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The Problem of Islam

 
Bongobongo Smith
 
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Bongobongo Smith
Total Posts:  310
Joined  17-04-2008
 
 
 
01 August 2008 09:18
 
Jack Shooter - 31 July 2008 09:26 PM

...............
............
.......
.....
how can this be done for religious reasons?

Ask those who answered the questionnaire.
They specifiably answered a question about
suicide bombing and other forms of violence
against civilian targets

‘defending’ islam.
Not ‘political’ anything.

Why? I’ll take a wild guess;
Because they have been raised
having their heads pumped up with
religious hateful violence-applauding rubbish.

Jack Shooter - 31 July 2008 09:26 PM

.. Again, killing innocent people for any reason, is not justifiable in Islam…

Ha ha , you’re funny. In a sad way.
The quran call for and condone
killing all people that don’t believe
in the quran.
Guess they’re not ‘innocent’ in you mind,
nor are they according to the quran:

45:31 And as for those who disbelieved (it will be said unto them): Were not Our revelations recited unto you ? But ye were scornful and became a guilty folk.

Jack Shooter - 31 July 2008 09:26 PM

.. Again, killing innocent people for any reason, is not justifiable in Islam, and Muslims know this.

Well, quite obviously they do not,
....or maybe they are just good little muslims
who have read the quran , including the
verse quoted above.

[ Edited: 01 August 2008 09:54 by Bongobongo Smith]
 
 
zelzo
 
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zelzo
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01 August 2008 10:02
 

Jackshooter
The fact that a 9 year old female, by virtue of reaching puberty, is considered an adult in many cultures, falls on your deaf ears, or perhaps you think a person becomes an adult whenever the government of the day says so.  Regardless of what you think, females are having sex at 9, 10, 11, and even giving birth as early as 12, 13, 14 years of age, in my country and your country.  To deny this is delusional on your part.

As to the courts, unfortunately, they are not always reasonable.  The legitimizing of same-sex unions is just one example.  Likewise, I don’t take whatever their position is about the age of consent for sex very seriously, neither would you if you weren’t such a trend follower.
What can I say, lindajean, for a female, you make a pretty good jack ass of yourself when you respond to the facts I present you with by claiming sex with a 9 year old within the confines of marriage constitutes rape.

In the end, you need to stop being so ageist.  There are probably countless 9 year old girls, teens, adults rather, who possess a level of maturity that is far greater than a 30 year old.  In fact, I’m sure many young female adults could even teach you a few things about how to run your life.

I am not denying minors do not have sex.  So there is nothing to be delusional about.  I am making a statement that in civilized society, a 9 year old cannot give consent to have sex with an adult.  In civilized society, an adult having sex with a 9 year old is always rape and an adult will go to prison for such an act.

In contrast, barbaric societies, where sharia law dictates, no such laws exist.

It has nothing to do with “mature” 9 year olds.  It has to do with civilized law and barbarism.

 
 
arildno
 
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arildno
Total Posts:  1290
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01 August 2008 15:13
 

Since unbelievers are, per definition, WORSE than murderers in Islam, it follows that in Islamic thinking, unbelievers are not innocent, and hence up for chops.
Again, Jack is practicing taqiyyah.

 
Dee
 
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Dee
Total Posts:  741
Joined  11-10-2007
 
 
 
01 August 2008 23:26
 

I’m one for brief ( I try ! ) and straightforward expressions ; if someone asked me how I’d sum up Islam in a nutshell I would have to answer this :

                      INHUMANE


That’s all you need to recognize and understand when you consider that religion. Then take it from there.

 
isocratic infidel
 
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isocratic infidel
Total Posts:  1054
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02 August 2008 12:07
 

The problem of islam is the same problem of ALL revealed religions: It’s based on believing or trusting that the one claiming (in islam’s case the prophet mu-h) to have had the “revelation(s)” actually had contact with “divine” spirit(s) or energies.

Now Jack here, has decided that he believes that the ancient warlord actually did make contact with “allah’s angels” (if not allah himself). He defends abhorrent behaviour (wedding—as opposed to merely adopting—a six-year-old, and eventually vaginally penetrating this same nine-year-old) because he actually believes an all merciful god gave his “object of love” permission to do so.

Please Jack, consider carefully the definition of god you are embracing. Do you REALLY believe that an all merciful being would give the A-Okay for a man to engage in such behaviour? Wouldn’t an all knowing, just and merciful being have revealed the facts: nine-year-old brains and bodies are still developing. Wouldn’t god have known this before contemporary man discovered or recognized this fact? In other words,  IF muhammed’s revelation was indeed divine wouldn’t he have let the sheepherding warlord in on this basic and pertinent biological fact?

It is also highly unlikely that Ayesha was menstruating at age nine… it’s not common now, nor was it common then. While lifespan has changed, the onset of puberty in human beings has been basically consistent. Either way, the FACT is Jack, Ayesha was a little girl, not a physically, mentally or emotionally “mature” female in your or anyone else’s culture and any culture, past or present, that says it is so, are wrong by virtue of the BIOLOGICAL FACTS.

[ Edited: 02 August 2008 12:12 by isocratic infidel]
 
 
arildno
 
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arildno
Total Posts:  1290
Joined  26-12-2006
 
 
 
03 August 2008 05:20
 

Isocratic infidel:
It is worse than that:
We are living in what is essentially called the “revolution” in the onset age of menarche.

For the most part, up till the 19th and early 20th century, it was common that girls had the menarche when they where 15-16 years old.

In the 20th century, with improved dietary habits, the “revolution” in the onset age of menarche has decreased to typically 12 years of age.

In connection with this, it means that 9 as the age of menarche was even more of an extreme case in the 7th century than it also is today.
Thus, the probability that a girl had attained puberty then at that age is significantly lower than it is today.
See for example:
http://www.mum.org/menarage.htm

A table over average menarche age along with a graph for the historical evolution of the onset age from 1860 on is provided in that link.

[ Edited: 05 August 2008 07:30 by arildno]
 
zelzo
 
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zelzo
Total Posts:  2029
Joined  20-12-2007
 
 
 
05 August 2008 07:21
 
Dee - 02 August 2008 03:26 AM

I’m one for brief ( I try ! ) and straightforward expressions ; if someone asked me how I’d sum up Islam in a nutshell I would have to answer this :

                      INHUMANE


That’s all you need to recognize and understand when you consider that religion. Then take it from there.

Good description and especially true when it becomes theocratic law.  It reminds me of this quote by Harold Laski:

“Civilization means, above all, an unwillingness to inflict unnecessary pain.”

As I said mentioned earlier to Jack—- barbarism v civilization.

 
 
Nod
 
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Nod
Total Posts:  64
Joined  01-08-2008
 
 
 
09 August 2008 22:39
 

It takes bad religion to make not so good people to do evil things. And it can ONLY take religion to transform the lives of bad people to very good people. Nobody ever heard of a robber or rapist repenting by reading Richard Dawkins or Sam Harris. However there are countless examples of people rising from the depths of sin and evil to height of good and piety by reading the Qur’an or encountering true faith.

Great job turning sinners into wife beating, misogynistic, deluded, closed minded, suicidal, hubristic, oppressive, archaic, short tempered megalomaniacs. Welcome to the 21st century, you might want to update your ideas from the previous millennium.

 
Jack Shooter
 
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Jack Shooter
Total Posts:  863
Joined  23-01-2008
 
 
 
15 August 2008 19:43
 
bongobongo - 01 August 2008 01:18 PM
Jack Shooter - 31 July 2008 09:26 PM

...............
............
.......
.....
how can this be done for religious reasons?

Ask those who answered the questionnaire.
They specifiably answered a question about
suicide bombing and other forms of violence
against civilian targets

‘defending’ islam.
Not ‘political’ anything.

Why? I’ll take a wild guess;
Because they have been raised
having their heads pumped up with
religious hateful violence-applauding rubbish.

Jack Shooter - 31 July 2008 09:26 PM

.. Again, killing innocent people for any reason, is not justifiable in Islam…

Ha ha , you’re funny. In a sad way.
The quran call for and condone
killing all people that don’t believe
in the quran.
Guess they’re not ‘innocent’ in you mind,
nor are they according to the quran:

45:31 And as for those who disbelieved (it will be said unto them): Were not Our revelations recited unto you ? But ye were scornful and became a guilty folk.

Jack Shooter - 31 July 2008 09:26 PM

.. Again, killing innocent people for any reason, is not justifiable in Islam, and Muslims know this.

Well, quite obviously they do not,
....or maybe they are just good little muslims
who have read the quran , including the
verse quoted above.

Your analysis reflects the simplicity of someone who plays bongo drums for a living.  No offense if that is what you do.  It’s just you should stick to what you do best, instead of pretending to be able to analyse or critique religious texts.  You didn’t answer my post at all but to suggest that the Qur’an condones the killing of innocent people - thats news to me and anyone else who has actually read the Qur’an.  But good luck trying to spread your propoganda.

 
Jack Shooter
 
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Jack Shooter
Total Posts:  863
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15 August 2008 20:03
 
isocratic infidel - 02 August 2008 04:07 PM

The problem of islam is the same problem of ALL revealed religions: It’s based on believing or trusting that the one claiming (in islam’s case the prophet mu-h) to have had the “revelation(s)” actually had contact with “divine” spirit(s) or energies.

Now Jack here, has decided that he believes that the ancient warlord actually did make contact with “allah’s angels” (if not allah himself). He defends abhorrent behaviour (wedding—as opposed to merely adopting—a six-year-old, and eventually vaginally penetrating this same nine-year-old) because he actually believes an all merciful god gave his “object of love” permission to do so.

Please Jack, consider carefully the definition of god you are embracing. Do you REALLY believe that an all merciful being would give the A-Okay for a man to engage in such behaviour? Wouldn’t an all knowing, just and merciful being have revealed the facts: nine-year-old brains and bodies are still developing. Wouldn’t god have known this before contemporary man discovered or recognized this fact? In other words,  IF muhammed’s revelation was indeed divine wouldn’t he have let the sheepherding warlord in on this basic and pertinent biological fact?

It is also highly unlikely that Ayesha was menstruating at age nine… it’s not common now, nor was it common then. While lifespan has changed, the onset of puberty in human beings has been basically consistent. Either way, the FACT is Jack, Ayesha was a little girl, not a physically, mentally or emotionally “mature” female in your or anyone else’s culture and any culture, past or present, that says it is so, are wrong by virtue of the BIOLOGICAL FACTS.

Congrats on putting together another series of amazingly ignorant statements.  It’s surprising that even with the advent of the internet, people could remain so ignorant.

Anyway, just because you never matured once you hit nine years old, doesn’t mean this is impossible for other women.  There are plenty besides me that say females can menstruate at age nine, so someone here is off when it comes to the BIOLOGICAL FACTS.  I think, nay, I know, it is you.

http://www.teenpuberty.com/index.php?section=female&page=femchanges

http://womens-health.health-cares.net/menstruation-age.php

http://www.womenshealth.gov/faq/menstru.htm#f

 
Jack Shooter
 
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Jack Shooter
Total Posts:  863
Joined  23-01-2008
 
 
 
15 August 2008 20:08
 
arildno - 03 August 2008 09:20 AM

Isocratic infidel:
It is worse than that:
We are living in what is essentially called the “revolution” in the onset age of menarche.

For the most part, up till the 19th and early 20th century, it was common that girls had the menarche when they where 15-16 years old.

In the 20th century, with improved dietary habits, the “revolution” in the onset age of menarche has decreased to typically 12 years of age.

In connection with this, it means that 9 as the age of menarche was even more of an extreme case in the 7th century than it also is today.
Thus, the probability that a girl had attained puberty then at that age is significantly lower than it is today.
See for example:
http://www.mum.org/menarage.htm

A table over average menarche age along with a graph for the historical evolution of the onset age from 1860 on is provided in that link.

So what?  Is your babbling trying to suggest that it was not possible for a female to menstruate by age 9 years old?  That assertion is contrary to the evidence.  Moron.

 
Jack Shooter
 
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Jack Shooter
Total Posts:  863
Joined  23-01-2008
 
 
 
15 August 2008 20:12
 
lindajean - 01 August 2008 02:02 PM

Jackshooter
The fact that a 9 year old female, by virtue of reaching puberty, is considered an adult in many cultures, falls on your deaf ears, or perhaps you think a person becomes an adult whenever the government of the day says so.  Regardless of what you think, females are having sex at 9, 10, 11, and even giving birth as early as 12, 13, 14 years of age, in my country and your country.  To deny this is delusional on your part.

As to the courts, unfortunately, they are not always reasonable.  The legitimizing of same-sex unions is just one example.  Likewise, I don’t take whatever their position is about the age of consent for sex very seriously, neither would you if you weren’t such a trend follower.
What can I say, lindajean, for a female, you make a pretty good jack ass of yourself when you respond to the facts I present you with by claiming sex with a 9 year old within the confines of marriage constitutes rape.

In the end, you need to stop being so ageist.  There are probably countless 9 year old girls, teens, adults rather, who possess a level of maturity that is far greater than a 30 year old.  In fact, I’m sure many young female adults could even teach you a few things about how to run your life.

I am not denying minors do not have sex.  So there is nothing to be delusional about.  I am making a statement that in civilized society, a 9 year old cannot give consent to have sex with an adult.  In civilized society, an adult having sex with a 9 year old is always rape and an adult will go to prison for such an act.

In contrast, barbaric societies, where sharia law dictates, no such laws exist.

It has nothing to do with “mature” 9 year olds.  It has to do with civilized law and barbarism.

Your definition of a civilized world is confused.  You have no sense of the way things ought to be with respect to morality, and you even admit this yourself.  So please spare me the talk about what constitutes civilization.

 
Jack Shooter
 
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Jack Shooter
Total Posts:  863
Joined  23-01-2008
 
 
 
15 August 2008 20:25
 
arildno - 01 August 2008 07:13 PM

Since unbelievers are, per definition, WORSE than murderers in Islam, it follows that in Islamic thinking, unbelievers are not innocent, and hence up for chops.
Again, Jack is practicing taqiyyah.

Liar.  If what you say is true, show us any such ruling from any book of jurisprudence from any school of Islamic thought.  It’s easy to misquote the Qur’an based on your ignorance, but show us where your ignorant claims are supported by Islamic law itself.

 
zelzo
 
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zelzo
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15 August 2008 20:26
 
Jack Shooter - 16 August 2008 12:08 AM

So what?  Is your babbling trying to suggest that it was not possible for a female to menstruate by age 9 years old?  That assertion is contrary to the evidence.  Moron.

Jack, whether one 9 year old or 10,000 nine year olds began to menstruate at that age is irrelevant. The point being (once again) is that condoning such an act (sex with her) by today’s standard is barbaric and will land you in prison.  Unless of course you live in antiquated tribal community that is dictated by Sharia law. Because we know through the work of science, neurology and psychology that a 9 year old girl is not developmentally able to make consensual decisions and reason as adults do.  Just as she is not developmentally able to make decisions about driving a car safely, entering into a legal contract or voting. A nine year old child is exactly that and even on the rare occasion one might be menstruating, we would not call her a 9 year old “woman.”  Because, you see Jack, there is a BIG difference between a “girl” and a “woman” and quite obviously, you have no idea what that actually is.

 
 
zelzo
 
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zelzo
Total Posts:  2029
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15 August 2008 20:33
 
Jack Shooter - 16 August 2008 12:12 AM

Your definition of a civilized world is confused.  You have no sense of the way things ought to be with respect to morality, and you even admit this yourself.  So please spare me the talk about what constitutes civilization.

My definition is no different than the dictionary’s

which includes:

... cultured, cultivated, refined, polished, sophisticated; enlightened, educated, advanced, developed.

Any culture that condones raping a 9 year old (through marriage) is not any of these.

 
 
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