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Some funny climatic shit happening. Should we worry?

 
GAD
 
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GAD
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08 December 2012 19:51
 
Larry Olson - 08 December 2012 06:35 PM
Jezuz_Alrighty - 30 November 2012 11:51 PM

Pollution and the overpopulation of humans, is a much larger threat to life on Earth.  Al Gore named his book about the subject quite aptly I think.

Depends. If you do the math, the more humans that are born, the more chance one of those humans will be an Einstein to figure out a solution to the problem. The less humans that are born, the less chance an Einstein will be born since Einstein’s are very rare and you need millions of people to have one einstein available.

Ya that’s the answer, lets have 20 billion people so we can find one smart enough to tell us that having 20 billion people was the wrong answer. So your math sucks.

Al Gore owns a mansion that produces far more global warming than any one of us in our small homes, so why doesn’t Al Gore sell his mansion and buy a small house?  I never listen to people who are hypocrites.  Penn and Teller bullsh*t series had a show about Al Gore.

2+2=4 even when calculated by hypocrites and liars. So your philosophy isn’t any better then your math.

 
 
EN
 
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EN
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08 December 2012 20:55
 

Rising sea levels?  Build floating cities. 

Super storms abounding?  Learn to harness their energy and save it with super batteries.

Life gives you lemons?  Make lemonade.

 
GAD
 
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GAD
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08 December 2012 21:47
 
Ecurb Noselrub - 08 December 2012 07:55 PM

Rising sea levels?  Build floating cities. 

Super storms abounding?  Learn to harness their energy and save it with super batteries.

Life gives you lemons?  Make lemonade.

Wouldn’t,

if you turn your world into a lemon, make lemonade

be more appropriate?

 
 
goodgraydrab
 
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goodgraydrab
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09 December 2012 02:08
 
Jezuz_Alrighty - 30 November 2012 04:26 PM

Ohh shit! The sky really IS falling! We better prop it back up. At any expense. Never mind the magnetic field of the Earth, or any one of a million other variables that affect the temperature. The wobble cycle of the planet or the cycles of the sun may have something to do with it too. Meteorologic record keeping, is fine and noting changes is interesting. It is indeed noteworthy, that the temperature is rising. Pointing the finger at a causality, is quite another thing. Lets not fall into our old habits, of paying the most attention to those, who flap their arms the hardest. Gloom and doom sells the books like no other subject. The reporter is going to point the camera at something interesting. He has potato chips and laundry soap adds to show. The calm reasonable voice, sells far less cars and boner pills. As usual, the sky is not falling and if it was, nothing could stop it. So make it a double!

Calm and reasonable? I’m trying to give you credit for reasoned thought here ... but I can’t. If there are a million and one variables, then that’s how many we have on our plate to study. If all you see are flapping arms, you don’t care enough to pay attention.

 
 
Skipshot
 
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Skipshot
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09 December 2012 05:44
 

Answerer, JA isn’t a climate change denier from how I read his post, but instead, like me, is trying to get solutions without causing a serious disruption to society.  The climate change alarm is sounded and recognized, but what is to be done about it without making us go back to the 19th century?  Of course, if we don’t do something about the pressure we are putting on the planet then Mother Nature will and we won’t have a say in how she does it.

My conservation efforts include replacing light bulbs, installing energy efficient windows and appliances,  insulating my house, combining as many errands as I can when driving a fuel efficient car, composting, recycling paper, plastic and metals, my wife carpools to work, and my garden has drought tolerant native plants and my gardening tools are manual.  I investigated solar panels for my house but the cost didn’t justify the savings but only because of the very mild climate of my city (AC is not needed in Oakland, and the lows of winter nights are in the 40’s), and I BYOB (bring your own bag) for grocery shopping which I do at a local market which sells locally sourced meat and produce.  What else is there for me to do to save the planet?

I’m pretty sure the answer has a lot to do with industrial polluters, but that battle is being wage by proxy lobbyists in Washington.  I believe the solution will be a reaction to the effects rather than any proactive efforts, and you can bet your left nut that no oil will be left in the ground while money may be made from it.

 
goodgraydrab
 
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09 December 2012 06:01
 
Skipshot - 09 December 2012 04:44 AM

Answerer, JA isn’t a climate change denier from how I read his post, but instead, like me, is trying to get solutions without causing a serious disruption to society.  The climate change alarm is sounded and recognized, but what is to be done about it without making us go back to the 19th century?  Of course, if we don’t do something about the pressure we are putting on the planet then Mother Nature will and we won’t have a say in how she does it.

My conservation efforts include replacing light bulbs, installing energy efficient windows and appliances,  insulating my house, combining as many errands as I can when driving a fuel efficient car, composting, recycling paper, plastic and metals, my wife carpools to work, and my garden has drought tolerant native plants and my gardening tools are manual.  I investigated solar panels for my house but the cost didn’t justify the savings but only because of the very mild climate of my city (AC is not needed in Oakland, and the lows of winter nights are in the 40’s), and I BYOB (bring your own bag) for grocery shopping which I do at a local market which sells locally sourced meat and produce.  What else is there for me to do to save the planet?

I’m pretty sure the answer has a lot to do with industrial polluters, but that battle is being wage by proxy lobbyists in Washington.  I believe the solution will be a reaction to the effects rather than any proactive efforts, and you can bet your left nut that no oil will be left in the ground while money may be made from it.

You make good points, Skippy, but I read JA as somewhat of a denier. It seems to me he questioned the science, which not only includes evidence of the contributions by man but also the estimated forecast of effects. I agree with you, the solutions will be a reaction to the effects and much more drastic than it should have been. I don’t think the problem is going back to the 19th century as much as it is lighting a fire under our asses and jettisoning us into the 21st.

 
 
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09 December 2012 15:00
 

Answerer, I sure hope you aren’t a closet Alex Jones watcher. Con trails? Wow. The article starts off with misinformation and builds on it. Contrails are ice crystals, that form from condensed water vapor when the wings of an airplane pressurize the air in front of them. The same thing can happen in the engine. Sure, a jet can dump out huge amounts of exhaust but when an article starts off with bullshit, its hard for me to trust any science it may claim. 
Climate change happens. It has happened in the past, well before mans industrial endeavors. To clear it up, I am not a denier. It is happening and odds are good, that we have something to do with both its speed and intensity.
I was just like you Skip. I did everything I could, within reason, to reduce my footprint.  Then I got a job as a building maintenance engineer, in a mid sized truck shop. One of thousands, across the country. I saw what went down the drain and what wend into the landfill, I spent so much effort trying to minimize. Reality sets in. While we spend effort to help our environment, the corporations outdo us exponentially.  I control the environment in my own house the best I can. No pesticides and cleaners that have low VOC and I use them sparingly. Even then, the tire factory 5 miles away, dumps god knows what, into the air I am forced to breath.
Next time you are at the supermarket. Take a look down the cleaning isle. Look at everything. The drain cleaners and the oven cleaners the laundry soap and all the rest. all of it. 90% of that shit, will go down the drain. The rest in the air and landfill. Now think of all the stores in the world with the same crap, all at the ready. Ready to make our life a bit easier and kill the planet a little piece at a time.  How many companies profit from this mass pollution? How many people do they employ? We wouldn’t produce this mess, just to dump it in our environment. We do it to make money.  So while humanity sits around, wondering why cancer is rampant and the bee’s are dying off,  we start to worry about the carbon. The temperature. The sea level. I don’t at all deny global warming. Its not rainbows coming out of all those exhaust pipes. Its heat and hundreds of other chemicals, that don’t belong in our environment. I just argue how high on the scale, its important’s merits. Either way, the genie is out of the bottle. That’s why I don’t get to worked up about it. Spilled milk.

 
 
goodgraydrab
 
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09 December 2012 16:30
 
Jezuz_Alrighty - 09 December 2012 02:00 PM

Answerer, I sure hope you aren’t a closet Alex Jones watcher. Con trails? Wow. The article starts off with misinformation and builds on it. Contrails are ice crystals, that form from condensed water vapor when the wings of an airplane pressurize the air in front of them. The same thing can happen in the engine. Sure, a jet can dump out huge amounts of exhaust but when an article starts off with bullshit, its hard for me to trust any science it may claim. 

...

I don’t at all deny global warming. Its not rainbows coming out of all those exhaust pipes. Its heat and hundreds of other chemicals, that don’t belong in our environment. I just argue how high on the scale, its important’s merits. Either way, the genie is out of the bottle. That’s why I don’t get to worked up about it. Spilled milk.

Well, you don’t deny global warming’s contribution by man, you just question its seriousness, degree and/or our ability to mitigate it that would make any significant difference. That’s what I’m understanding.

Since I’m not a scientist or engineer, I can’t defend the chemical process defined in the article, but I would hardly say it’s bullshit. The point is, as you say, stuff is coming out of the exhausts and a unique opportunity was seized upon to do a controlled study under conditions that rarely present themselves. So far, any discussion/article I’ve heard or read since the study was conducted in 2001 has been in terms of sound science, and a representation of only one of the million and one variables of which you speak.

 
 
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09 December 2012 17:09
 

Warning: serious question coming soon - OK, we had a bunch of Ice Ages, in at least one of which there was a two mile thick sheet of ice over Canada and the north USA. Then the earth warmed and it melted.  I’ve read that this had to do with the earth’s “wobble” on it’s axis, which it still has.  Obviously, humans didn’t cause it, since the most we could do back then was build a few wood fires.  So, if natural conditions caused those climate changes, why can’t that be at least part of the cause of the current warming?  Please explain.  I’m not denying warming or that we contributed.  Just want to know how to distinguish between natural and man-made causes for the current situation.

 
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09 December 2012 17:39
 
Ecurb Noselrub - 09 December 2012 04:09 PM

Warning: serious question coming soon - OK, we had a bunch of Ice Ages, in at least one of which there was a two mile thick sheet of ice over Canada and the north USA. Then the earth warmed and it melted.  I’ve read that this had to do with the earth’s “wobble” on it’s axis, which it still has.  Obviously, humans didn’t cause it, since the most we could do back then was build a few wood fires.  So, if natural conditions caused those climate changes, why can’t that be at least part of the cause of the current warming?  Please explain.  I’m not denying warming or that we contributed.  Just want to know how to distinguish between natural and man-made causes for the current situation.

From the Union of Concerned Scientists.

 
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09 December 2012 17:49
 
Hannah2 - 09 December 2012 04:39 PM

From the Union of Concerned Scientists.

Nice synopsis for this lazy man.  Thanks.

 
eudemonia
 
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10 December 2012 00:30
 

‘So, if natural conditions caused those climate changes, why can’t that be at least part of the cause of the current warming?  ‘

Bruce, once again, you are an idiot. It is part of it, but a really minor part.

Just do this link, and like I have told countless others, spend some time on this website, that answers ALL questions about global warming, and all denialist ideas. It even has basic and intermediate answers.

http://www.skepticalscience.com/climate-change-little-ice-age-medieval-warm-period.htm

 
 
eudemonia
 
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10 December 2012 00:34
 

as a follow up I would point out here the basic problem. Religious people, Like Bruce, as likeable and open minded as most people here think he is, do not actually care about and study real science.

Bottom line.

If they diverted at least part their daily or weekly prayer group studies to Science Daily, oh what great homo sapiens they could become.

 
 
Jezuz_Alrighty
 
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10 December 2012 01:42
 
Epaminondas - 09 December 2012 11:30 PM

‘So, if natural conditions caused those climate changes, why can’t that be at least part of the cause of the current warming?  ‘

Bruce, once again, you are an idiot. It is part of it, but a really minor part.

Just do this link, and like I have told countless others, spend some time on this website, that answers ALL questions about global warming, and all denialist ideas. It even has basic and intermediate answers.

http://www.skepticalscience.com/climate-change-little-ice-age-medieval-warm-period.htm

I love the photo shopped penguins at the top. Its on the internet, so it MUST be true. They have an answer for everything. No matter the question, it is dismissed. You will believe. It reminds me of some other institution, but I just can’t put my finger on it.  Embrace the only truth or you’re a fool… Who else barks like that here? Hmmmm.. I’ll figure it out.

 
 
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10 December 2012 02:42
 
Jezuz_Alrighty - 10 December 2012 12:42 AM
Epaminondas - 09 December 2012 11:30 PM

‘So, if natural conditions caused those climate changes, why can’t that be at least part of the cause of the current warming?  ‘

Bruce, once again, you are an idiot. It is part of it, but a really minor part.

Just do this link, and like I have told countless others, spend some time on this website, that answers ALL questions about global warming, and all denialist ideas. It even has basic and intermediate answers.

http://www.skepticalscience.com/climate-change-little-ice-age-medieval-warm-period.htm

I love the photo shopped penguins at the top. Its on the internet, so it MUST be true. They have an answer for everything. No matter the question, it is dismissed. You will believe. It reminds me of some other institution, but I just can’t put my finger on it.  Embrace the only truth or you’re a fool… Who else barks like that here? Hmmmm.. I’ll figure it out.

Epaminodas is an absolutist thinker. His religion is whatever he reads in the books of his popes. He’s never had an original thought in his life. He channels the thoughts of others.

 
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