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What’s wrong with Joseph Stalin?

 
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EN
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17 August 2010 01:12
 

Joseph Stalin lived to be 74 years old, ruled the Soviet Union for about 30 years, ate and drank what he wanted, had sex with whom he wanted, went where he wanted, did what he wanted, enjoyed American Western movies when he wanted at his dacha, killed whom he wanted, tortured whom he wanted, and finally died like the rest of us will - but he only suffered about 4 days after a stroke. I ask you, what’s wrong with that?  Why shouldn’t he have done what he did? So he killed a few million people - he had a great life.

 
W. Collins
 
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17 August 2010 02:44
 
Ecurb Noselrub - 16 August 2010 11:12 PM

Joseph Stalin lived to be 74 years old, ruled the Soviet Union for about 30 years, ate and drank what he wanted, had sex with whom he wanted, went where he wanted, did what he wanted, enjoyed American Western movies when he wanted at his dacha, killed whom he wanted, tortured whom he wanted, and finally died like the rest of us will - but he only suffered about 4 days after a stroke. I ask you, what’s wrong with that?  Why shouldn’t he have done what he did? So he killed a few million people - he had a great life.

This is just the Genghis Khan thing wrapped in a red hammer and sickle flag. Your queries have been answered before.

I think an equally valid question would be: Why would a loving god allow people like Stalin to do as they wished, despite the harm to others?

 
 
SkepticX
 
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17 August 2010 02:48
 

What’s really at issue here is why Bruce is so obviously invested in pretending these issues haven’t been answered already, and why he’s apparently so carefully avoiding doing his homework while pretending to be interested in the answer to a question that’s not remotely difficult to research.

 
 
Brick Bungalow
 
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17 August 2010 03:33
 

This variety of question is ironic on multiple levels. Like pointedly asking an atheist ‘whats wrong with rape?’ or something similar.

This is either:

A. A rhetorical question or some other variety of conversational ruse.

B. A reflection of the fact that the person asking honestly doesn’t know.

Either way, it hardly lends credit to its source. Either way its an absurd and irrelevant cliche.

There ARE pressing and profound moral questions that atheists must ask of themselves but this isn’t one of them.

 
GAD
 
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17 August 2010 04:18
 

I’ll play. So, why shouldn’t he have done what he did? If there is a god he did what he did despite him, therefore you cannot make any god claim as to why he shouldn’t have done what he did. And obviously he wasn’t worried about gods, yours or anyone elses moral judgment of him. So if you can do it, and you don’t care what others think, then doing what you want is exactly what you would do. So, why shouldn’t he have done what he did?

 
 
burt
 
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17 August 2010 04:18
 

You’ve got to factor in the internal paranoia and isolation: In the 9th circle of the Inferno, they are frozen in ice.  He probably didn’t even trust his grand kids.

 
saralynn
 
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17 August 2010 11:42
 

Stalin orignially intended to become a priest, but, got tossed out of seminary school.  I guess politics was more inspiring than theology.

 
Dennis Campbell
 
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17 August 2010 13:44
 
Ecurb Noselrub - 16 August 2010 11:12 PM

Joseph Stalin lived to be 74 years old, ruled the Soviet Union for about 30 years, ate and drank what he wanted, had sex with whom he wanted, went where he wanted, did what he wanted, enjoyed American Western movies when he wanted at his dacha, killed whom he wanted, tortured whom he wanted, and finally died like the rest of us will - but he only suffered about 4 days after a stroke. I ask you, what’s wrong with that?  Why shouldn’t he have done what he did? So he killed a few million people - he had a great life.

Does not say much for the impact of any god, does it?  Pol pot did much the same thing.  Your point?

 
 
goodgraydrab
 
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17 August 2010 14:23
 
Ecurb Noselrub - 16 August 2010 11:12 PM

I ask you, what’s wrong with that?  Why shouldn’t he have done what he did? So he killed a few million people - he had a great life.

Notice he’s asking us ... not God. I feel special.

 
 
Dennis Campbell
 
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17 August 2010 14:26
 
goodgraydrab - 17 August 2010 12:23 PM
Ecurb Noselrub - 16 August 2010 11:12 PM

I ask you, what’s wrong with that?  Why shouldn’t he have done what he did? So he killed a few million people - he had a great life.

Notice he’s asking us ... not God. I feel special.

You are.  As are we.  God is usually less than clear in his communications.

 
 
can zen
 
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can zen
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17 August 2010 15:03
 
Ecurb Noselrub - 16 August 2010 11:12 PM

Joseph Stalin lived to be 74 years old, ruled the Soviet Union for about 30 years, ate and drank what he wanted, had sex with whom he wanted, went where he wanted, did what he wanted, enjoyed American Western movies when he wanted at his dacha, killed whom he wanted, tortured whom he wanted, and finally died like the rest of us will - but he only suffered about 4 days after a stroke. I ask you, what’s wrong with that?  Why shouldn’t he have done what he did? So he killed a few million people - he had a great life.

The list of things “wrong with Joseph Stalin” is obvious to any person with even a smidgen of ethical standards, but maybe that question from Bruce is entirely redundant.  Stalin was obviously completely self-centered and self-absorbed, and was perhaps a psychopath or a sociopath . . . there are people like this throughout human history and probably quite a few among us today.  They can be religious or not, theistic or not.  (It should be noted that Stalin, like Hitler, probably never actually (personally) killed anyone and certainly did not kill “a few million people.”) 

The question should be, I think, how does a society allow or even promote a person of this sort of character to become their supreme leader?  What is wrong with the general attitude of the population and the collective attitude of those in positions of power that bring a Stalin (or even a GW Bush) to the pinnacle of power?  It’s easy to blame our collective moral degeneracy on a single individual, but there’s something deeply rotten in the social fabric or in society’s ethical standards that allow these atrocious people unlimited access to political power?

Bob

[ Edited: 17 August 2010 15:31 by can zen]
 
 
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17 August 2010 15:10
 
Ecurb Noselrub - 16 August 2010 11:12 PM

Joseph Stalin lived to be 74 years old, ruled the Soviet Union for about 30 years, ate and drank what he wanted, had sex with whom he wanted, went where he wanted, did what he wanted, enjoyed American Western movies when he wanted at his dacha, killed whom he wanted, tortured whom he wanted, and finally died like the rest of us will - but he only suffered about 4 days after a stroke. I ask you, what’s wrong with that?  Why shouldn’t he have done what he did? So he killed a few million people - he had a great life.

Why did God allow his victims to suffer?  Why should all of the univese revolve around Stalin?  If his judgement/punishment were to come in the afterworld, what say you to the millions of victims here in this world?

 
 
Dennis Campbell
 
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17 August 2010 15:16
 

Bob has touched on an answer to Bruce’s question about “what’s to stop?” a Hitler, Pol Pot or Stalin.  And Bruce of all people should know this. It’s called a “Constitution,” “laws,” free and open debate; honesty in governance, democratic elections and the like.  “God” is not included.  People, not some posited god, stop them, when they can be stopped.

 
 
GAD
 
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17 August 2010 15:27
 
Dennis Campbell - 17 August 2010 01:16 PM

Bob has touched on an answer to Bruce’s question about “what’s to stop?” a Hitler, Pol Pot or Stalin.  And Bruce of all people should know this. It’s called a “Constitution,” “laws,” free and open debate; honesty in governance, democratic elections and the like.  “God” is not included.  People, not some posited god, stop them, when they can be stopped.

Those things didn’t stop Bush from getting 2 terms in office.

 
 
bigredfutbol
 
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17 August 2010 15:34
 
Ecurb Noselrub - 16 August 2010 11:12 PM

Joseph Stalin lived to be 74 years old, ruled the Soviet Union for about 30 years, ate and drank what he wanted, had sex with whom he wanted, went where he wanted, did what he wanted, enjoyed American Western movies when he wanted at his dacha, killed whom he wanted, tortured whom he wanted, and finally died like the rest of us will - but he only suffered about 4 days after a stroke. I ask you, what’s wrong with that?  Why shouldn’t he have done what he did? So he killed a few million people - he had a great life.

To answer your question, though—the reason he shouldn’t have done those terrible things is because those things are terrible.  They harmed other people.

Now, on the other hand, if there was a God and an afterlife in which he would be punished…those terrible things still would have happened to those innocent people, but Stalin would pay some personal price, after all that death and suffering was over with.  So…not seeing the advantage.

 
 
Dennis Campbell
 
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17 August 2010 15:35
 
GAD - 17 August 2010 01:27 PM
Dennis Campbell - 17 August 2010 01:16 PM

Bob has touched on an answer to Bruce’s question about “what’s to stop?” a Hitler, Pol Pot or Stalin.  And Bruce of all people should know this. It’s called a “Constitution,” “laws,” free and open debate; honesty in governance, democratic elections and the like.  “God” is not included.  People, not some posited god, stop them, when they can be stopped.

Those things didn’t stop Bush from getting 2 terms in office.

They stopped him from staying in office.  They resulted in Obama being elected.  They thwarted Prop 8.  Of course we could always try Christianity or Islam, as they work so well.

 
 
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