country is becoming.

 
Ola
 
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Ola
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19 May 2017 12:28
 

I’m only half an hour in but, gosh, fellas, I think I’m listening to a different podcast altogether.

Sam is speaking utter sense.

So far.

 
prairie_surf
 
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prairie_surf
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19 May 2017 14:45
 

Excellent, and timely interviews.

I wonder, in regard to a question that came up a number of times (why are he republicans being so cautious?), if the answer is simply fear.
Trump is toxic, and will become more toxic if ousted.

 
SkepticX
 
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SkepticX
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19 May 2017 15:02
 
Art Dodger - 19 May 2017 08:11 AM

These days, when someone tries to talk about US politics with me, I completely shut down the conversation because to defend or impugn the current administration is to degrade oneself.


You’re not suggesting criticism of the current administration is unpatriotic or dishonorable are you ... ?

 
 
Cheshire Cat
 
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Cheshire Cat
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19 May 2017 17:13
 

Sam came up with a wonderful meme.

Trump: The Malignant Chauncey Gardener

[ Edited: 19 May 2017 17:26 by Cheshire Cat]
Image Attachments
 
Peter-Sellers_Trump.jpg
 
 
 
LordranBound
 
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LordranBound
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19 May 2017 18:06
 
Art Dodger - 19 May 2017 08:11 AM

Listen, I really object to Trump on many levels, but your engagement on this topic only reveals your bias.  These days, when someone tries to talk about US politics with me, I completely shut down the conversation because to defend or impugn the current administration is to degrade oneself.  This podcast is fundamentally flawed because your guests are representatives of one side of the political spectrum and the MSM, which makes me question your motives and connections.  Are you working on becoming a CNN contributor?  I honestly don’t have an opinion about these things, but pretending that there’s objective truth on these matters is to totally disregard the lessons you may not have learned from Jonathan Haidt.

I implore you to stop contributing to the childish discussion of Trump or I’ll have to turn you off.  If I wanted this shrill conversation of opinion politics, I would turn on MSM and chuckle at the stupidity of humanity.  All you are doing is revealing that hysteria and stupidity holds no boundaries and that people I respect are subject to idiocy as well.  Furthermore, I don’t think that everyone can compartmentalize your good ideas from your bad.

For the most part, very well said.

 
SkepticX
 
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SkepticX
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19 May 2017 19:03
 
Cheshire Cat - 19 May 2017 05:13 PM

Sam came up with a wonderful meme.

Trump: The Malignant Chauncey Gardener


I’ve started calling him President Clouseau.

 
 
Tullok
 
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Tullok
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19 May 2017 21:36
 
Celal - 19 May 2017 11:51 AM

Very disappointed in Sam, helping Dems push a big lie to take down Trump.  Sam and the liberals had taken a position against Trump last year and following the campaign results they continually show - including Sam - they are more interested being vindicated themselves than doing what is right! Like maintain honesty and integrity.

First Trump haters started a big lie , so called the “Dossier” about Trump and when that proved to be false and made up, they turned their attention elsewhere. Hoping Hillary would win and everyone would forget.

Then the unexpected happened. Trump won! Hillary lost!

This shocking event could only be explained with a new narrative. Not because Hillary was horrible candidate, but rather “Russians must have done it”.  Done what? I don’t know. Colluded how? I don’t know. Exactly how? I don’t know. What evidence is there?  None but “Russians must have done it”  Whatever it is. Just keep talking about it.

If honesty and integrity had prevailed, one would recall that;  Obama/Clinton had done more to appease Russians than any administration in recent history. For example…

- Obama scrapped the European Missile defense… 
- Obama/Clinton proposed to have a “reset” in Russia relations with a plastic red button…
- Obama/Clinton made fun of Romney when he said Russia was the enemy….
- Obama had the hot mike exchange with Russian President to a message to Putin that he would be more flexible after elections


This whole religiously vindictive/absurd charge about Russia appeasement came from Obama/Clinton team, not Trump. This none on the left denies, but no one cares.  Just keep the narrative going at all costs!

Yet, we have to listen to this nonsense. Sam should consider Maxine Waters to join him to provide further proof that Trump is a Russian agent, she can explain how Putin himself designed the Trump campaign strategy to call Hillary “Crooked Hillary” and even arranged people in Trump Campaign events to yell out “Lock Her up!”  That was all Putin.

Perhaps Sam can elevate quality of his discourse, at least with Maxine you get what you see. With Sam’s guests you get people who are masquerading as intellectual journalists. Then again Sam seems to be more interested with resume than substance, more ideology than truth.

Your response has very little relevance to statements that Sam Harris has made, or his two guests have made.  You seem to be reacting to something else and tying it to Sam’s neck.
What is this lie that Sam Harris is propagating?  It isn’t that Trump is colluding with Russia, as he’s made clear on multiple occasions, he thinks that is a red-herring of sorts, that misses the greater point and I have never heard him claim that it is true or even likely true.
What does Obama or Clinton have to do with this conversation?  Neither of them will ever be president in the future.
Sam’s criticism of Trump has always been that his character is what makes him unfit to be president, he references actions of Trump as evidence for his terrible decision making, his emotional and psychological instability and his total ignorance of how a government functions.
If you dispute these points (you know, ones that Sam has actually made) you should respond to them.

 
somenamehere
 
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somenamehere
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20 May 2017 06:29
 

So this Pulitzer winning journalist applebaum said that Obama never meet with the foreign minister in the white house.  just do a quick google check and you figure out that his is false. Why even listen to this stuff. its so biased. Sam should rather interview someone that challenges his view, instead of just patting each-others back which is also less entertaining. They also seems to just assume that he has a mental issue and builds arguments on that.

Also another thing sam does not understand is that you dont need to be a good speaker to be a good president. Actions is more important than you articulations. Its not like the best president, is the president that gives the best speech.  Obama was a lawyer and famous for being good at public speaking, its a huge change going from him to a businessman that speaks more like a car-salesman than a lawyer.  Trump want to use his speech to hype , he does not care about accuracy he does not speak to convey pure rational facts. he speak to motivate . which he does successfully.  So if you only analyze trump in one dimension you lose out on his qualities

if you actually believe that Russians wants to destabilize the west by somehow manipulate Trump into office. then the problem whit this, is that trump cant destroy USA even if he tried, some checks and balance are in place. and after 4 years or 8 he is out.  The real threat Russians can do. is to seed mistrust into the democracy. (which im sure they want to).  This means that first you get someone people hate into office, then you push people to think that they can justify a close to undemocratic removal (for the greater good). This actually puts democracy in serious danger and if Putin has a good plan, this is surly it

 
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