‹ First  < 5 6 7
 
   
 

The Properties of Perception-Dependent Reality

 
Jeff M
 
Avatar
 
 
Jeff M
Total Posts:  1644
Joined  08-10-2010
 
 
 
07 January 2013 22:05
 
Antisocialdarwinist - 07 January 2013 07:16 PM
Answerer - 07 January 2013 04:52 PM

I think by accident, this is the closest we’ve come to agreement, but still the gaping hole of a proper framework and your errant analogy is evident IMO. Right, “the reality of the universe with “us” in it as beauty-perceiving beings must include beauty,” without which “beauty” would not exist, just as with right/wrong. Similarly, there are internal and external measures that comprise a categorical range for the given phenomena or experience, and I’m not speaking of subjective or arbitrary choice, I mean common specific physiological and mechanistic responses to certain stimuli.

Not by accident.

At least you’re being internally consistent by taking the position that beauty exists alongside right and wrong, i.e., that beauty, right and wrong are all “ises.” Therefore, from the standpoint of deriving ought from is, oughts derived from the “is” of beauty are just as valid as oughts derived from the “is” of right and wrong. Agree?

In my view “just as valid” depends on the circumstances.  Subjective beauty appropriately determines right and wrong in many senses, as with the decisions of an artist in placing the brushstrokes on a masterpiece.  In the case of implementing an asteroid diversion system, more objective criteria are in order.  Both the canvas and the asteroid diversion vehicle are “isis”, but guess what, when we are discussing right and wrong about the two, I believe it is wise to understand that we are likely discussing wright and wrong in different senses of the word.  The fact that they are all “isis” is not remotely the most important point at hand.

Antisocialdarwinist - 07 January 2013 07:16 PM

For example, if women with large breasts are more beautiful than women with small breasts, then small-breasted women ought to get breast implants. If they can’t afford them, then public health care ought to subsidize them.

 

OBVIOUSLY, there could never be an answer for that, beauty and right and wrong are all “isis” after all.

Antisocialdarwinist - 07 January 2013 07:16 PM

If you don’t agree that women with large breasts are objectively more beautiful than women with small breasts, then pick something you agree is objectively beautiful and we’ll derive an ought from that, instead.

I will, thank you very much smile

 
Antisocialdarwinist
 
Avatar
 
 
Antisocialdarwinist
Total Posts:  5940
Joined  08-12-2006
 
 
 
07 January 2013 23:16
 
Jeff M - 07 January 2013 09:05 PM

Subjective beauty appropriately determines right and wrong in many senses, as with the decisions of an artist in placing the brushstrokes on a masterpiece.

If beauty “is” then “subjective beauty” is an oxymoron, just like “subjective wrong” is an oxymoron if wrong “is.” It’s like saying, “the subjective boiling point of water.”

 
 
Jeff M
 
Avatar
 
 
Jeff M
Total Posts:  1644
Joined  08-10-2010
 
 
 
08 January 2013 01:09
 
Antisocialdarwinist - 07 January 2013 10:16 PM
Jeff M - 07 January 2013 09:05 PM

Subjective beauty appropriately determines right and wrong in many senses, as with the decisions of an artist in placing the brushstrokes on a masterpiece.

If beauty “is” then “subjective beauty” is an oxymoron, just like “subjective wrong” is an oxymoron if wrong “is.” It’s like saying, “the subjective boiling point of water.”

Beauty can be felt and described in many senses.  At a minimum it exists as a state in our body/mind experience that we report as beauty.  In that sense, it ‘is’.  I do not see any way"subjective beauty” is an oxymoron in that sense. 

There are also subjective senses of right and wrong, and there are more objectively defined senses. 

Using ‘beauty’, ‘right’ and ‘wrong’ as broadly as you did is senseless, literally.

[ Edited: 08 January 2013 01:15 by Jeff M]
 
Antisocialdarwinist
 
Avatar
 
 
Antisocialdarwinist
Total Posts:  5940
Joined  08-12-2006
 
 
 
08 January 2013 01:48
 
Jeff M - 08 January 2013 12:09 AM

There are also subjective senses of right and wrong, and there are more objectively defined senses.

Stoning adulteresses: subjectively wrong or objectively wrong? What distinguishes between the two?

 
 
‹ First  < 5 6 7