Secular Government = Democide

Total Posts:  38
Joined  16-06-2006
05 October 2006 19:37

[quote author=“Anonymous”]Please answer:

1. How does an atheistic secularist defend the concept of human rights? Where do they come from? Are they inherent or granted by the State?

2. Why have ALL the secular States in History slaughtered their own people in massive numbers - Democide? The French Revolution, the Socialist & Communist Regimes of Europe and around the world, National Socialism, post-Christian America and Europe (with the exception of places like Ireland and Poland which still have Christian Constitutions)?
Why do so called Rational and Secular Revolutions result in massacres of the citizens?

I submit to you that where God is removed from society, there is no longer a “check” on the State. The State becomes a god - by arrogating to itself the presumption of all power and all knowledge.  Everywhere we see secularism in the State, we see the emergence of massive Democide, without exception.

Please make a defense of secularism’s own historical record.

Please make a defense of human rights from a secular basis.

First: Human rights.

Government does not give rights to individuals (nor does an imaginary omnipotent being); individuals have those rights when they enter this world.  Our rights are not endowed to us by government, but rather enhanced and restrained by government.  Within nature I have the right to do whatever I want.  I can murder, rape, steal, pillage with answering only to myself and my own guilt as associated by my empathy toward others.  However, the laws of nature dictate that the strongest individual will be able to obtain the most rights for themselves and oppress the most rights of others (whether through killing, intimidation, or persuasion).  Government inhibits the rights of individuals to be only those things which do not infringe on other peoples freedoms and liberties to pursue there own happiness.  In this way a person who is under the laws of a free society is not allowed to kill, intimidate, steal or rape others, since that would all infringe on another’s ability at obtaining happiness for themselves.  In this way government does not grant the right of people to seek there own happiness but enables people to better achieve that right by protecting the individual from others who would otherwise overpower that individual within nature. 
Rights are not something given to us; they are merely the freedoms that every individual is capable of.

Secondly secular states being beneficial.

I will quote Harris directly from Letter to a Christian Nation for this one:

“Norway, Iceland, Australia, Canada, Sweden, Switzerland, Belgium, Japan, the Netherlands, Denmark, and the United Kingdom are among the least religious societies on earth.  According to the Unided Nations’ Human Development Report (2005) they are also the healthiest, as indicated b life expentancy, adult literacy, per capita income, educational attainment, gender equality, homicide rate, and infant mortality… Conversely, the fifty nations now ranked lowest in terms of the United Nations’ human development index are unwaveringly religious.” (Harris, p. 43-44). 

Next time please actually read Harris before making ignorant statements.

Finally, “God” does not put a check on government, the people do. You need go no further than the Declaration of Independece for this one:

“To secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.”

Also, Locke, Rousseau, and Madison can give further details.

Total Posts:  1
Joined  19-02-2014
19 February 2014 17:57

‘make Reason into an idol of atheistic worship’
ooo ‘Reason’ with a capital ‘R’. What are you gibbering about? Reason is the capacity of making sense of things. Valuing that capacity is not ‘Idolatry’. Are you suggesting we shouldn’t value reason?

Total Posts:  3
Joined  13-11-2014
21 November 2014 09:09
Hoggz - 19 February 2014 05:57 PM

‘make Reason into an idol of atheistic worship’
ooo ‘Reason’ with a capital ‘R’. What are you gibbering about? Reason is the capacity of making sense of things. Valuing that capacity is not ‘Idolatry’. Are you suggesting we shouldn’t value reason?

Don’t even bother with these types of fucking idiots. I know I can’t change the world but I’m brazen and shameless enough in real life to outright laugh, mock and criticize believers IN PUBLIC. Im serious. I look them in the eye, laugh and call them a fucking idiot. If I have to, Im well articulated in arguing intellectually and destroying faith arguments whether they be for the falsely supposed ethical benefit of belief or the bullshit proofs for gods existence.

Its my goal to literally embarrass and hurt their feelings and disrespect their crazy beliefs. I do not agree with using humor to win people over. This is no laughing matter and using that strategy comes off as accepting their beliefs which I do not. Sure they’re free to believe whatever they want and say whatever they want. They are also free to be screamed at, mocked, publicly humiliated, criticized etc….


Total Posts:  288
Joined  13-11-2014
27 November 2014 14:23

I’m not sure that mockery is a good idea. I suppose it depends what your motives are. If they’re to make fun of someone like a school yard bully, then absolutely, it’s a choice method of attack, but if you’re motives to engage others in a meaningful debate over the concept of no god, then you should probably look for a more effective means of communication.